Why do racquets with a small head size have such high prestige among some people?

[Nikae]

Originally Posted by vsbabolat

Let's go through the top 10 and see what the head size is REALLY and NOT advertised.
1 Roger Federer really uses 90sq.in
2 Novak Djokovic really uses 95sq.in
3 Andy Murray Really uses 95
4 Rafael Nadal does use 100
5 David Ferrer does use 100
6 Tomas Berdych really uses 95
7 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga does use 100
8 Juan Martin Potro does use 95
9 Janko Tipsarevic does uses 95
10 John Isner does use 100

So you have 4 guys using 100, 5 guys using 95, and 1 using 90. People use what is comfortable and what gives you confidence. There are guys that post on here and say "yes the midsize racquet is still viable today". They talk about their personal experiences playing with the smaller racquets.

You said (in some other threads) that Murray uses PT630 but 16/19 string pattern ( head size 98 ), and that Berdych is using head youtek radical MP with 16/19 pattern ( also head size 98 ).
I am from Serbia, same as Tipsarevic and Djokovic, and everyone around here talks about their rackets being the ones with head size 98...we could be wrong though.
Are they all actually using frames with head size of 95?

[movdqa]

Head measures size from the outside. To compare with other companies, you should measure from the inside.

[tlm]

Originally Posted by UCSF2012

Play without a dampener, play with a smiley face dampener, then play with a worm dampener. Then come back and tell me whether you noticed a difference in how it plays.

People who say vibration dampeners don't change the way a racket plays aren't perceptive to one of the most obvious changes in racket playability. The bigger the dampener, the more dead the lower half of the stringbed. Night and day difference.

The only think that is dead is the sound which is making you think there is a difference, but it is your imagination that makes you think it play differently.

[ramos77]

I grew up playing with a Max200g.

Started playing again about 6 months ago after a break of 15 years.

I tried 95, 97 and 100 inch frames. Have finally settled on the PSBLX90. Why? Because I can control my shots and take a proper swing and not be worried about hitting it long.

I feel confident with it because I was used to playing with a small frame as a teenager. I just couldnt play with the larger frames. My SH backhand has improved a lot, just by changing to the 90.

The weight is also a major reason why I like smaller frames, they are usually heavier.

[vsbabolat]

Originally Posted by Nikae

You said (in some other threads) that Murray uses PT630 but 16/19 string pattern ( head size 98 ), and that Berdych is using head youtek radical MP with 16/19 pattern ( also head size 98 ).
I am from Serbia, same as Tipsarevic and Djokovic, and everyone around here talks about their rackets being the ones with head size 98...we could be wrong though.
Are they all actually using frames with head size of 95?

The Pro Tour 630 and Radical MP are really 95 headsize. But HEAD marketed them as being 630cm2 (98sq.in) head size. That's the reality. Just like the Prestige Mid is called by HEAD 600cm2 (93sq.in. headsize) but the reality it's 89.5sq.in headsize.

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by vsbabolat

The Pro Tour 630 and Radical MP are really 95 headsize. But HEAD marketed them as being 630cm2 (98sq.in) head size. That's the reality. Just like the Prestige Mid is called by HEAD 600cm2 (93sq.in. headsize) but the reality it's 89.5sq.in headsize.

Like I said, folks need to get over the number on a frame. That is basically a heritage number. What I mean by that is once it's put on a model, the manufacturer doesn't change it.

And who really cares? I've seen numerous posts on here about playing "better" with a 95 than a 98. I think all that does is limit the choices and restrict one from making a positive change in equipment.

Case in point, one of my playing buddies plays with an ginourmous Prince frame. I think it's the 115 Prince Silver. Anyway, his game is unorthodox and he's in his early 60s now. He plays 4.0 and gives the younger set all they can handle. He wins more than he loses. He also can compete, especially in mixed doubles, with 4.5s.

Head size has zero to do with ability and is the wrong way to get better fundamentals.

And, if vsbabolat posts it, you can bank on it.

[UCSF2012]

Originally Posted by tlm

The only think that is dead is the sound which is making you think there is a difference, but it is your imagination that makes you think it play differently.

Completely oblivious to the most obvious. You can bounce the ball on the ground a bunch of times and tell dampeners firm up the stringbed.

[MikeHitsHard93]

Originally Posted by Timbo's hopeless slice

no, it isn't, but you apparently imagine every pro in the top 10 is playing with the raquet represented by the paintjob of teh day.

this isn't actually the case.

(or do you think Nole actually plays with a real Speed? Surely nobody is that naive??)

Sorry, I thought they all used rackets that were very close to the ones they have painted on..

I think you need to calm down and stop harassing me.

[movdqa]

> Sorry, I thought they all used rackets that were very close
> to the ones they have painted on..

There's a tremendous amount of knowledge on this forum on what Pros use - often from posters here that own the actual pro frames and post actual specs and pictures.

Fabfed has actual Federer, Djokovic and Nadal frames. There are a few tournament stringers here too that post information from stringing pro frames.

[Top Jimmy]

All that matters to me is weight, balance, feel, and in some odd way head shape.

If you hold up head sizes next to each other there really is hardly any difference between a 90-98 not to mention 95's to say a 100. I can hardly tell which is bigger, my 4d tour or something like a Head Speed. But they sure feel different.

[royfrombigd]

Honestly, the guys that are ripping winners with a 98" head racquet, would just end up adjusting and rip winners with a 90" head and vice versa. Racquet headsize, weight and string can make some difference, but at the end of the day it is all about technique and consistency. And with this self knowledge, I'm contemplating switching racquets again .

[ShiroRm]

Originally Posted by tlm

The only think that is dead is the sound which is making you think there is a difference, but it is your imagination that makes you think it play differently.

I don't think so. I started using the Youtek Ig Prestige Mid at the end of february (after having used the ag100 since 2007) and I had to stop using a dampener, because I couldn't play effectively with it
It's a fact that I had to get used to the heavier frame at the beginning, but it's even a fact that I was able to hit the ball effectively without a dampener. The impact was very confortable with a dampener, but the results in play were very poor. Even a rubber band gave me problems
So I decided to lower the string tension, removing the dampener and now I play a lot better than before, when I used the ag100: the added weight and denser strings pattern really suit my game

[greystar403]

Originally Posted by shaneno

i play with the wilson BLX prostaff 90, and i try other head size from other brands and hated them. the reason i play with 90 is not because federer play with it. it because i love the feel and maneuverability of this racket and bigger headsize lack that to me. personally opinion here! SO!

Yes! Federer the only one who play with 90 head size but if you look t the other top 9 there sponsored by babolat,prince,head and yonex basically. Those brands don't have under 95 but for the head prestige mid 93 and the yonex tour 89. So player who get sponsored by those brands have to chose a racket that suitting to there game, but if there isn't one the company will customize it. plus most players today play with semi-western or western bigger head size for them is better. 100 head best for western i find.

You make a very good point about the grip's relationship to the racquet. Weight also factors into this as well.

Western grips require vigorous upwards wrist action. This means that the bigger head size will lower the risk of off center hits and shanks. Weight needs to be lower because the upward acceleration requires immense wrist strength.

Conservative grips on the other hand are favorable to smaller head sizes and higher weights because of the stability, control, and less power for flatter shots.

Using a flat shot on a >100" racquet will result in loss of control and racquet instability and a heavy topspin shot will be shanked or hit off center with a <95" racquet.

BUT THAT'S ONLY MY OPINION AND A GENERALIZATION. If you can pull it off, props to you.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by movdqa

Head measures size from the outside. To compare with other companies, you should measure from the inside.

That's not the reason. It has to do with the metric to Imperial conversion (sq. cm. to sq. in.) and the fact that Head wanted to use nice round and symmetric numbers for it's marketing, such as 600, 630, 660, etc. even though the frames didn't actually measure 600 sq. cm., nor 630 sq. cm. nor 660 sq. cm. They are all actually smaller. But when you covert 600 sq. cm. to sq. in., you end up with 93 sq. in. even though the actual head size is 89.5 sq. in. or 578 sq. cm. Same when you convert 630 sq. cm. you end up with 98 sq. in. even though the actual head size is 95 sq. in. or 613 sq. cm.

PC600 and PT630 sounds a lot better for marketing than PC578 or PT613. Same for the 660.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by tlm

The only think that is dead is the sound which is making you think there is a difference, but it is your imagination that makes you think it play differently.

It's not the sound. It's the FEEL. I can FEEL the difference between using a dampener and no dampener. I can put ear plugs into my ears and not hear a thing and I can still FEEL the difference due to the amount of vibration that is transmitted to my hand.

[tlm]

There is no difference in the amount of vibration transferred to the hand when using a dampener. To you guys that think so it is all in your heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tlm]

Originally Posted by UCSF2012

Completely oblivious to the most obvious. You can bounce the ball on the ground a bunch of times and tell dampeners firm up the stringbed.

Okay mr oblivious here is a study on dampeners.



In this study, we examined the effect of string vibration damping devices on reducing racket frame vibration transfer to the forearm. Twenty participants volunteered to hold a tennis racket stationary in a forehand and backhand stroking position while tennis balls were fired at 20 m x [s.sup.1] towards two impact locations, the node of vibration and the dead spot. A three-way analysis of variance with repeated measures on damping condition, impact location and stroke condition was performed on the data. The resonant frequency of the hand-held racket was found to be ~120 Hz. No significant differences in amplitude of vibration at the resonant frequency were found for the wrist or the elbow when damped and non-damped impacts were compared. Impacts at the dead spot produced greater amplitudes of vibration (P < 0.01) but no interaction between impact location and string dampers was evident. The string dampers had no effect on the grip force used or the muscle electrical activity in the forearm after impact. In conclusion, we found that string dampers do not reduce the amount of racket frame vibration received at the forearm. We suggest that string dampers remain a popular accessory among tennis players because of their acoustic effects and psychological support rather than any mechanical advantage.

Link to this if you want to read more is: http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...86-8206271_ITM

[sunof tennis]

To directly answer your question (seems like most just answered why they like one head size versus another), I think in part there is prestige because the two guys in the open era with the most majors- Roger and Pete played with small headed racquets. Further, us old guys remember playing with even small headed racquets and watching our heros, Laver, etc. playing tennis with real racquets-wood .Lol.

[Shangri La]

Never understand the idea of 'holding a mid up to a mp to see the difference'. Tennis racquets are meant to be played and felt, not held and eyeballed. You can clearly feel the head size difference between a mid and a mp and its effect in almost every way, in play. I cant 'see' much of a difference between a 4 3/8 and 4 1/2 grip, or a standard vs extended length racquet either but the difference is unmistakeable in play. Again, I'm not saying us mere mortals do or do not have business using mids, but the headsize difference compared to mp is clearly there and makes a significant difference in play, whether that works for you or against you or you dont care. Eyeballing them doesnt mean anything.

[Backhanded Compliment]

I know when I break out my max 200G with its 83.5 inch head I can hit my slice backhand with an accuracy I never hope for with my more modern but still pretty old school Prestige MP (less good for topspin). I use the 200G for hitting against the wall because it sharpens my preparation... perhaps people who play with the smaller head sizes prefer the way it makes them focus? I know when I was playing 100 or 98's 3 years agoI wasn't as good as I am now with the 95's because there was this accuracy and mental sharpening that I need. I only play 2-3 times a week. Also, Ive been playing for 38 years so everything that isnt wood seems huge.

I might grab a prestige mid some day... because lately Ive been serve and volleying (which surprises me).

Smaller head sizes change the way you play the game.