NTRP Questions...

[NTRPolice]

The lynch mob scared the poor guy away.

He sounded like he knew what he was talking about, but the way everyone pounced on him for that one discrepancy scared him off.

I'm not saying we should sign over our houses to him, but he may have had useful things to say...

[tenniscasey]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

The lynch mob scared the poor guy away.

He sounded like he knew what he was talking about, but the way everyone pounced on him for that one discrepancy scared him off.

I'm not saying we should sign over our houses to him, but he may have had useful things to say...

No he didn't. The error we discussed on the previous page turned out to be a pretty fundamental one supported by abundant local and national evidence.

That said, I hope he comes back, because it's amusing that people are still taking him seriously as an NTRP guru.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by leaugeCO

Hello All,

I was browsing through the forum and noticed a TON of misguided/false thoughts, claims, answers, etc about NTRP. I work for the USTA as a district NTRP Coordinator and thought that I would try and help to clear up any questions that players might have. It's crazy how many players call me in my district every year with statements/rumors that they think are fact when it comes to NTRP. I'm new to this spot and don't know if there is anyone else already doing this that works with USTA, but like I said, through a quick first glance I came across a lot of false info. So with that... please feel free to ask any questions that you might have and I'll try my best to check back frequently to provide answers... with what I am allowed to tell you of course Can't provide your rating to the hundreth, kinda want to keep my job.

This is the original post, how anyone can read any ill will into this is beyond me. I hope TWTT hasn't lost a valuable source of knowledgeable information. It seems the discrepancies are due to regional anomalies. I hope LeagueCO returns and understands the vast majority here welcome him/her.

[IA-SteveB]

Reading some of the negative posts just furthers my theory that the sport of tennis has a disproportionate amount of people who are wired differently upstairs when compared to other sports.

[fightfan]

Welcome to the forums and thanks for your valuable contributions leaugeCO. Don't let a few negative feedback dissuade you from posting. There are always detractors, and typically these folk are just more vocal than supporters. That's just human nature. However, know that there may be many, many more out there who lurk or don't post often but really value your insight.

I would like to know more about benchmarking. Members of my league team have been benchmarked at different levels during different seasons. For example, if I remember correctly (big if), we made it to 3.5 sectionals once, and a bunch of us were 4.0B (the next level) the next season. Another time, I think we made it to 4.0 playoffs or districts, and then some were benchmarked at 4.0B (the same level but B) the next season. How does that work? When do you become benchmarked at the next level vs the current level? Also, do benchmarked players continue to get dynamic NTRP ratings? If so, do they take effect the following season?

Thanks again!

[Mongolmike]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

This is the original post, how anyone can read any ill will into this is beyond me. I hope TWTT hasn't lost a valuable source of knowledgeable information. It seems the discrepancies are due to regional anomalies. I hope LeagueCO returns and understands the vast majority here welcome him/her.

I agree... people are so quick to try to discredit, come on back LeagueCO, use the ignore if you need to.

[catfish]

Originally Posted by IA-SteveB

Reading some of the negative posts just furthers my theory that the sport of tennis has a disproportionate amount of people who are wired differently upstairs when compared to other sports.

I agree. I used to play quite a bit of league softball. 15-20 years ago, the softball league fees were about $40 per season. I never heard anyone complain about how expensive the fees were. I never heard anyone talking about the administration of the leagues, and no one even knew who ran the leagues. I never saw anyone get into arguments. They just showed up and played softball and enjoyed it.

I started playing tennis about 12 years ago, and couldn't believe the constant whining about how expensive the fees are.....even though they are less than $35 per season. I couldn't believe the constant complaining about league administration, and was shocked when many captains would pick up the phone and call the USTA league coordinator at the drop of a hat. They treated the league coordinator as though he was a 24/7 on call service. Then when he answered a question they'd argue with him. (That LC is long gone now. I heard he quit tennis altogether and won't pick up a racquet anymore.)

As soon as I saw the OP's post I knew he'd get blasted by people trying to discredit him. I also noticed that a lot of the questions posted here can be answered by looking at the USTA national website, or most section websites. Very typical for tennis. Hardly anyone reads information made available to them.....they just ask questions.

[beernutz]

Oh please. I count 21 people besides the OP who have posted in this thread and it looks like only two that I can see who criticized or called his or her authenticity into question (my guess is the OP is a woman fwiw) and those comments looked to be pretty mild to me.

I could say more on the subject but I'll drop it now. I wouldn't want Tom or any others of you who are so deeply offended at the OPs treatment to require hospitalization.

[Angle Queen]

I'll jump in...shenanigans aside...I'm inclined to believe the intentions are good.

So still, leaugeCO, here are my questions to you as an LC and without you having to give any specifics:

• how do you go about setting up the flights/leagues (I ask because we have two different philosophies in our area: some who purposely seek to distribute the slots while others have a "blind draw" approach)
• what's the weirdest "grievance"/complaint you've had to deal with
• what's the most common complaint you have to deal with
• do you actually play yourself
• what's the main thing you wish just regular players "knew" about how USTA works
• if you were "in charge" of everything, what's the first thing you would change
• if you could wave a magic wand over the tennis-playing population, what would you wish for
• if you could wave a magic wand over the general population, what tennis-related thing would you wish for, and
• finally, what motivates you to do what you do...i.e. being an LC

My hat's off to you for being an LC and being willing to post here. Like tennis tom, I tend to think your intentions are good (dare I say great), but some venerable TT posters have called a few things out. All good, I say. Just be careful in making gross declarations since USTA seems to be anything but consistent ATM. Hang with us, for the moment. We can be an entertaining bunch.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

• how do you go about setting up the flights/leagues (I ask because we have two different philosophies in our area: some who purposely seek to distribute the slots while others have a "blind draw" approach)
• what's the weirdest "grievance"/complaint you've had to deal with
• what's the most common complaint you have to deal with
• do you actually play yourself
• what's the main thing you wish just regular players "knew" about how USTA works
• if you were "in charge" of everything, what's the first thing you would change
• if you could wave a magic wand over the tennis-playing population, what would you wish for
• if you could wave a magic wand over the general population, what tennis-related thing would you wish for, and
• finally, what motivates you to do what you do...i.e. being an LC

Those are good questions Angle Queen, I'd like to see the answers to them too! You compose a very nice post too, kudos.

Originally Posted by catfish

I started playing tennis about 12 years ago, and couldn't believe the constant whining about how expensive the fees are.....even though they are less than $35 per season.

Agreed, there's a lot of cheapskates playing tennis! I don't get it, the price of balls hasn't increased since I started playing fifty years ago, you can get them on sale for $1.99. I always have a new can in my bag and pull it out when I get to the court. There was an "old pro" this week in our rec group who is notorious for never opening a can. He proudly announces he just bought a case of Penns at
Costco. So we ask him to open a can, he says they're in the trunk of his car (a new Mercedes). We said we can wait 'til he gets them. I love it when they say they have a can--but it's in the trunk--or under their desk at work.

Originally Posted by beernutz

...those comments looked to be pretty mild to me.

I could say more on the subject but I'll drop it now. I wouldn't want Tom or any others of you who are so deeply offended at the OPs treatment to require hospitalization.

How is one mildly ungracious? Beernutz, feel free to expand on the topic, my Blue Cross is paid-up.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by tenniscasey

No he didn't. The error we discussed on the previous page turned out to be a pretty fundamental one supported by abundant local and national evidence.

That said, I hope he comes back, because it's amusing that people are still taking him seriously as an NTRP guru.

It's hard to follow what you are referring to, but there were two possible things - that tournament results count (which they can or not depending on the section) or that 6-0 6-0 matches count (which they do but didn't in the past). Both of these things are correct, and if you don't believe it, then you are the one who is wrong.

[tenniscasey]

Deleted, pointless.

[corbind]

I hope the LeagueCO comes back...that list of questions is anxious.

[tennis tom]

I see that most of the new questions appearing this morning could have probably been answered by LeagueCO if he/she were still around--but a few nattering nabobs of negativity may have run him/her off. I hope LCO just spent the weekend playing tennis or doing his/her job at a tournament and will be back. I feel LCO is made of tougher mettle then some give him/her credit for and will survive the slings and arrows that are the norm of AlGorerhythm Gore's www.com. LCO is probably just doing research with some Supreme Court Clerks to get more definitive answers from prior rulings in lower district offices. I just hope he/she isn't waiting for input from the 9th Circuit, as they are likely conferencing at some howling at the moon ceremony, up in the Emerald Triangle.

[North]

Originally Posted by catfish

I agree. I used to play quite a bit of league softball. 15-20 years ago, the softball league fees were about $40 per season. I never heard anyone complain about how expensive the fees were. I never heard anyone talking about the administration of the leagues, and no one even knew who ran the leagues. I never saw anyone get into arguments. They just showed up and played softball and enjoyed it.

Lol. Yeah, I've played baseball and rugby in leagues. Everyone showed up on time - you would just adjust your schedule. And no one ever whined about having to always play by all the rules, whether there was a ref/umpire present or not.

[goober]

Originally Posted by catfish

I agree. I used to play quite a bit of league softball. 15-20 years ago, the softball league fees were about $40 per season. I never heard anyone complain about how expensive the fees were. I never heard anyone talking about the administration of the leagues, and no one even knew who ran the leagues. I never saw anyone get into arguments. They just showed up and played softball and enjoyed it.

I started playing tennis about 12 years ago, and couldn't believe the constant whining about how expensive the fees are.....even though they are less than $35 per season.
.

I haven't seen alot of whining about fees around here, but I wouldn't say the costs are trivial. Our court fees+ USTA membership+ league fees to play on one team for fall and spring seasons was $300-350. I am sure there are teams which play in indoor courts or at country clubs that pay much more. If you play mulitple teams it can really add up. I have definitely had people not join the team that couldn't afford it or people I basically had to subsidize for them to play. If it were just $40 and that was it, yeah we would have nobody complaining about it.

[ronray43]

League20, your overview does highlight one of the recurring issues with NTRP. The winners are supposed to win, and the losers are supposed to lose, and because NTRP does not take into account wins or losses, the winners continue to win, and the losers continue to lose. While some movement does occur for newer players, the vast majority of us are stuck where we are, which is great for the winners and not so great for the losers.

Since every advancement in USTA league play is based on win-loss record vice how close a particular match scored compared to the NTRP prediction, you'd think wins and losses would be factored into the formula.

Why is USTA so opposed to factoring win/loss into the algorithm? I'm not saying NTRP should be determined soley by win-loss record, but win-loss record should be a part of the computation.

Thanks,
Ron

[tenniscasey]

Originally Posted by leaugeCO

1) I called myself out on that typo, everyone is quick to troll spelling online

2) that's completely fine be me, I don't need your approval. Not sure why anyone would pose as a USTA employee to provide false answers for LEAGUE tennis though.

Clearly leaugeCO has a thick skin. I'm sure they'll come back.

[schmke]

Originally Posted by Setmatch45

I have a more specific question this year I went

7-0 regular season
2-0 in districts
1-1 in sectionals

I lost to the top doubles teams 6-3,7-5 they moved on to nationals.

Early start I was not moved up. Why is that?

As mentioned earlier in this thread, it isn't winning/losing that determines your rating, but the opponents rating and the score of the match. If you play weak opponents and/or win very closely (or perhaps even lose more games than you win), your rating can go down even with a win.

Also, it depends when early start ratings are calculated and what is included in them. In the PNW for example, they generally come out in June and only include adult results through local playoffs but no sectional/national results nor results from another summer league we have.


http://computerratings.blogspot.com/search/label/tennis

[schmke]

Originally Posted by leaugeCO

They did not count in the past. But can assure you that nation wide they count. That is not something sections have leeway on

So I'm curious how 6-0,6-0 matches count now. My understanding of the thought process was that such matches couldn't tell you much about how the players compare, e.g. if a 4.0 is supposed to be a 3.5 6-0,6-0, then how does one fairly come up with a match rating for the match? It is possible that the higher rated player could only have their rating drop and the lower rated player rise if the gap between them is large enough. But if someone beats a player with a very similar rating 6-0,6-0 you'd want that to count.

My thought has always been that a 6-0,6-0 match should count if the gap between the players is small enough that the expected score is closer than 6-0,6-0 but not count otherwise. So is this what is being done now?

Thanks