Better athlete: Federer or Sampras

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

No to all of that, other than Monfils if you are talking on a track only (on a tennis court nowhere close).

Really? Blake not faster than Nadal.

What do you think about Djokovic, does he compare to Nadal?

[tennis_pro]

Originally Posted by dangalak

I don't think Nadal jumps as high as Sampras, but he is as fast or faster AND has much better stamina. Equal in one area and vastly superior in the other.

However, Federer is clearly inferior in one area and vastly superior in the other which is why I thought of making this thread.

What a terrible idea that was.

Ok, tell us again exactly what criteria you use to determine athleticism. Cause it seems to me that you just handed Nadal the "better athelete than Sampras" trophy without going through all the individual points (like you did in the Federer-Sampras comparison). Instead, you called Nadal a better athlete because he's faster than Sampras. I'd like to remind you that speed fills in like 1/10 of the full notion of what athleticism is. Among others you mentioned power, ain't that right?

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by dangalak

Really? Blake not faster than Nadal.

What do you think about Djokovic, does he compare to Nadal?

No Blake is definitely not faster than Nadal. You seem to think any player who is very fast is as fast or faster than Nadal which is purely delusional. Even Blake didnt even try to outrun Nadal in their early matches, he knew his only hope to win was to outhit and that he did. Hewitt is faster than Blake but also not as fast as Nadal. Blake had great speed for someone who wasnt even a grinder or good defensive player overall, but that is it. Then again I am talking to someone who thinks Ana freaking Ivanovic had a more "powerful" forehand than Steffi Graf and served at 125 mph at her peak, LOL!

Djokovic might be as fast as Nadal on hard courts only, definitely not on clay or grass IMO. I am talking peak Nadal, Nadal has already lost some speed with years of grinding and age.

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by tennis_pro

Ok, tell us again exactly what criteria you use to determine athleticism. Cause it seems to me that you just handed Nadal the "better athelete than Sampras" trophy without going through all the individual points (like you did in the Federer-Sampras comparison). Instead, you called Nadal a better athlete because he's faster than Sampras. I'd like to remind you that speed is fills like 1/10 of the full notion of what athleticism is. Among others you mentioned power, ain't that right?

His shots may be less powerful, but then against, he doesn't hit flat 99% of the time, so getting an estimation on his power from his shots is difficult.

I think with Nadal, a comparison is really futile. He seems to be on a level of speed where I cannot say that Sampras is faster. He is more or less just as explosive as Sampras AND more enduring. Federer is also superior in endurance, but not in speed, acceleration, hence why it's not crystal clear with him.

[tennis_pro]

Originally Posted by dangalak

His shots may be less powerful, but then against, he doesn't hit flat 99% of the time, so getting an estimation on his power from his shots is difficult.

I think with Nadal, a comparison is really futile. He seems to be on a level of speed where I cannot say that Sampras is faster. He is more or less just as explosive as Sampras AND more enduring. Federer is also superior in endurance, but not in speed, acceleration, hence why it's not crystal clear with him.

So who's got more power? Federer or Sampras? (just please don't tell me that Sampras' serve was 15 mph faster than Federer's cause that's a lie)

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by tennis_pro

So who's got more power? Federer or Sampras?

You seem to be comparing only their shots. Most of the power from shots comes from technique, not strength. Just look at Justine Henin who probably would bench press the 250th most on the WTA tour yet was one of the hardest hitters at her peak. One just looks at Sampras and Federer and it would be a miracle if Federer was somehow physically stronger.

Anyway as far as power goes I thought both at their best Sampras was considered the more explosive player overall. You talk about Federer having better groundstrokes, but that is based on alot of factors- angles, deception, variety, placement, directional control, consistency. Sampras's drive forehands were every bit as explosive, maybe even a bit more, even with Federer's being better overall. Sampras's serve was much more heavy and penetrating than Federer's no contest in that regard. You cant compare just by mph (which Sampras is a bit higher in on average anyway) since the mphs of serves have been rising greatly for reasons hard to explain, Brenda Schultz for instance serving at 130 mph to retake the womens serve speed World record in her mid 30s, way faster than she had ever managed in her prime, how toe explain that. Sampras's volleys and overheads also had more bite on them. Sampras in his era was considered one of it not the biggest overall hitter in the game. Federer was never considered the biggest overall hitter in the game. In his own era people talk about Soderling, Del Potro, Berdych as being bigger hitters.

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

No Blake is definitely not faster than Nadal. You seem to think any player who is very fast is as fast or faster than Nadal which is purely delusional. Even Blake didnt even try to outrun Nadal in their early matches, he knew his only hope to win was to outhit and that he did. Hewitt is faster than Blake but also not as fast as Nadal. Blake had great speed for someone who wasnt even a grinder or good defensive player overall, but that is it. Then again I am talking to someone who thinks Ana freaking Ivanovic had a more "powerful" forehand than Steffi Graf and served at 125 mph at her peak, LOL!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest...s_serves#Women

Also, maybe Blake didn't try to grind because he couldn't hit 10 consecutive shots into the court and was better off being aggressive, since he had incredible power and early ballstriking. Why on earth would he grind against Nadal in the first place? To allow him to pick on his backhand?

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by dangalak

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest...s_serves#Women

Also, maybe Blake didn't try to grind because he couldn't hit 10 consecutive shots into the court and was better off being aggressive, since he had incredible power and early ballstriking. Why on earth would he grind against Nadal in the first place? To allow him to pick on his backhand?

So her fastest ever serve was 124 and this equates to hitting 125+ serves in her prime? By your logic I could say Nadal hits 135+ serves in his prime, since at the 2010 U.S Open he had some serves that reached 135. Ana has probably hit what, 6 serves in her career even over 120. Also if this isnt proof of the belief radar guns are juiced today I dont know what is, since even the blind can see Graf in her prime had a more powerful serve than the likes of Ivanovic (and I am no Graf fan btw, most on this forum regard me a Graf hater). BTW Graf herself was recording serves about 10 mph faster in 1999 as a gimpy old lady soon to retire, as she had been at her peak in 1995-1996, LOL!

Try starting a poll who is faster Blake or Nadal and see how that turns out.

[fed_rulz]

Originally Posted by dangalak

....
It isn't the same, genius. Overall athleticism is hard to quantify. It is visible with the naked eye that Sampras was a far better leaper than Federer and something that literally nobody but you denies.

LMAO!! so given that folks on this thread disagree with you 3:1, you do concede that Federer is the better athlete? seems like your "naked" eye needs some clothing.. btw, this very thread has some pictures that disagree with you that Sampras was the "far better" leaper.

The way I see it, you started a thread with a poll, and you're throwing a tantrum now because the results disagree (by a vast margin) with your perception.

[tennis_pro]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

You seem to be comparing only their shots. Most of the power from shots comes from technique, not strength. Just look at Justine Henin who probably would bench press the 250th most on the WTA tour yet was one of the hardest hitters at her peak. One just looks at Sampras and Federer and it would be a miracle if Federer was somehow physically stronger.

What more data can I use? Federer hits his groundstrokes harder and consistently harder while Sampras would loop the backhand 3-4 times before going for a killer shot, serves just as fast (Sampras rarely hit his serve over 125 mph). I agree he has less sting on the volleys but that's expected as Sampras visited the net a lot more often than Federer did/does. You can't just say "one looks at them and thinks it would be a miracle if Federer was somehow physically stronger", it's just impossible to predict how they would fare in competition. Just because Fed doesn't have Schwarzenegger' stature it doesn't mean he's not stronger than Sampras.

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Anyway as far as power goes I thought both at their best Sampras was considered the more explosive player overall. You talk about Federer having better groundstrokes, but that is based on alot of factors- angles, deception, variety, placement, directional control, consistency. Sampras's drive forehands were every bit as explosive, maybe even a bit more, even with Federer's being better overall. Sampras's serve was much more heavy and penetrating than Federer's no contest in that regard. His volleys and overheads also had more bite on them.

Once again, how do you rate explosiveness? Just because Sampras didn't grind his match as much as Federer does at times and went for a killer shot earlier it doesn't mean that he's more explosive. Is Del Potro more explosive than Federer as well?

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

So her fastest ever serve was 124 and this equates to hitting 125+ serves in her prime? By your logic I could say Nadal hits 135+ serves in his prime, since at the 2010 U.S Open he had some serves that reached 135. Ana has probably hit what, 6 serves in her career even over 120. Also if this isnt proof of the belief radar guns are juiced today I dont know what is, since even the blind can see Graf in her prime had a more powerful serve than the likes of Ivanovic (and I am no Graf fan btw, most on this forum regard me a Graf hater). BTW Graf herself was recording serves about 10 mph faster in 1999 as a gimpy old lady soon to retire, as she had been at her peak in 1995-1996, LOL!

Try starting a poll who is faster Blake or Nadal and see how that turns out.

Did I really say she served 125+? Pretty sure I said she had hit mid 120s in the past. Whatever though.

You know that Nadal would easily win. Popular players always get the nod on these polls. I am much more interested in a Blake/Hewitt poll though.

Originally Posted by fed_rulz

LMAO!! so given that folks on this thread disagree with you 3:1, you do concede that Federer is the better athlete? seems like your "naked" eye needs some clothing.. btw, this very thread has some pictures that disagree with you that Sampras was the "far better" leaper.

The way I see it, you started a thread with a poll, and you're throwing a tantrum now because the results disagree (by a vast margin) with your perception.

It seems silly of me to say this now, but if I was to claim that somebody else but Federer is better at taking a dump on the sidewalk, the likes of you would probably argue against it.

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by tennis_pro

What more data can I use? Federer hits his groundstrokes harder and consistently harder while Sampras would loop the backhand 3-4 times before going for a killer shot, serves just as fast (Sampras rarely hit his serve over 125 mph). I agree he has less sting on the volleys but that's expected as Sampras visited the net a lot more often than Federer did/does. You can't just say "one looks at them and thinks it would be a miracle if Federer was somehow physically stronger", it's just impossible to predict how they would fare in competition.

..............................

[fed_rulz]

Originally Posted by dangalak

Did I really say she served 125+? Pretty sure I said she had hit mid 120s in the past. Whatever though.

You know that Nadal would easily win. Popular players always get the nod on these polls. I am much more interested in a Blake/Hewitt poll though.



It seems silly of me to say this now, but if I was to claim that somebody else but Federer is better at taking a dump on the sidewalk, the likes of you would probably argue against it.

bitter much? if you're certain that Sampras was the better athlete (seems like you are, because you seem to dismiss any evidence to the contrary), why did you start the thread in the first place? to troll?

[tennis_pro]

Originally Posted by dangalak

..............................

fastest first serve speed of Roger Federer: 135 mph 2006 AO against Haas.
fastest first serve speed of Andy Roddick: 155 mph
2004 Davis Cup against Volchkov
fastest first serve speed of Pete Sampras: 135 mph 1998 US Open 4th round against Safin
f. 2nd serve speed of Federer: 126 mph 2004 Halle against Haas
f. 2nd serve of Roddick: 133 mph 2004 Wimby final against Fed
f. 2nd serve of Sampras: 127 mph 2001 U.S Open against Agassi
average fist serve speed Fed: 114-121 mph
Roddick: 122-132 mph, Sampras: 114-123 mph
average second serve speed Fed: 90-105 mph
Roddick: 100-110 mph, Sampras: 90-115 mph
I take it back about that weak serve comments form me in the past. Federer does have a real fast and potent serve.

So you claiming that Sampras's serve had an additional 15 mph on it compared to Sampras is an utter lie as Sampras' FASTEST EVER RECORDED SPEED clocked at 135, which is nothing faster than Federer's fastest ever 1st serve.

Those stats which I found only prove that Sampras had a consistently better 2nd serve than Federer (not even by much) which I agree with (and always has), even considering that the surfaces were way faster in the Sampras era.

Also, for such a Federer fan you seem to favor Sampras quite heavily. Luckily, reality is on Federer's side.

[MurrayMyInspiration]

Who would win a wrestling match between the two? Pete
Who would win a 50metre dash? Pete
Who would win a high jump or long jump? Pete
Who would win longer distance race? Roger
Reflexes, agility, flexibility? Cant decide.
Who could throw a javelin further? A discus? Jump hurdles? Swim better?
If you had to pick one to do a days work on the railroads you would pick PETE. Simples! Look at the two men and you would always pick Sampras over federer for sheer athleticism!! End thread

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by fed_rulz

bitter much? if you're certain that Sampras was the better athlete (seems like you are, because you seem to dismiss any evidence to the contrary), why did you start the thread in the first place? to troll?

I expected people to at least stick to areas which Federer can actually be said to be superior to Sampras in.

I didn't expect people to say ridiculous garbage in the line of "Federer jumps just as high as Sampras".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...lbGYMas#t=231s Does that look like something that would some close to Sampras?

Originally Posted by tennis_pro

fastest first serve speed of Roger Federer: 135 mph 2006 AO against Haas.
fastest first serve speed of Andy Roddick: 155 mph
2004 Davis Cup against Volchkov
fastest first serve speed of Pete Sampras: 135 mph 1998 US Open 4th round against Safin
f. 2nd serve speed of Federer: 126 mph 2004 Halle against Haas
f. 2nd serve of Roddick: 133 mph 2004 Wimby final against Fed
f. 2nd serve of Sampras: 127 mph 2001 U.S Open against Agassi
average fist serve speed Fed: 114-121 mph
Roddick: 122-132 mph, Sampras: 114-123 mph
average second serve speed Fed: 90-105 mph
Roddick: 100-110 mph, Sampras: 90-115 mph
I take it back about that weak serve comments form me in the past. Federer does have a real fast and potent serve.

So you claiming that Sampras's serve had an additional 15 mph on it compared to Sampras is an utter lie as Sampras' FASTEST EVER RECORDED SPEED clocked at 135, which is nothing faster than Federer's fastest ever 1st serve.

Interesting, so Federer averaged the same first serve speeds?

[mental midget]

sampras is probably the stronger of the two, maybe the slightest of edges in straight-line acceleration.

federer, better overall coordination and body control.

all of this, incrementally so. it's a pretty close call on all fronts.

in terms of the broader discussion about speed, style of play makes this a tough call. with his style of play nadal has a lot more opportunities to show off than, for example, a player like stefan edberg. but if you lined the two of them up for a 100m dash, i might actually put some money down on stefan in his prime.

i think phau, chang and borg might be my picks for the 3 fastest guys i've seen play.

[Dedans Penthouse]

Pete Sampras

[tennis_pro]

Originally Posted by dangalak

I didn't expect people to say ridiculous garbage in the line of "Federer jumps just as high as Sampras".

The only good answer to who jumps higher is "no way to tell", at least not based on a couple of show-off slam dunks that Sampras performed from time to time.

Originally Posted by dangalak

Interesting, so Federer averaged the same first serve speeds?

This is common knowledge. The Sampras serve wasn't know for it's speed but for it's precision, consistency and damage it made. His 2nd serve is clearly better despite hitting way more double faults than Federer (well, Federer doesn't hit double faults at all for the matter, it's just not worth going for it)

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by dangalak

You know that Nadal would easily win. Popular players always get the nod on these polls.

Proof you are new here. Nadal is by far one of the most hated, if not the most hated player on this forum. He is as unpopular and people biased against, as Federer is uber popular and people biased in favor of us around here. Any poll he by some miracle wins he would clearly deserve to.