Greatest Serves of All Time

[okdude1992]

Originally Posted by Romismak

I haven´t found this thread before, interresting to compare best servers ever.

I can´t go to much in history, like 40s-70s hard to tell, but i think best servers ever are Goran and Ivo - hard to tell who is better who worse

I will put it in eras

90s - many big servers like Goran, Pete, Becker, Krajicek, Stich

Goran was best server among those guys, he was lefty+always got most aces

Than probably Krajicek- his 1st serve was lethal

I think Pete is overrated, sure his serve is among best ever, but simply that guy has 14 slams, he had much more than only serve, while most of this guys were limited comparing to Pete. Pete is one of best servers ever no doubt about it, but really when somebody say he is best ever - it is because they saw many matches of him and he was better after serve, on return and so on than other big servers in his era.

For example Pete´s record is pretty bad vs Krajicek and i believe it is because Krajicek just had bigger serve than Pete and outserved him in their matches.

So for 90s i say best server Goran.

In last decade we had Roddick, Karlovic, Isner, Johansson, now Raonic - who will be among best servers for sure

Among those guys Roddick has-had most groundgame.

So his numbers are better thanks to this.

Karlovic´s 1st serve is i believe most dangerous weapon in tennis history, at his serving peak he had accuracy, speed and high FS% - what is also thanks to his height.

His 2nd serve is average, but 1st best ever.

Isner-high 1st serve%, maybe best 2nd serve ever

So i believe from this era Karlovic at his peak is best server

So i say Goran -IVo hard to tell, one was lefty, played in era with quicker grass, carpet and generally besides clay faster conditions vs many big servers

another guy played in this era, his groundgame is probably worst among all big servers on that list and still his numbers are best or 2nd best in many categories.

Look on ATP website there is list since 1990 stats - service games won, 1st serve points won, aces and so on- Ivo is up there best or 2nd best almost in everything with such limited game.

I like your list for current/recent guys. Said it before, and i'll say it again. Ivo Karlovic. Worst overall game, playing in an era where players return better than ever, slower conditions than before. Yet he still has the best stats.

[NonP]

Originally Posted by okdude1992

I like your list for current/recent guys. Said it before, and i'll say it again. Ivo Karlovic. Worst overall game, playing in an era where players return better than ever, slower conditions than before. Yet he still has the best stats.

I've addressed these talking points before (in fact just earlier today most recently), and since you seem to like stats here are a few that should at the very least challenge the conventional punditry.

First, if today's players were indeed returning better than ever and the conditions indeed so slower than before, one would expect to see servers to get broken more often. But the stats tell a different story: the top 10 servers of the 2000s actually won a higher % of service games than their 1990s predecessors, 87.1% vs. 86.0%. (I don't have the stats for the top 20 handy, but a cursory look shows hardly any difference between the two decades, and probably a little more in the latter's favor). And there's an even more telling stat: players won 90% or more of their service games only seven times in the '90s (the total number of players is 3, with only Sampras achieving the feat more than once), as opposed to a whopping 20 times in the '00s. I'd guess by my rough counts that the number of free points also favors the '00s.

In short the standard talking points aren't simply supported by the stats. The reasons for this seeming discrepancy are complex and can't be explained adequately in a few short sentences, but to summarize:

1) The "consensus" regarding the supposed slowdown of surfaces is mostly bunk (this is another big topic in its own right).
2) While it's a myth that the modern racquets help improve your maximum serve speeds significantly, they do allow you to impart more spin, which helps increase your 1st-serve percentages and also go for more freebies as well since it's easier now to hit bigger 2nd serves.
3) Today's homogenization of playing styles (which, I should emphasize, is not the same thing as homogenized conditions) has influenced the return of serve, which tends to be more conservative today and which in turn tends to benefit the top players more than their lower-ranked competitors.

And speaking of free points, you'd be quite suprised to know that Karlovic isn't head & shoulders above the other top candidates in % of unreturned serves. The # of aces is only part of the equation.

[ClassicSwede]

Pistol Pete in his prime!!!
His 1 & 2 serve was the greatest, perhaps not the most powerful server but still up there.
He could place them on a dime, Heavy serves that only a PS85 can give you
Have you ever seen a more confident server?

Sure there have been innovators that has raised the bar over the years but if I could choose to serve like any pro past/present... hands down Sampras!!

[gsuede]

I would love to see a stat how many times Sampras was broken to close out a set or a match I bet its a very small number. He was the closer

[Moose Malloy]

I counted 50 unreturned serves(14 were aces) by Isner vs Fed in Davis Cup.
131 total service points for Isner so 38% were unreturned.

of the 36 return errors he drew from Fed, 25 were bh's

[dangalak]

Pete Sampras is probably the most overrated server in history.

[scotus]

Originally Posted by dangalak

Pete Sampras is probably the most overrated server in history.

I wonder if this member was banned for saying "Pete Sampras is probably the most overrated server in history."

[6-1 6-3 6-0]

I think Nadal has a case for having one of the greatest serves of all time. At US Open 2010, he tied Andy Roddick's record of winning the title dropping serve only 5 times (was only broken until the QF against Verdasco), and at Roland Garros 2012, he was only broken once up until the final (lost his serve in the 1st round against Bolelli).

[NickJ]

Mike Sangster - who? i hear you cry....

To quote Wikipedia (so probably not 100% accurate I know) -

"Serve -
Sangster was renowned for his fast serve. His fastest serve was recorded at 154 miles per hour in 1963. This compares with the current world record of 155 mph set by Andy Roddick in a Davis Cup match against Russia in 2004. Although it was considered by many to be a world record at the time, Sangster's record remains unofficial since it was not timed with precise modern technology (Similarly, Bill Tilden had a serve timed unofficially at 163.6 mph in 1931). In order to return his serve, players had to retreat to the back of the court. In one match at the US Open, Rod Laver retreated so far back that he became entangled with the backstop netting."

He wrote a book called Cannonball Tennis! What's not to like!

[6-1 6-3 6-0]

Originally Posted by NickJ

Mike Sangster - who? i hear you cry....

To quote Wikipedia (so probably not 100% accurate I know) -

"Serve -
Sangster was renowned for his fast serve. His fastest serve was recorded at 154 miles per hour in 1963. This compares with the current world record of 155 mph set by Andy Roddick in a Davis Cup match against Russia in 2004. Although it was considered by many to be a world record at the time, Sangster's record remains unofficial since it was not timed with precise modern technology (Similarly, Bill Tilden had a serve timed unofficially at 163.6 mph in 1931). In order to return his serve, players had to retreat to the back of the court. In one match at the US Open, Rod Laver retreated so far back that he became entangled with the backstop netting."

He wrote a book called Cannonball Tennis! What's not to like!

How were those serve speeds measured? What was the range of error?

[Carsomyr]

Originally Posted by 6-1 6-3 6-0

I think Nadal has a case for having one of the greatest serves of all time. At US Open 2010, he tied Andy Roddick's record of winning the title dropping serve only 5 times (was only broken until the QF against Verdasco), and at Roland Garros 2012, he was only broken once up until the final (lost his serve in the 1st round against Bolelli).

[Paul Murphy]

Originally Posted by scotus

I wonder if this member was banned for saying "Pete Sampras is probably the most overrated server in history."

lol

10chars

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by NickJ

Mike Sangster - who? i hear you cry....

To quote Wikipedia (so probably not 100% accurate I know) -

"Serve -
Sangster was renowned for his fast serve. His fastest serve was recorded at 154 miles per hour in 1963. This compares with the current world record of 155 mph set by Andy Roddick in a Davis Cup match against Russia in 2004. Although it was considered by many to be a world record at the time, Sangster's record remains unofficial since it was not timed with precise modern technology (Similarly, Bill Tilden had a serve timed unofficially at 163.6 mph in 1931). In order to return his serve, players had to retreat to the back of the court. In one match at the US Open, Rod Laver retreated so far back that he became entangled with the backstop netting."

He wrote a book called Cannonball Tennis! What's not to like!

Mike Sangster's service motion was aesthetically a beautiful and graceful serve as well. I have a great photo of his serve at the peak of the toss. You can see the loaded up energy about to be unleashed just by the way he is set up. Unfortunately, the photo is split across the spine of the book and very difficult to copy.

[pc1]

Actually since someone mentioned Nadal perhaps someone should have a list of top lefty serves of all time.

I have a few names..Neale Fraser, Roscoe Tanner, John McEnroe, Drobny, Goran Ivanisevic, Henri Leconte, Rod Laver (an excellent serve but not quite in the class of the players listed before him), Guy Forget, John Doeg, Nadal (not a great serve in my opinion but excellent generally speaking but I have seen him falter on second serve). Many said that you never broke Doeg's serve but you just waited for him to tire. Many thought he won the US Nationals on serve along.

Lots of great serves here. Drobny has been named on some lists as having one of the all time great serves. Tanner's serve is perhaps the fastest from ball toss to the receiver's side of the court that I've ever seen. Goran's is perhaps the best lefty serve or even the best serve I've seen. It's up there with any player. Fraser's serve is legendary. John McEnroe's serve didn't have the power of some here but his spin and his disguise on the serve made it super effective.

My initial thought is that it would be either Fraser, Goran or Tanner. Probably Fraser or Goran would be the top two in my opinion.

I would tend to think the greatest lefty women's serve would be Martina Navratilova. I'll try to think of some others to place on the list.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

Mike Sangster's service motion was aesthetically a beautiful and graceful serve as well. I have a great photo of his serve at the peak of the toss. You can see the loaded up energy about to be unleashed just by the way he is set up. Unfortunately, the photo is split across the spine of the book and very difficult to copy.

Here it is. Didn't come out too bad.

[Limpinhitter]

The Alex Olmedo serve.

[RF20Lennon]

Thats only two tournaments! lets look at the average here although I think nadal has better serves than murray and better ad side and first serves than novak

[pc1]

Originally Posted by RF20Lennon

Thats only two tournaments! lets look at the average here although I think nadal has better serves than murray and better ad side and first serves than novak

Hard to say in comparing Nadal's serve with Murray's and Djokovic. Murray has improved his serve I believe recently and between the three of them only Murray has been known to serve over 140 mph so he has the fastest serve.

Nadal's second serve can be a problem at times. Verdasco in the 2009 Australian semi blasted Nadal's second serve all over the court for winner. I like Djokovic's second serve better.

But Nadal does have the edge of being a lefty.

[krosero]

Dont' know if this one's been mentioned before.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ten...-lets-fly.html

No one died out there, as Boris Becker once said, but one of Karlovic's aces thudded so hard into the scoreboard all the numbers flew off. It was like a lorry shedding its load on the M1, and took almost as long to clear up.

This took place with something like ace No 10 in a total of 51, which does not include the 102 occasions (officially described in the match statistics as "unreturned serves") when Bracciali barely got a racket on the ball.

It was a tribute to the Italian's refusal to surrender (not to mention one in the eye for national stereotypes) that it took him the thick end of 4½ hours to break the Croatian's serve, but when he eventually did, it gave him the match 6-7, 7-6, 3-6, 7-6, 12-10.

If that’s correct, then Karlovic had 153 unreturned serves altogether. The ATP has him serving on 198 points, so that would come to an unreturned rate of 77.3%.

If the 102 unreturned include the 51 aces, then the unreturned rate would be 66.7%.

Anyway Karlovic held in his first 32 service games, a great run.

[DolgoSantoro]

Originally Posted by krosero

Dont' know if this one's been mentioned before.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ten...-lets-fly.html

No one died out there, as Boris Becker once said, but one of Karlovic's aces thudded so hard into the scoreboard all the numbers flew off. It was like a lorry shedding its load on the M1, and took almost as long to clear up.

This took place with something like ace No 10 in a total of 51, which does not include the 102 occasions (officially described in the match statistics as "unreturned serves") when Bracciali barely got a racket on the ball.

It was a tribute to the Italian's refusal to surrender (not to mention one in the eye for national stereotypes) that it took him the thick end of 4½ hours to break the Croatian's serve, but when he eventually did, it gave him the match 6-7, 7-6, 3-6, 7-6, 12-10.

If that’s correct, then Karlovic had 153 unreturned serves altogether. The ATP has him serving on 198 points, so that would come to an unreturned rate of 77.3%.

If the 102 unreturned include the 51 aces, then the unreturned rate would be 66.7%.

Anyway Karlovic held in his first 32 service games, a great run.

Dang, that's pretty impressive. The article seemed needlessly critical of Karlovic though. I mean, yes he only has a serve but that article kinda ripped into him