In defense of Babolat and the "Modern Game"....

[El Zed]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

OK, you're obviously not getting it. Maybe you've never played with a racquet with incredible feel? Or maybe you're unable to discern the differences in feel between different racquets?

I'm talking about physical feel, not emotional feel. Like how you feel it physically when someone punches you in the gut, not emotional feel like when a girl breaks your heart. So it's NOT - "I just hit a blazing winner and won the match so I feel great!". IT'S - "I just hit the ball into the net and the sensation in my hand and arm feels like it's having an orgasm!".

So the "feel" most of us here are talking about is a characteristic of your racquet and string set-up, NOT your state of mind. Do you get it now?

Hey, buddy, no reason to take a condescending tone. Amazingly enough your definition of "feel" is not something that I'm failing to grasp. I'm happy you prefer the "feel" of your racquet - even at the expense of placing a shot into the net. To me, my preferred "feel" is associated with maximized controlled velocity - i.e. crushing a shot and having it land exactly where I intended - not the feeling of a "muted" or disconnected racquet, not the feel of a racquet wrapped in cotton, and most certainly not a racquet that provides "arm... orgasm" as you so eloquently put it. I'm not looking for a racquet that massages my arm, I'm looking for one that helps me maximize control and power in a competitive setting.

As to not playing with a racquet with "incredibly" feel - I have used the original Head Prestige, the Prestige Pro, the Prestige Pro 600, the Fischer Vacuum 90 (Made in Austria), the Pro Staff 85, the POG Mid, the Volkl C10, in addition to a variety of pro-stocks. You tell me, do these racquets lack "incredible feel"?

[El Zed]

Originally Posted by gopokes

Arm and shoulder issues have been around since the dawn of the game. It doesn't get much more "arm-friendly" than a 14 oz Kramer or Maxply, with a flex of 40 (I'm guessing here) and strung with nat. gut, and yet folks came down with tendonitis et al. all of the time playing those sticks - myself being one of the legions of folks to search for more forgiveness in a lighter, more manageable package - ergo the prince pro, then graphite, and so on. So I think it's an issue of mechanics, prerequisite strength, sensible use, and adequate rest. Pitchers (and catchers) come down with pitcher's elbow, and they're not striking anything. So I think the stiffness issue is overrated when it comes to elbow issues honestly. I know others have had different experiences, but to me, it's an occupational hazard of the game, not so much of a specific type of racquet. The pros hit as many balls in a couple of weeks as most rec folks hit in a year or more - with pretty stiff set-ups; but then Jimmy Tennis drags his flabby ***** out to hit after watching the US Open, buys a Bab because Rafa uses it, hits with the crummiest technique imaginable, shanks 36 balls in a row, and then proclaims (to the internet, since nobody else will listen), "This Bab is SHITE! - it ruined my arm!!"
Nosiree, I think the Babos and others are ok - it's more the technique and relative fitness of its user that matters. Inadequate musculature = strained tendons, plain and simple.

Very well put and completely logical to me.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by El Zed

What I am saying, however, is the apparent tendency of some to rate subjective "feel" over actual, objective performance.

But for me, "feel" = "performance". I judge a racquet by its "feel", first and foremost regardless of the results I get with it. If it doesn't "feel" good to me, I won't use it even if I win every match 6-0, 6-0.

[El Zed]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

But for me, "feel" = "performance". I judge a racquet by its "feel", first and foremost regardless of the results I get with it. If it doesn't "feel" good to me, I won't use it even if I win every match 6-0, 6-0.

To each his own. I am more willing to look past some vibrations or other subjective feel issues and to use a dampener for a racquet that can increase my accuracy and/or pace.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by El Zed

At a slightly reduced weight of 11.3 oz unstrung, the APDGT is further similar to a pro stock in that it affords some room for leading-up.

The APDGT is 11.3 oz. STRUNG:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babo...AB-BAPDGT.html

TW measures all racquet specs STRUNG.

11.3 oz. STRUNG is very light to me as all my racquets are around 12.5-13.0 oz. strung.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by El Zed

To each his own. I am more willing to look past some vibrations or other subjective feel issues and to use a dampener for a racquet that can increase my accuracy and/or pace.

I also use a dampener. And I'd rather work on my game to increase my accuracy and/or pace than make a Faustian bargain by taking a short cut that could prematurely end my tennis life.

[El Zed]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

The APDGT is 11.3 oz. STRUNG:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babo...AB-BAPDGT.html

TW measures all racquet specs STRUNG.

11.3 oz. STRUNG is very light to me as all my racquets are around 12.5-13.0 oz. strung.

Already acknowledged the mistake above. Of all the racquets sold on Tennis Warehouse, only 5 are in range of 12.5 to 13 oz. Of these, only 3 have a swing weight higher than the APDGT. Only is the APDGT so consistently derided for being a "light racquet," however.

Again, I appreciate that player's racquets are generally held to be above 12 oz strung, but you are making it sound like the APDGT is a titanium racquet or the TiS6 at 8/9 oz. It isn't, and it has a very respectable swing-weight. I don't necessarily consider it a negative that it doesn't have a high swing weight yet retains the plow-through associated with its swing weight.

[El Zed]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

I also use a dampener. And I'd rather work on my game to increase my accuracy and/or pace than make a Faustian bargain by taking a short cut that could prematurely end my tennis life.

Ok friend, good luck with that.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by El Zed

As to not playing with a racquet with "incredibly" feel - I have used the original Head Prestige, the Prestige Pro, the Prestige Pro 600, the Fischer Vacuum 90 (Made in Austria), the Pro Staff 85, the POG Mid, the Volkl C10, in addition to a variety of pro-stocks. You tell me, do these racquets lack "incredible feel"?

So that's the "feel" we're referring to. The "feel" of the racquet itself. Not that you "feel" great because you just hit a blazing winner into the corner. I think most of us here care more about the "feel" of the racquet itself.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by El Zed

Ok friend, good luck with that.

I guess I believe in hard work rather than getting a government bail out. LOL

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by El Zed

Already acknowledged the mistake above. Of all the racquets sold on Tennis Warehouse, only 5 are in range of 12.5 to 13 oz. Of these, only 3 have a swing weight higher than the APDGT. Only is the APDGT so consistently derided for being a "light racquet," however.

Again, I appreciate that player's racquets are generally held to be above 12 oz strung, but you are making it sound like the APDGT is a titanium racquet or the TiS6 at 8/9 oz. It isn't, and it has a very respectable swing-weight. I don't necessarily consider it a negative that it doesn't have a high swing weight yet retains the plow-through associated with its swing weight.

Heavier static weight racquets are more stable and absorb more shock and vibration. Research has shown (someone linked to one above) that the worst racquets for arm injuries are light, stiff, head heavy (or less headlight) racquets, e.g., Babolat APDGT. The best racquets for arm health are heavy, flexy, more headlight racquets.

[El Zed]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

I guess I believe in hard work rather than getting a government bail out. LOL

Thank you for being the perfect foil to my argument.

You are right - use of the APDGT represents an abandonment of hard-work for the petty endeavor of a "free lunch." You see, I just show up to the court, and the APDGT magically attaches itself to my hand in a manner affording me heavy shots with topspin at notably improved pace with absolutely no effort on my end. The only evident down-side being, given your posts, the lack of an "arm...orgasm."

Opinions of the quality that you have provided are exactly what has troubled me to the point of posting the initial message. A racquet is a tool, nothing more, and nothing less. But through technological development, tools can be improved over time. The use of improved tools is not "cheating," a free lunch, nor some "Faustian" pact that you referenced.

The APDGT is not for everyone. Contrary to popular belief, a short swing with the raquet will not render a shot with pace sufficient to be an offensive weapon in match play. The racquet does not play itself. Furthermore, wild and uncontrolled (read, improper) swings will indeed result in a shot that is over the court and into the parking lot - a common complaint with this stick. Controlled pace takes - gasp - work. But once that is provided and the results are obtained, you are left with a racquet able to provide significant spin, strong punch AND accuracy (to a degree better than any of the racquets I have previously used). But again, to the likes of you, this will likely fall on deaf ears eliciting a response that either my arm will fall off or that I am a Nadal-wannabe playing with a grannie stick. Again to each his own, but your comments have done nothing to give pause to my belief that the APDGT is unjustly disparaged here.

[SFrazeur]

Some people are just racquet snobs. Not much too it really.

-SF

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by El Zed

Hey, buddy, no reason to take a condescending tone. Amazingly enough your definition of "feel" is not something that I'm failing to grasp. I'm happy you prefer the "feel" of your racquet - even at the expense of placing a shot into the net. To me, my preferred "feel" is associated with maximized controlled velocity - i.e. crushing a shot and having it land exactly where I intended - not the feeling of a "muted" or disconnected racquet, not the feel of a racquet wrapped in cotton, and most certainly not a racquet that provides "arm... orgasm" as you so eloquently put it. I'm not looking for a racquet that massages my arm, I'm looking for one that helps me maximize control and power in a competitive setting.

As to not playing with a racquet with "incredibly" feel - I have used the original Head Prestige, the Prestige Pro, the Prestige Pro 600, the Fischer Vacuum 90 (Made in Austria), the Pro Staff 85, the POG Mid, the Volkl C10, in addition to a variety of pro-stocks. You tell me, do these racquets lack "incredible feel"?

"Arm orgasm"?! ... I look forward to the thread: 'Best arm orgasm frame', haha.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by El Zed

The racquet does not play itself.

You mean like how a car with an automatic transmission drives itself?

That's why I also prefer to drive stick shifts. More feel, more control, less cheating, no free lunch, more hard work, etc. LOL

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by Ross K

"Arm orgasm"?! ... I look forward to the thread: 'Best arm orgasm frame', haha.

That would be the Dunlop Max 200G, followed by the PS 6.0 85 and the Prestige Classic 600. That's why they are timeless classics. Orgasms never go out of style. LOL

[lawrencejin]

I think your original post is rather thoughtful. If you find that with Babolat frames, you get all the benefits of more 'prestigious' frames plus added spin and power, you found your perfect weapon. It doesn't matter what others say because, at the end of the day, the racket is your weapon.

What lacks in this forum is an understanding that everyone's different. People cite many generalizations and rules of thumb, e.g. light and stiff rackets tend to worsen tennis elbow and lack feel. I believe there is truth to these generalizations. But they're what they are: generalizations, and nothing more. If A plays extremely well with Babolat sticks without elbow problems, then the generalization is no longer relevant. The problem is that many on this forum recite these rules of thumb as if they're indisputable laws of physics and try to impose them on everyone.

There is definitely an anti-Babolat tendency here on TW. But keep in mind that TW is a biased sample of all recreational tennis players out there. From my experience, many recreational and even competitive players (college level) have favorable opinions towards Babolats.

On that note, I should also point out that nostalgia and "feel" are all very legitimate reasons for choosing a racket. Like BP, I would also not choose a racket that feels bad, even if I play awesome with it. I would rather choose a racket that I play less awesome with, but feels fantastic. I can make this trade-off because I'm a recreational player.

[KenC]

Actually, I think the Pure Drive and the APD are great racquets, it's the idiots that seem to migrate to them that bother me. Let's attempt to classify them:

Type 1: Pusher. No regard for technique, just hope to outlast your opponent physically and mentally with junk balls.

Type 2: Hackers. No regard for proper technique, they try to crush every ball as hard as they can and hope one or two go in so they can talk about how great those two shots were for hours afterwards.

Type 3: Spin junkies. They are more interested in generating as much spin as possible than actually playing the point. It's OK to play bad as long as there is max spin on the ball. They are the "Look at me, I use a full western grip and generate more spin than Nadal." Ironically, they are not really putting that much spin on anyway.

Type 4: Nadal fan. Yep, you got it, they show up with the latest PJ, as well as the latest outfit right down to the bandana and then try to emulate Nadal. Of course, they come no where close.

If it weren't for the fact that we see so many bad players hitting with those two racquets I bet they would be much more popular. But as it stands, when serious players see their opponent show up with a PD or an APD they groan hoping that he isn't one of the above 4 types.

[UCSF2012]

Don't be a narcissist. Other people don't have to use your racket or your racket spec. Pay attention to your own game. Use what you want, and let others use what they want.

It's what you can do with a tennis ball that counts, not the tool you use. Brag about your wins, not the bow on your fancy new racket.

[UCSF2012]

The only time it matters what racket your opponent uses is formulation of a battle strategy. If they're using a Pure Drive of Aero Pro, chances are they're power hungry, so make them overhit. If they're using the 90, take off all pace and make them generate everything themselves. Then, watch them hit hte ball into the net.