Lesser Known Tennis Rules

[Fusker]

Originally Posted by Big_Dangerous

It doesn't say you have to offer an opinion or that if you think it's out you have to say anything. Also, the point is that when you are across the net you really don't have the best vantage point to make a call. There have been plenty of times where I've thought shots I hit were in, and yet were called out, especially along the baseline.

13. Player calls own shots out. With the exception of the first serve, a player
should call out the player’s own shots if the player clearly sees the ball out regardless of whether requested to do so by an opponent. The prime objective in making calls is accuracy. All players should cooperate to attain this objective.

As far as vantage point goes, most players would only ask for help if the opponent clearly has a better view. For example, you hit a volley crosscourt - I scramble and rip a crosscourt passing shot attempt that in the process pulls me further off the court. You get there and bunt a volley down the line. It's traveling at a slow speed and you're 7 feet away from it, standing still, and have a clear view that it lands two inches out. I'm 60 feet away, at the worst possible angle, my head is bouncing as a run back into the play.

I ask for help on the call. You say...???

[8F93W5]

Originally Posted by uk_skippy

How many people can answer this Q (correctly)?

I serve a 1st serve fault, and my opponent breaks a string while returning it?

What's my next serve? Another 1st serve, or a 2nd serve?

I didn't read ahead. Maybe someone answered. You didn't say if the opponent wants a racquet change or not. Maybe he/she wants to use the same racquet hoping you'll double fault or even if you don't, there's still a chance to win the point using a racquet with a broken string.
But by rule, you get a first serve if the opponent wants to change racquets between serves.
But how about when it's reversed? I was the returner and the server broke a string on first serve. This was a league match. AND the doofus didn't bring two racquets on court with him. He had to go to his car (which is against the rules, you can't leave the court for that) So anyway, of course I agree that he can go get a new racquet. It's about a 5 minute walk. Then he wants warm up serves! in the middle of a match! Then he wants a first serve. I knew the rule, but he got another first serve anyway.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by spot

Here is a singles match at the US Open where Mayer hit the post and the ball is good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-C0KZEG5Z0

You're not the sharpest twig on the tree so ill explain...

There are no singles sticks because the net is setup for singles and therefore the ball is considered good when it struck the net post.

1) Look for singles sticks (none present)
2) Look at net post location (singles sticks not needed)
3) If you saw either of those you could have answered your own question, but you didnt because you were so much in a hurry to prove me wrong.

[spot]

You are so sensitive. I never said you were wrong- I was just posting an example from the most recent US open where the ball hit the post and was good. I just thought that people would like seeing an example.

[McLovin]

Original Question:

Your 1st serve was a fault, but the opponent did not clear the ball from the court and it is sitting inside the lines of play. During the point, your shot hits the ball on the court, and both balls go flying into the air. Your opponent unknowingly plays the wrong ball & hits a winner. Who's point is it?

Originally Posted by blakesq

Server's point as soon as the ball hits the ball on the court. It is receiver's responsibility to clear balls on his side of the net.

Incorrect.

Originally Posted by Big_Dangerous

It's your point because it was his responsibility to clear the ball and he had the opportunity to, but he declined.

There's no let for that unless a ball from an adjacent court came into your court during a point in play, but in that case someone has to call a let immediately.

Incorrect.

The answer is: You play a let (see rule 25): http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/USTA...c_13_16051.pdf

Additionally, if it is clear the opponent hit the correct ball, they win the point.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

The ball cannot squeeze through a hole in the net or the side of the net between the net and the net post.

Well, if it's a singles match using singles sticks, and the ball goes through between the net post and the net (if there's a gap big enough) without hitting either, then it is a good ball.

[McLovin]

Oh, and for the record, I thought the same as both of you, but was proven wrong when I got home & looked it up. Good thing it was a fun match & not a USTA league or tournament match.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by spot

You are so sensitive. I never said you were wrong- I was just posting an example from the most recent US open where the ball hit the post and was good. I just thought that people would like seeing an example.

Not sensitive. You have just proven over time that you're more concerned with proving me wrong than checking yourself first and then you always have to come back and play it off like you were trying to "help".

You know, like the time you tried to discredit me by claiming I would measure Nadals serve at 180 mph using the FPS method and how, you, yourself, measured 5 videos on Youtube using "my method" and got them all to go 180 mph.



And to clarify: You quoted me and posted a video of what would seemingly contradict what I said.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

Well, if it's a singles match using singles sticks, and the ball goes through between the net post and the net (if there's a gap big enough) without hitting either, then it is a good ball.

Correct. See the same rule I quoted above when hitting another ball on the court. Effectively, it says a return is 'Good' if:

d. The ball passes under the net cord between the singles stick and the adjacent net post without touching either net, net cord or net post and hits the ground in the correct court

[Mongolmike]

Originally Posted by jswinf

^^^Reaching over the net is one of those things a player has to call on themselves, like playing a ball after a second bounce. You can't call it against them. As we know, many players aren't good at calling things against themselves. You can gripe about it, and maybe they won't do it again...

I didn't know this was a "self call". I don't hug the net, but a social friend does... nobody ever chastizes him for hanging over the net and attacking balls that probably did not clear the net... he's an older guy, nice, quirky, we just laugh and let it go.... there is zero % chance guys like him would call it on themselves.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by Mongolmike

I didn't know this was a "self call". I don't hug the net, but a social friend does... nobody ever chastizes him for hanging over the net and attacking balls that probably did not clear the net... he's an older guy, nice, quirky, we just laugh and let it go.... there is zero % chance guys like him would call it on themselves.

I hate self calls. Pretty much all you can do is laugh it off and not let it bother you.

99% of the time people call it on themselves and/or people just stop play because everyone "knows" it was a double bounce or whatever. There's always that 1% of the time that people play on and say it isnt so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLic-eiO5_8

At 0:28 the point starts
Infraction occurs at 0:35
Drama the whole way through lol...

[Fusker]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

I hate self calls. Pretty much all you can do is laugh it off and not let it bother you.

99% of the time people call it on themselves and/or people just stop play because everyone "knows" it was a double bounce or whatever. There's always that 1% of the time that people play on and say it isnt so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLic-eiO5_8

At 0:28 the point starts
Infraction occurs at 0:35
Drama the whole way through lol...

5:01 - karma

[OrangePower]

On calling your own shots out:

I wouldn't make a call on a shot that I hit that lands near the opponent's baseline - too far away for me to see.

But I will often call my shot out when I am going down the line and have my opponent on the run. He is looking across the line while I have a perfect angle. If I see it out I will just call it when I see it even if opponent has not yet made a call.

With 95% of people if you treat them fairly they will do the same to you.

[tennis_ocd]

Originally Posted by Big_Dangerous

It doesn't say you have to offer an opinion or that if you think it's out you have to say anything.

If you see your shot out you should call it out. Kind of a shame this is in the "lesser known rules" thread.

[Fusker]

Originally Posted by tennis_ocd

If you see your shot out you should call it out. Kind of a shame this is in the "lesser known rules" thread.

I agree. I put it here based on my experience, and the subsequent commentary seems to unfortunately justify its existence here. OrangePower's approach should be such common sense that it still blows me away that folks I've played don't get it.

In matches when I've called my own ball out, I do sometimes get guys that will later on ask me how I saw something they were uncertain of because they know that I'll do my best to help and call it fairly. The call will either be "in", "out", "no view" or "too close". Three out of those four options still mean "in" and in those cases, guys appreciate my feedback and we move on. It's too bad this doesn't seem to be the norm in my experience.

[Big_Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Fusker

13. Player calls own shots out. With the exception of the first serve, a player
should call out the player’s own shots if the player clearly sees the ball out regardless of whether requested to do so by an opponent. The prime objective in making calls is accuracy. All players should cooperate to attain this objective.

As far as vantage point goes, most players would only ask for help if the opponent clearly has a better view. For example, you hit a volley crosscourt - I scramble and rip a crosscourt passing shot attempt that in the process pulls me further off the court. You get there and bunt a volley down the line. It's traveling at a slow speed and you're 7 feet away from it, standing still, and have a clear view that it lands two inches out. I'm 60 feet away, at the worst possible angle, my head is bouncing as a run back into the play.

I ask for help on the call. You say...???

I've never been in a scenario like that, but 2 inches is actually some margin, I would think you could see that. I mean I'm talking close shots that are less than or equal to about an inch. But yeah if that was the case then I'd call it out.

[PhrygianDominant]

Threads like this make me realize how much I love clay courts. Those marks spare us so many arguments.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Fusker

I agree. I put it here based on my experience, and the subsequent commentary seems to unfortunately justify its existence here. OrangePower's approach should be such common sense that it still blows me away that folks I've played don't get it.

In matches when I've called my own ball out, I do sometimes get guys that will later on ask me how I saw something they were uncertain of because they know that I'll do my best to help and call it fairly. The call will either be "in", "out", "no view" or "too close". Three out of those four options still mean "in" and in those cases, guys appreciate my feedback and we move on. It's too bad this doesn't seem to be the norm in my experience.

Sadly, many players do not know their opponent is entitled to ask their opinion on line calls. When asked, these players do not simply state their opinion. They get all up in your grill, taking umbrage at the fact that you asked for help on a line call that is your responsibility.

They probably also return obviously out faults. There is nothing to be done for these people.

:sigh :

[blakesq]

Thanks MCLOVIN, you correclty pointed out that I was wrong, but your answer also is incorrect. A let is only called if it is UNCLEAR whether the correct ball was played. If the returner hits the wrong ball as a winner, but it is clear later that he played the wrong ball, then no let, he loses the point. The rule is here:

"Case 2: A ball in play hits another ball which is lying in the correct court.
What is the correct decision?
Decision: Play continues. However, if it is not clear that the actual ball in
play has been returned, a let should be called."

For instance, if the ball being served is a wilson 3, but the ball that was returned is a Penn 1, then it is clear he returned the wrong ball, and he loses the point in that weird case.

Originally Posted by McLovin

Original Question:

Your 1st serve was a fault, but the opponent did not clear the ball from the court and it is sitting inside the lines of play. During the point, your shot hits the ball on the court, and both balls go flying into the air. Your opponent unknowingly plays the wrong ball & hits a winner. Who's point is it?

Incorrect.



Incorrect.

The answer is: You play a let (see rule 25): http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/USTA...c_13_16051.pdf

Additionally, if it is clear the opponent hit the correct ball, they win the point.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by blakesq

Thanks MCLOVIN, you correclty pointed out that I was wrong, but your answer also is incorrect. A let is only called if it is UNCLEAR whether the correct ball was played. If the returner hits the wrong ball as a winner, but it is clear later that he played the wrong ball, then no let, he loses the point. The rule is here:

"Case 2: A ball in play hits another ball which is lying in the correct court.
What is the correct decision?
Decision: Play continues. However, if it is not clear that the actual ball in
play has been returned, a let should be called."

For instance, if the ball being served is a wilson 3, but the ball that was returned is a Penn 1, then it is clear he returned the wrong ball, and he loses the point in that weird case.

Well, not exactly, because in your scenario (two different kinds of balls), assuming we are playing with two different brand/number of balls, both players would have to know which ball had been served first (the fault). In other words, it is not clear, so a let is played. The only way I see your scenario is if a ball rolls on to the court from an adjacent court in the middle of a point, and my shot hits that ball. In which case, we should have called a let to begin with.

But that wasn't my original question:

Originally Posted by McLovin

Your 1st serve was a fault, but the opponent did not clear the ball from the court and it is sitting inside the lines of play.