And the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...?

[RollTrackTake]

Originally Posted by Ross K

^^^ Thanks everyone. It's a PITA hassle demoing here in the UK, so it's great to have this feedback. Food for thought then...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100
4. Yonex's (various)
5. Pro Kennex's
6. 400T
7. BBLondon

QSN. How does the Yonnie 100S play stiffness-wise in ppl's opinions?

I would have to add the Donnay Pro 1 to the list since weight wise it is in the tweener range and head is 1 sq inch less than a bb London, which I agree should be on the list. some will argue the Pro 1 is more of a players racquet or 'tweenerish' players stick though.

[Power Player]

Ross it is a shame you can't get PKs. They really are the sticks you want to try. Best feel, amazing comfort..etc. I'd pick PK over anything on your list just because the 7G is so good, I have to figure the 315 Q5 would be as well.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by smirker

How about Pacific X-Fast if you can get hold of one? Tweener spec but with Fischer tech.

Ross_K, I've got a demo of the X Fast this week for some of my high school girls, so I'll take a hit with it & let you know what I think. You already know my feelings on the X Force Pro, so I can at least let you know how it hits in comparison.

My impression just from holding it is it's a Pure Drive-clone, and I never liked the Pure Drive (Pure Control 'Swirly', however...), so this should be an interesting hit.

[rlau]

Originally Posted by RollTrackTake

I would have to add the Donnay Pro 1 to the list since weight wise it is in the tweener range and head is 1 sq inch less than a bb London, which I agree should be on the list. some will argue the Pro 1 is more of a players racquet or 'tweenerish' players stick though.

I agree, the Donnay Pro One 97 16x19 is a great stick with tweener-like attributes: excellent power and spin, but with more comfort and control.

I'm currently playing it with the 10 gram buttcap (that's another plus Donnay has: weighed buttcaps in +5 and +10 grams to tweak the balance) and 3 grams at 12. Excellent for baseline bashing and powerful on serves.

[souledge]

Head Youtek IG Extreme 2.0 Pro?

[keithfival]

I tried virtually all of the tweeners for the very same reason, to find a less stiff and better feeling APDC+. I'd say the only one that gives you similar playability features (easy fast swing, spin-based control, high margin for error, racket seems to do a lot of the work) which is significantly less stiff/harsh are the Donnays. I tried the x-dual silver and gold and both had that super-easy, spinny response, extremely soft, plus a trillion times better touch/feel. Maybe a bit less power but I think the power is there to be dialed in. That said, there was something about the very soft feel that I just didn't like but I think for many it would be a dream stick, it was really impressive. Definitely worth a spin.

Of course there are many APD types that perform similarly and are somewhat more comfortable- Pro Open, Technifibre, 4D AG500 Tour, etc. but I think they are all in the same league of stiffness and over time you still feel it even if they are more muted or solid feeling than the APD. I think these are ultimately lateral moves as far as arm health.

And there are others that are indeed more comfortable but just don't do what the APD does for you with such ease- Exo Tour 100 (not nearly as whippy), Becker (less spin, less whippy), 400T (don't get me started).

Just my findings from trying 100 tweeners to specifically replace an APDC+.

[BlueB]

Prince O3 White.
O3 Shark MP can do too, but has a bit more power and less plush feeling.

Now something unortodox:
Find an old POG OS 4-stripe, prefferably one that's a bit on the lighter side already, static and swing. I was able to find ones that are about 327 - 326 SW and sub 350g static. Then ditch the heavy leather grip and replace with 2 lightest overgrips. Shawe the bumper a bit if you wanted further reduction in SW. You'll end up with a 330+g, 320+ SW, ~4 HL, medium stiffness... Pretty tweenerish, isn't it? Added bennefit is that you'll still have that solid POG feel on flatter, fuller strokes, while the racquet will play like a tweener when you want.

[coolblue123]

Pacific XFast Pro 100
BB London's
BB NYC w/ Lead
Yonex EZone XI 100 (not bad, if you can have a slower swing and like the boxy headshape)
Had a Vantage BC30 as well. Kinda regret selling it now. Even though some folks complain of shoulder pain because it's too soft, I didn't noticed it when I had it.

I've played with all the above except for the XFast Pro (which I still can't find much research on...)

[smirker]

Originally Posted by Power Player

Ross it is a shame you can't get PKs. They really are the sticks you want to try. Best feel, amazing comfort..etc. I'd pick PK over anything on your list just because the 7G is so good, I have to figure the 315 Q5 would be as well.

We can get PK's here. Demoing just isn't as easy as stumping up $10 to TW. it usually involves buying the racket and paying two lots of postage to send it back if you don't like it. one site offers demos but will only take them back if in an unplayed state! How does that work?

Good shout from the previous poster on the POG. Now to find one with a lighter spec.

[dgoran]

Hi Ross

Dont get scared of Babolat flex numbers thanks to +- 7 tolerance you can literary "tailor" your new apd. To your liking imagine 74-7 and your back to original apd territory.
I am starting to consider Babolat qc a "feature" kind of like reverse "no tolerance" feature that fisher had lol

[Fed Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Ross K

By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...?

TIA

Yonex ezone xi. Smooth frame with a lot of power, feels good loaded with full poly.

[smirker]

Originally Posted by Fed Kennedy

Yonex ezone xi. Smooth frame with a lot of power, feels good loaded with full poly.

Ah, thats where I am going wrong. Gut/poly too powerfull. Got some PS Energy on its way so think I will re-string although it pains me to cut out gut!

[KenC]

The PK Ki5 315 is the usual successor to most APD and Pure Drive users who develop arm problems. And when you talk to Ki5 users, once the arm problems go away they never go back to the predecessor.

Even though it has tweenerish specs, it plays more like a players frame. Power is about in the middle between the Pure Drive and the typical players frame, like say the Head Prestige MP. Good spin technique yields great spin, but the most impressive thing about the Ki5 is the level of control that can be had, even at relatively low string tensions.

I came from the opposite end of the spectrum since I used the Pure Storm Ltd. GT, so for me I get more power, maybe a tad more spin, but the control is surprisingly the same. And even if the PK is much more stiff than the PSLGT, it just feels more arm friendly for some reason. It really is a great racquet.

[SystemicAnomaly]

Forget about using RA numbers to tell you if a racquet is arm-friendly. The Volkl V1 Classic has an RA of 69 and yet is the most arm-friendly frame still on the market. It even felt softer than the newer Organix series with lower RA numbers from Volkl. OTOH, I've hears some reports of racquets with RA numbers way down in the 50s that are brutal on the arm.

If think that I'm blowing smoke up your shorts, demo the Volkl V1 Classic racquet from TW. While stiff racqets tend to produce more frame shock, it does not tell the whole story. In the end it is not the stiffness that will determine if the frame will be harsh on your arm -- it is how well the frame shock is dampened or how well it is prevented from reaching your arm.
.

[Ross K]

PP - Have to say I've fancied hitting with a 7G for a while - it does seem to have got great reports.

McLovin - Yes, let me know your thoughts re the X Fast.

Roll, Rob, Keith - I'll read up on my Donnays.

Blue - 03 White... another frame I like sound of and have wondered about before.

Cool - I'll read up on my BBs... BTW, you just reminded me, despite it being mega-soft, the Vantage BC30 was ultimately very harsh for me... go figure!

goran - haha!...

FK - not sure I'm up for a box beam ATM. Hmm...

Ken - right, I'm about to check the TT feedback posts on the 315.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly

Forget about using RA numbers to tell you if a racquet is arm-friendly. The Volkl V1 Classic has an RA of 69 and yet is the most arm-friendly frame still on the market. It even felt softer than the newer Organix series with lower RA numbers from Volkl. OTOH, I've hears some reports of racquets with RA numbers way down in the 50s that are brutal on the arm.

If think that I'm blowing smoke up your shorts, demo the Volkl V1 Classic racquet from TW. While stiff racqets tend to produce more frame shock, it does not tell the whole story. In the end it is not the stiffness that will determine if the frame will be harsh on your arm -- it is how well the frame shock is dampened or how well it is prevented from reaching your arm.
.

Well... as I said re the Vantage BC30 above ^, that frame killed my arm and I think that was in the 50s RA. Still, even if the odd anomalies exist, how else can we get at least a general idea of racket stiffness?

[Fed Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Ross K

PP - Have to say I've fancied hitting with a 7G for a while - it does seem to have got great reports.

McLovin - Yes, let me know your thoughts re the X Fast.

Roll, Rob, Keith - I'll read up on my Donnays.

Blue - 03 White... another frame I like sound of and have wondered about before.

Cool - I'll read up on my BBs... BTW, you just reminded me, despite it being mega-soft, the Vantage BC30 was ultimately very harsh for me... go figure!

goran - haha!...hi

FK - not sure I'm up for a box beam ATM. Hmm...

Ken - right, I'm about to check the TT feedback posts on the 315.

Ross, not sure what you mean by box beam...the xi looks almost identical to the apd except for the iso head...the throat is aero...

[smirker]

Originally Posted by Fed Kennedy

Ross, not sure what you mean by box beam...the xi looks almost identical to the apd except for the iso head...the throat is aero...

Correct, the beam is not full aero like the APD but more of a hybrid of the PD/APD beam shape. Quite a thick beam, similar to PD. Also looking at the new PK Q5 rackets.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by RollTrackTake

tougher question than I thought with some people putting certain racquets in sub-categories but...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100

perfect suggestions!

especially the Formula 100

Ross, you keep ignoring the folks suggestion the Donnay F100.
Seriously, just get one. I promise you its exactly what you are
looking for.

[ArliHawk]

Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.