Brad Baughman

[jmnk]

Originally Posted by mikej

pretty typical for the juniors to do well in this event - usually even better than this year it seems - quoting from the document posted top of page 18:

"Last year the USTA juniors won five of eight matches on Day 1 and two years ago, led by Jack Sock, the squad went 6-2. Also last year, the USTA had two players (Connor Farren and Alexios Halebian) win their respective round-robin pools and advance to the quarterfinals with both winning one round in the Shootout before falling in the semifinals by 10-7 scores.

Two years ago, Halebian also won his pool, as did Mitchell Frank but both were beaten in the first or quarterfinal Shootout round."

you're putting highly ranked juniors against guys that aren't highly ranked college tennis players:
- best texas player (who DB just beat) finished last year #80 ITA singles rankings
- best cal player (ben mclachlan) finished last year #35 ITA singles rankings
- no georgia player in this event was ranked end of last year in singles
- no illinois player in this event was ranked end of last year in singles
- no stanford player in this event was ranked end of last year in singles
- no harvard player in this event was ranked end of last year in singles

so, even without speculating on how much these guys care about their results in this exhibition-type event that really just seems to eat up more of their time if they get out of the round-robin (yes, one guy does get a wild card for winning it, but as you can see above with their college success, none of them are going to do much with that wild card) - even trying their hardest during the college season last year these guys aren't exactly world-beaters

someone feel free to check my quick (and possible sloppy, but i doubt it) Ctrl-F work on the final 125 ranked singles players from last year:
http://www.itatennis.com/AwardsAndRa...s_-_June_6.htm

thanks for a response.
few thoughts. Disclaimer: i have minimal to no knowledge about college tennis.
1. I have hard time believing these college players do not care. I mean it can't look or feel good when you are playing singles for major D1 team, and lose to a junior that is few years younger. Ok, these results do not count for any standings - but this is an annual event, with a concrete award (wild card) on the line. and you are also playing against fellow college players.
2. I can see that these players are perhaps not going to light the tennis world on fire. So beating them may or may not mean anything wrt to playing pro on tour. But they do play D1. they got scholarships. why wouldn't a coach offered a scholarship to a junior that, while still being younger and a room for improvement, is already beating a player he has on a team right now?

[mikej]

Originally Posted by jmnk

thanks for a response.
few thoughts. Disclaimer: i have minimal to no knowledge about college tennis.
1. I have hard time believing these college players do not care. I mean it can't look or feel good when you are playing singles for major D1 team, and lose to a junior that is few years younger. Ok, these results do not count for any standings - but this is an annual event, with a concrete award (wild card) on the line. and you are also playing against fellow college players.
2. I can see that these players are perhaps not going to light the tennis world on fire. So beating them may or may not mean anything wrt to playing pro on tour. But they do play D1. they got scholarships. why wouldn't a coach offered a scholarship to a junior that, while still being younger and a room for improvement, is already beating a player he has on a team right now?

1. yeah, above (many posts ago, by now) i basically agreed that they certainly don't want to lose to these juniors - DB earned his win - they may not be fighting like heck like they would in a dual match vs a rival, but they're not going out to lose - but i do agree when tball said not much on the line for them in this event (again, i don't think the WC matters to them, they won't win matches and jumpstart an ATP career with it, they're not at that level)

2. some of these guys have D1 scholarships, some do not certainly (harvard guys i don't believe have athletic scholarships, and some of the other guys i'm sure are not getting full money, since there are only 4.5 scholarships per team) - but yes i think DB would be in great position for some money from texas or cal if his dad were not a barrier - that's a different ballgame from the coaches at the very top that i keep listing (peter smith, boland, diaz) - these guys have their pick of the best of the best nationally and internationally, and they only need 1-2 a year - my opinion is that DB is hardly on their radar with his unimpressive or nonexistent results in tournies like orange bowl, eddie herr, the zoo, major ITFs, etc

[jmnk]

Originally Posted by mikej

1. yeah, above (many posts ago, by now) i basically agreed that they certainly don't want to lose to these juniors - DB earned his win - they may not be fighting like heck like they would in a dual match vs a rival, but they're not going out to lose - but i do agree when tball said not much on the line for them in this event (again, i don't think the WC matters to them, they won't win matches and jumpstart an ATP career with it, they're not at that level)

2. some of these guys have D1 scholarships, some do not certainly (harvard guys i don't believe have athletic scholarships, and some of the other guys i'm sure are not getting full money, since there are only 4.5 scholarships per team) - but yes i think DB would be in great position for some money from texas or cal if his dad were not a barrier - that's a different ballgame from the coaches at the very top that i keep listing (peter smith, boland, diaz) - these guys have their pick of the best of the best nationally and internationally, and they only need 1-2 a year - my opinion is that DB is hardly on their radar with his unimpressive or nonexistent results in tournies like orange bowl, eddie herr, the zoo, major ITFs, etc

I see, thanks.

[mikej]

Originally Posted by jmnk

I see, thanks.

no problem, and i don't have all the answers either obviously, just my thoughts after having a fair amount of exposure to how a highly ranked D1 team runs during my time in college

if brian boland pops on here and tells me he's offering DB a scholarship, i'll promptly sit down and shut up

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by mikej

my opinion is that DB is hardly on their radar with his unimpressive or nonexistent results in tournies like orange bowl, eddie herr, the zoo, major ITFs, etc

I would think that their radar goes pretty deep in the field, and a kid as big a DB would be on it for future potential - even if not for present results.
Whether college tennis is best (Isner) or going straight to the pros (Querry) would be best will be decided by his results and how quickly he grows into his body. We'll see where he is a 18 and whether he's winning junior Slam tournaments. Right now, he seems to be on track for a level below at that age because of his size. If he keeps improving into his 20's as he fills into his body (maybe at college) he might have a good shot at getting to be an ATP player. In the great mass of high-level junior players, picking out which one is going to make it would be tough, but I'd give a big advantage to the guy who is 6'5".

[mikej]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

I would think that their radar goes pretty deep in the field, and a kid as big a DB would be on it for future potential - even if not for present results.

yeah, maybe, again i could be wrong, don't know any of those three coaches personally, just know the type of prospects they generally are landing (and here, i'm talking about the top guys they are landing, aka the ones that are getting a big chunk of that 4.5 scholarships per team...not the third recruit they pull down in a given year that sits at the bottom of the lineup or on the bench without an athletic scholarship...something tells me no1coach wouldn't be interested in that kind of situation)

Originally Posted by NLBwell

In the great mass of high-level junior players, picking out which one is going to make it would be tough, but I'd give a big advantage to the guy who is 6'5".

and i'd give a big advantage to guys like peliwo, rubin, and kozlov that have demonstrated bigtime results consistently on the biggest stages of junior tennis...but to each his own...you could end up being right

[coaching32yrs]

Originally Posted by mikej

1. yeah, above (many posts ago, by now) i basically agreed that they certainly don't want to lose to these juniors - DB earned his win - they may not be fighting like heck like they would in a dual match vs a rival, but they're not going out to lose - but i do agree when tball said not much on the line for them in this event (again, i don't think the WC matters to them, they won't win matches and jumpstart an ATP career with it, they're not at that level)

2. some of these guys have D1 scholarships, some do not certainly (harvard guys i don't believe have athletic scholarships, and some of the other guys i'm sure are not getting full money, since there are only 4.5 scholarships per team) - but yes i think DB would be in great position for some money from texas or cal if his dad were not a barrier - that's a different ballgame from the coaches at the very top that i keep listing (peter smith, boland, diaz) - these guys have their pick of the best of the best nationally and internationally, and they only need 1-2 a year - my opinion is that DB is hardly on their radar with his unimpressive or nonexistent results in tournies like orange bowl, eddie herr, the zoo, major ITFs, etc

I have some experience in Campus Showdowns where juniors go agnst college players. At an Ivy Showdown 2 years back a junior won the title. The Ivy team had 2 blue chips, one was ITA top 100. The junior now playing mid D3 tennis. It's a weird dynamic. The match means nothing to the college guys, everything to the juniors. I understand the dynamics of Napa may be different. As the parent of a college player I can tell you that they don't always want to travel to the fall tournaments. You think the Harvard guys wanted to fly to Napa for the weekend and miss class?

[tball2day]

................................

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

I have some experience in Campus Showdowns where juniors go agnst college players. At an Ivy Showdown 2 years back a junior won the title. The Ivy team had 2 blue chips, one was ITA top 100. The junior now playing mid D3 tennis. It's a weird dynamic. The match means nothing to the college guys, everything to the juniors. I understand the dynamics of Napa may be different. As the parent of a college player I can tell you that they don't always want to travel to the fall tournaments. You think the Harvard guys wanted to fly to Napa for the weekend and miss class?

Guess were on the same page had my player there for to reasons work on his serve motion "little tweak" and practice hits . So overall we accomplished what we were after ,in other words my player was not giving it his all , thats to bad those D1 guys had a 16 yr old half-hearted into his matches, with his low standard and their low standard must have been some ugly tennis?

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by tball2day

Thank you coach32 and the dymanics aren't different. If it wasn't for you, Mike J and a couple others, one could go insane on this forum. Cal coach started this Napa thing, his guys get practice in his backyard, and other teams commit to it for the practice of it, to keep good favor, or trade home field advantage in scheduling, etc. This thing has been around just a few years, and I can tell you the college guys go "ugh" when they learn they are stuck playing it. Even for the teams located closer than Harvard - it's an obiligation, not something they want to do. Agree no one wants to lose, but mostly a lot don't want to play this event. College coaches will give their players parameters - can't hit "such and such a shot" or you have to do "x" twice before you can hit a winner, it is a practice match. So ya, sure they get frustrated playing especially when they can't always play their game. It's just a training session for them. And ya, the Harvard guys don't want to be there, nor do the other players.

Thats awesome cause I told my player to use a one hander every other game which he did to make it more of a challenge so thats pretty cool those coaches had their players at a disadvantage and so did I so that must have created some serious challenges.

[tball2day]

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[TCF]

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[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by TCF

By the way mikej and freak4tennis are bringing some knowledge about the realities of futures, etc. Sounds like he has talked to some former top juniors who went for it like I have talked to. It is almost impossible to explain how brutal that route is compared to a prodigy who bursts right up the rankings due to scary talent.

The back and even the side doors to the top 80 money is truly mind blowing. The lower ranked guys have to compete with not only the skill of the higher ranked players, but they have to do it while bone tired, banged up, traveling economy coach with screaming babies, and staying in bad motels with drunken party goers coming home at all hours....while missing home and dreaming of girls all the time with the self doubts that creep in.

"""banged up, traveling economy coach with screaming babies, and staying in bad motels with drunken party goers coming home at all hours....while missing home and dreaming of girls all the time with the self doubts that creep in."""

have not been to 1 hotel that I have dealt with party goers all hrs , "Oh wait I am bone tired I wouldn't hear them sleeping like a rock!" As for the screaming babies on the flight the Dre Beat headphones have sound reduction can't hear those babies just soft music helping me to sleep on my flight , The only self doubt comes from people like you who do not believe in America , I read your type a mile away with all that Hope and Change!!

I just thought your guarantee on how bad it is , is coming from kids that were raised getting every thing their way and even though mom and pop has handed them everything they know what it takes to make it on the tour and know that the spoiled one will have to travel coach on this experiment of learning what mom and pop already know !!

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by TCF

Hey numberonecoach....my girl turned 8 today. Heck of a party!

I did not read all the posts, but sounds like your player had a nice hit with the college boys. Onward and upward.

Happy Bday to her but TCF your post and what happens is a bit inflated.

[mikej]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

have not been to 1 hotel that I have dealt with party goers all hrs , "Oh wait I am bone tired I wouldn't hear them sleeping like a rock!" As for the screaming babies on the flight the Dre Beat headphones have sound reduction can't hear those babies just soft music helping me to sleep on my flight , The only self doubt comes from people like you who do not believe in America , I read your type a mile away with all that Hope and Change!!

I just thought your guarantee on how bad it is , is coming from kids that were raised getting every thing their way

maybe, just maybe, he was talking about the things you will face on the grind of the futures circuit traveling around to a lot of crummy locations in different countries chasing points - not things you've already experienced in nice US locations like kalamazoo, NYC, napa

otherwise it was a good response to TCF - you know, besides missing the entire point of his post because it went above your head

then again, DB may shoot right to the top and the nice atp events and never have to deal with that lifestyle

[mikej]

just as an example of a former NCAA champion (and former junior grand slam semifinalist and finalist) grinding it out nowadays:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...tton.aspx?t=pa

he spent the first half of this year chasing points throughout china, canada, and mexico before starting the US futures swing

i'm guessing some of those locations he played in you would get your beats headphones jacked

edit - take a look at the prize money also - some tournies like Mexico F5 he wins three main draw matches and gets sent home with less than $500 - take a guess at how much he was willing to spend on nice living arrangements during that week? probably not a Hilton

[mikej]

my personal favorite from that player record, however, is the sacramento futures

has the week of his life taking down the title while beating guys like lajola, meister, and damado..............and walks away with less than 2K before expenses......this is the kind of stuff pro athletes in other sports can't imagine

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by mikej

just as an example of a former NCAA champion (and former junior grand slam semifinalist and finalist) grinding it out nowadays:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...tton.aspx?t=pa

he spent the first half of this year chasing points throughout china, canada, and mexico before starting the US futures swing

i'm guessing some of those locations he played in you would get your beats headphones jacked

edit - take a look at the prize money also - some tournies like Mexico F5 he wins three main draw matches and gets sent home with less than $500 - take a guess at how much he was willing to spend on nice living arrangements during that week? probably not a Hilton

I could tell you much about this player but I wont , you should hear what those that know him well say but this guy has the talent no doubt !

[mikej]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

I could tell you much about this player but I wont , you should hear what those that know him well say but this guy has the talent no doubt !

i could tell you a handful of second-hand stories about him as well - i'm only using him as an example of the grind of the futures circuit and the locations you have to travel to in order to get points

[mikej]

one thing i will give him credit for, however, is maintaining a blog somewhat this year - check out the practice balls you had to put down a deposit for at one of the futures in mexico (picture a third of the way down the page) -

http://devinbritton.com/blog?page=4

not all glamorous on tour, it seems