Running Forehands

[boramiNYC]

With all the excitement about open stance and modern topspin stroke notwithstanding usual running forehands are out of that mold. Invariably they are very closed stance (which is a necessity) but still they can be hit very powerfully with pretty good control if executed well. Maybe not as spinny as regular topspin fh and more flat.

Can you share your ideas on this shot about the technique and/or biomechanics? I don't know if a true western grip can execute this shot but for SW and E grips this is a very important shot. I'm trying to better understand its mechanics.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

With all the excitement about open stance and modern topspin stroke notwithstanding usual running forehands are out of that mold. Invariably they are very closed stance (which is a necessity) but still they can be hit very powerfully with pretty good control if executed well. Maybe not as spinny as regular topspin fh and more flat.

Can you share your ideas on this shot about the technique and/or biomechanics? I don't know if a true western grip can execute this shot but for SW and E grips this is a very important shot. I'm trying to better understand its mechanics.

I can't explain why, and I haven't heard a convincing explanation, but, I do agree that, when hitting a forehand while running laterally out wide, it's easier and more natural to hit with either a closed stance, or, at least be mostly sideways to the target, especially when hitting cross court.

[LeeD]

Maybe because that shot cannot be reached if you tried to stop your momentum with a open stance. You needed the speed thru the hitting zone just to get into position to hit the ball.
Sampras had one of the best.
Just like a batter running to first base, he cannot stop right there, but runs thru past first base.
As opposed to a runner going to third, where he HAS to stop to maintain contact with the bag, he can't get there as quickly.

[Ash_Smith]

In an ideal world you'll use either a mogul step or a flow step...

http://jezgreen.com/the-mogul-step
http://jezgreen.com/the-flow-movement

Although these aren't demo'd from a really wide position, they are still appropriate patterns and give you the bast chance of recovery.

Cheers

[tricky]

In a running FH, to initiate the backswing, you consciously bring the racquet "down" or under the ball. This will cause the elbow to pivot high as the racquet is taken back (like Sampras.)

This has big advantages when moving laterally. You don't need as much torso rotation to complete the backswing and forward swing. As a result, you can still swing through the ball with little restriction. Your stance will naturally be more closed.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

In an ideal world you'll use either a mogul step or a flow step...

http://jezgreen.com/the-mogul-step
http://jezgreen.com/the-flow-movement

Although these aren't demo'd from a really wide position, they are still appropriate patterns and give you the bast chance of recovery.

Cheers

I can't speak for the OP, but, that's not what I mean by a running forehand. I mean hitting on the run laterally. Here are some examples of what I'm referring to. Federer, Sampras and Nadal all seem to have the same footwork - planting with the right foot (left for Nadal), on the backswing and stepping across with the left foot (right for Nadal), on the forward swing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWwiqsI7duk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnB3Jxy9Ecc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz47_0dMCME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q442oHhPJ0

[ATP100]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

In an ideal world you'll use either a mogul step or a flow step...

http://jezgreen.com/the-mogul-step
http://jezgreen.com/the-flow-movement

Although these aren't demo'd from a really wide position, they are still appropriate patterns and give you the bast chance of recovery.

Cheers

I agree with almost all your posts... I don't particularly like these video
example's.

[LeeD]

Those are not running forehands, in the sense I think of.
They are forehands hit from out wide, where the player easily get's there in time to hit the ball.
Running forehands, Sampras goes another 3 steps before recovery, full speed to get to the ball, not sauntering over to it. Running forehands are seldom hit as rally balls, as you hit the ball, then your momentum takes you far off the court.

[boramiNYC]

Ash, I meant something more wide and a little farther out of reach where you have to take big strides. But, for not too wide ones those are great.

[Cheetah]

Racquet prep high
hit off the left foot for righties. you don't 'step across'. you just continue your run w/ your normal stride and time it to hit on your left foot.
come under the ball and finish high.
aim for 3/4 wide or dtl shot

no jumping/pivoting as in the vids posted by ash. that's for a normal wide shot. not a running fh.

[boramiNYC]

I'm especially interested in the core movement and control on this shot. And how so much power can be generated without the core rotation. Any ideas?

[LeeD]

Watch vids of Sampras hitting running forehands.
He hits harder on those than most player can hit, period.
Good enough is sufficient.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

I'm especially interested in the core movement and control on this shot. And how so much power can be generated without the core rotation. Any ideas?

I already answered this. There is little to no core movement. The power comes from prepping the racquet high and letting it drop down under the ball from gravity and also from hitting off of the left foot for a stable base. Most rec players just run through the shot which is wrong. And by 'run through' i mean they just hit the ball no matter where their feet are and run through it instead of giving consideration to striking while on the left foot.

Hit off the left foot. high prep. let the racquet drop down. hit outside of the ball. finish high. That gives you lots of power.

edit: You don't necessarily 'swing through' on this shot. It's more like a pendulum. gravity does the work.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

I'm especially interested in the core movement and control on this shot. And how so much power can be generated without the core rotation. Any ideas?

It's due to the U-backswing or pendulum motion of the backswing (torso rotation mostly loads the shoulder abductors) This motion doesn't require a lot of torso rotation, and you generate most of the power from forward/linear weight transfer.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by tricky

It's due to the U-backswing or pendulum motion of the backswing (torso rotation mostly loads the shoulder abductors) This motion doesn't require a lot of torso rotation, and you generate most of the power from forward/linear weight transfer.

It's the forward swing that has a pendulum motion, not the backswing.

How do you get forward/linear weight transfer on a running forehand?

[LeeD]

You don't. You get the power from your arms. Notice the longer than normal backswing.

[tyu1314]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfaZQ...&feature=share.
By jeffsalzenstein, shows how to hit a heavy forehand when you are being pull back or to the side.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by LeeD

You don't. You get the power from your arms. Notice the longer than normal backswing.

yes i know. i was just trying to point out that he was incorrect by saying u use liner forward weight transfer.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by tyu1314

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfaZQ...&feature=share.
By jeffsalzenstein, shows how to hit a heavy forehand when you are being pull back or to the side.

that's a wide fh. not a running fh.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

It's the forward swing that has a pendulum motion, not the backswing.

The backswing as well. On the FH swing, the pendulum takeback gives you a very high elbow position, and it lets you sling the racquet at the ball. It lets you drive through the ball cleanly, yet have a true reverse finish.

There's a mechanical reason why. Most torso rotation is there to load the up-down-up motion of the swing (shoulder abduction.) This is difficult to load when you're moving laterally, and in fact your ability to drive through the ball gets compromised when moving this way with a traditional loop. However, the pendulum motion doesn't require that element, because it doesn't load the shoulder to swing the arm across the body. Thus you can still plow through a ball as if you were stepping into the shot. It gives you the same depth/pace.

How do you get forward/linear weight transfer on a running forehand?

It requires really good footwork. You have to shift your weight over the outside of your foot while suppressing sideways lean with the trunk. To do that, this may require you to significantly lower and widen your base.