Merrell Barefoot Run Road Glove

[jrs]

Originally Posted by Vlad_C

Why wear shoes at all?
Go barefoot, like a real man.

Too much man...doesn't even need a tennis court!

[jrs]

Originally Posted by 6LOVE

No adjustments (except for the PPT foam liner for extra cushioning).

Barefoot Road Gloves are made for road running. They have a rubber toe bumper and durable Vibram sole (TC-1 rubber).

I've been using them on hard courts for 2 weeks now and they are holding up as well as most tennis shoes.

What are PPT foam liner - where can you buy these?
My concern are the sides - since Tennis involves a lot side to side movement will the top separate from the sides?
Also what style of tennis do you play? Aggressive, competitive type or social type tennis?

My current tennis shoe is on it's last leg - I was thinking about going the minimalist route - but all the shoes look like they are designed for running and not side to side movement - would like to see reinforcements on the side where top and the soles meet.

[hcb0804]

Can you say "plantar fascitis"?......sure you can!

[Bowtiesarecool]

I would love for someone to design a minimalist shoe with a 6 month garauntee for the sole. THAT would be worth something.

[jrs]

Originally Posted by hcb0804

Can you say "plantar fascitis"?......sure you can!

The argument minimalist shoe supporters are making is that shoe cause this condition.

[NJ1]

Originally Posted by jrs

The argument minimalist shoe supporters are making is that shoe cause this condition.

But all the pros play in proper "high heeled" tennis shoes. I understand the endorsement argument for clothes, but let's face it, they wouldn't wear something that endangered their career.

Anyhow, tennis shoes are great for my ankles, knees and feet but if minimalist shoes work for others then good for them.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by hcb0804

Can you say "plantar fascitis"?......sure you can!

I cured my PF by going barefoot a lot. My feet noticeably strengthened and I haven't had any other problems.

The injuries you hear about from running barefoot are usually heel bruising (from heel striking with bare feet), stress fractures (usually front of foot), and calve pulls (those high heels do seem to shorten the muscle).

You can't just take off your shoes and try to move the same way without getting injured. To be successful you have to strengthen the feet and move differently.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by NJ1

But all the pros play in proper "high heeled" tennis shoes. I understand the endorsement argument for clothes, but let's face it, they wouldn't wear something that endangered their career.

Anyhow, tennis shoes are great for my ankles, knees and feet but if minimalist shoes work for others then good for them.

Most of the top professionals play in shoes that they are paid to wear. There's no reason to assume that these shoes are optimal.

I would guess if you asked them, most pros wouldn't be able to tell you the heel elevation of their shoes. I would also guess that some of the top pros have the shoes altered to fit better (there are rumors of using custom lasts), and the lower level pros most likely use a shoe they subjectively find comfortable and believe helps them perform.

[Avles]

Originally Posted by 6LOVE

Of course, keep in mind that these Kevlar-plated, titanium-reinforced shoes are a relatively modern invention. The tennis shoes we wore back in the day (Fred Perrys, Jack Purcells, Tretorn whatevs) were as flimsy as our running shoes. I don't remember many bloody feet though.

This is what puzzles me about the claims that not using chunky tennis shoes will inevitably lead to catastrophic foot and ankle injury.

I look at the pictures of players from the 60s and even 70s and I see shoes that look downright flimsy. So why wasn't everybody destroying their feet and ankles back in the day?

I know the game as a whole is more athletic now, but are many rec players really playing a more athletically taxing game than the pros of yesteryear?

[NJ1]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

Most of the top professionals play in shoes that they are paid to wear. There's no reason to assume that these shoes are optimal.

I would guess if you asked them, most pros wouldn't be able to tell you the heel elevation of their shoes. I would also guess that some of the top pros have the shoes altered to fit better (there are rumors of using custom lasts), and the lower level pros most likely use a shoe they subjectively find comfortable and believe helps them perform.

I, and everyone else already know the bolded since we've all said it before. But you honestly believe the pros would rather have flat heeled shoes? If they did all the top guys would play in them and still get paid. It's also more than rumors that a few of the top guys have custom shoes- it's fact. Murray for instance still uses the retail B5 sole pattern for hard courts as he's used to how it stops and goes. But they're clearly not playing in Merrell Glove profile shoes though- and the claims the higher shoes increase injury risk just don't stack up against guys who make their living from playing the game and can obviously control the style of shoe they wear.

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by NJ1

I, and everyone else already know the bolded since we've all said it before. But you honestly believe the pros would rather have flat heeled shoes? If they did all the top guys would play in them and still get paid. It's also more than rumors that a few of the top guys have custom shoes- it's fact. Murray for instance still uses the retail B5 sole pattern for hard courts as he's used to how it stops and goes. But they're clearly not playing in Merrell Glove profile shoes though- and the claims the higher shoes increase injury risk just don't stack up against guys who make their living from playing the game and can obviously control the style of shoe they wear.

Even if the shoes seem to have a flat heel, Shirley most have custom inserts possibly with a heel lift added.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by NJ1

But you honestly believe the pros would rather have flat heeled shoes? If they did all the top guys would play in them and still get paid.

I honestly believe that the pros don't think about shoes much at all beyond liking the way they fit and thinking they have decent traction. If you've ever been around high level athletes, you'll know most aren't exactly engineers or research kineseologists. Like most of us, they probably rely on personal experience and advice from coaches and companies.

Murray for instance still uses the retail B5 sole pattern for hard courts as he's used to how it stops and goes.

Murray also has ankle problems and wears braces on both ankles (clearly visible during his US Open final), so the B5s aren't keeping him from rolling over on his ankles.

But they're clearly not playing in Merrell Glove profile shoes though- and the claims the higher shoes increase injury risk just don't stack up against guys who make their living from playing the game and can obviously control the style of shoe they wear.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Merrell Glove shoes are particularly good tennis shoes. However, higher stack heights on shoes do reduce stability. If you wear a high stack height you can shove more outsole durability and cushioning under the foot but it doesn't help stability.

My guess would be that shoes without cushioning are better for stability but reduce performance of certain movements because you can't slam your heel into the ground as hard before bruising it. I believe that pros are actually trading off performance in one area for loss of stability.

My prediction is that as materials continue to improve over the next decade, shoes will get both lighter and lower to the ground.

Also, I think zero-drop tennis shoes will be available because the raised heel seems to be an affectation adopted from running shoes, and even with running shoes, race spikes and flats tend not to have the downward slope of jogging shoes.

[Povl Carstensen]

In all peacefullnes I would like to add that it is rather new thing, this minimal shoe development (allthough it is also partly throwback), so many players pro and others have probably not tried it, and therefore dont know what its merits are. When I hear about players with foot, knee, back and hip problems, I cant help wondering whether they are partly caused by their footwear.

[Avles]

I think I've posted this before somewhere here, but I don't really understand why tennis shoes and futsal shoes look so different.

Soccer players would seem to require at least as much support and lateral stability as tennis players, but tennis shoes tend to be a lot chunkier and have higher heels. They also seem to be more expensive on the whole...

Indoor soccer shoe examples:

Diadora Forza

Adidas F10

Would wearing something like this be a problem for most tennis players?

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by Avles

I think I've posted this before somewhere here, but I don't really understand why tennis shoes and futsal shoes look so different.

Soccer players would seem to require at least as much support and lateral stability as tennis players, but tennis shoes tend to be a lot chunkier and have higher heels. They also seem to be more expensive on the whole...

Would wearing something like this be a problem for most tennis players?

I think you ask a reasonable question. Indoor soccer shoes don't need the outsole durability of a tennis shoe. Perhaps they also don't need as much cushioning as a shoe designed for a hard court. But the overall design doesn't need to be much different, though the tennis shoes wouldn't need the contact surface on top of the foot designed for guiding the ball.

My ideal tennis shoe would have zero drop, a low level stack height, a wide toe-box (that's the way my feet are shaped), and a durable outsole with a toe guard. In many respects, something like an indoor soccer shoe with more ventilation.

I've considered getting some indoor soccer shoes for tennis, but I haven't tried enough of them. The few that I've tried have been too narrow for me.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by 6LOVE

I don't mean to be rude, because I know you mean well, but I was hoping this thread would not turn into a yet another debate between ill-informed alarmists and those of us who understand the pros and cons of "zero-drop" footwear.

Thanks for your concern, but I actually consult closely with my podiatrist because I (like too many of us) have suffered through some painful bouts of plantar fasciitis. Some minimalist shoes do not have enough cushioning to protect the tendons, which is why I add that layer of PPT foam padding.

So if you don't like minimalist footwear, please just leave us on our own. Thanks.

How does the foam padding make them minimalist shoes? I thought one of the major problems with "traditional" running shoes was too much padding. Aren't you basically taking a minimalst shoe and converting it back to a traditional shoe?

Could you spend a few minutes and educate us on the minimalist footwear scene?

For example:

1) What did your podiatrist tell you?

2) Do you feel your injuries (plantar fascitis, etc) were caused by the wrong footwear? Incorrect running style? Why do you believe what you believe.

3) What shoes were you wearing before the minimalist shoes? Why did you choose the shoes you did?

4) What types of foot problems are minimalist tennis shoes aimed to cure?

5) Etc.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you seem very informed on the minimalist running scene, so I'd like to pick your brain a bit.

[Povl Carstensen]

There is fashion in the functionality/design. Often along the lines of "more is better". The new model has to look more hightec than the previous. Perhaps we are at the end of this line.
That the tennis shoe is not for kicking with, allows the designers to make it bigger and more clunky.

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by r2473

5) Etc.

Great question.
Heres a couple of threads you could read up on r2473:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=329051
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=413535

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by r2473

How does the foam padding make them minimalist shoes? I thought one of the major problems with "traditional" running shoes was too much padding. Aren't you basically taking a minimalst shoe and converting it back to a traditional shoe?

Minimalist shoes can have insoles and still be zero drop, and far more close to the ground than traditional shoes. So its not a question of "all padding is bad", more "too much padding is bad", a bit like with carbohydrates.

[r2473]

I really wasn't looking to start an argument.

I think any shoe that performs the function well and doesn't cause injury is the right shoe for you. If minimalist works, I'm all for it.

I was just curious if the OP (or you Povl) could tell me why it works for you.

Afterall, if you are going to recommend others try something "different", I think you should be able to make a strong case as to why they should.

In my case, I'd wager I've logged many 100's of road mile more than both yourself and the OP combined. I found the shoe for me 20 years ago (I know my specs). I had some HORRIBLE running shoes in the past (and they all had too much cushioning rendering them unstable and/or pronation/supination support, which doesn't suit my running gait).

With tennis shoes, I've had good and bad ones. I know what I like and pretty much why I like it too.

I think shoes make a BIG difference in running. I don't notice it so much in tennis. But I have had bad tennis shoes where my feet would hurt a bit after I was done. But never anything major.

For me, this type of thing is best decided by each individual by trial and error. You'll know when you have the "right" shoe. Then simply take down the specs and buy "that shoe" in the future (no matter what company makes it).