Finding my strokes after 20 years. Stroke video inside

[Greg G]

Well hopefully this vid shows a bit more coil and leg loading. I think sometimes I get into this extremely open stance. I think I have a slightly better takeback (less wrist cocking), but too late.
Had the racquets restrung after, the ball was just coming off different. Maybe 2 months use is asking too much from Tour Bite...
http://youtu.be/NH2aBjYANnM

Slow motion from front. Better loading, despite moving to the left to hit a forehand?
http://youtu.be/8BPbHIWvtPg

[Greg G]

Finally got to hit after more than a week. Hopefully this shows some improvement. Probably needs more hip turn. Takeback still an issue.

http://youtu.be/NBJqN1pQDxI

Spent some time running around the backhand to hit inside out forehands. Apparently most of the time, I end up using a linear weight transfer! @_@

http://youtu.be/5ztRuXiIZmI

Perhaps I should drop hit some balls from the ad side first, rather than live hitting...

[Cheetah]

regarding the inside out fh... BOOOOOOO!!!

[Greg G]

I know, right?

[5263]

Originally Posted by Greg G

I know, right?

I disagree and think it is fine overall. Maybe not perfect, but who is.
You step the the left dubs line and hit to the right. That is pretty open and
gives you a pretty good rt to left shift. A little linear mo can work on the I/O
due to long court and low net, so just don't over cook it.

Important thing is you stepped to a good contact pt given the time and space
you had to work with imo.
??

[Cheetah]

yes it's fine overall. i guess.
but i'm trying to push this guy...

You should have your hitting partner let you just practice i/o fh's drills for 10mins. If you don't practice that skill then you will keep doing what you're currently doing. I'll bet 1 10 min session would benefit you.

A few points:
. What I see is that basically you just hit a regular linear momentum fh to the right side of the court. It wasn't an 'inside out' stroke. It looked like a regular fh with your body just pointed to the right side of the court.
I would say that you didn't even hit the inside of the ball right? You hit it straight.

An inside out fh ideally should be hit on the inside of the ball. this will give some outside curve. It should also be hit w/ more laid back wrist than a cc fh and with a later contact point than a cc. but as you can your wrist is in your normal position. The above 2 points also enable you to disguise the shot better. It totally looks like you are going to the ad side so it's telegraphed.

. Another thing I can see, because I've seen all your vids and have mentioned this before, is that I can tell you are doing your 'lateral movement along the baseline only thing'. The court inside the baseline won't burn your feet. It's safe to go there. You like to just go side to side pretty much and don't step inside to cut off the angles or take it on the rise.
The ball that was hit to you here is quite short. We don't see the first bounce and if you didnt hit it would have hit the baseline. That means it was a weak, short, non penetrating ball. You were already close to the doubles alley when the ball was hit to you so you had plenty of time to get in better position for the hit but you stayed behind the baseline until the very last step and hit ball on the way down. I/O's should be taken on the rise if possible.

. Footwork was good and worked fine. But higher level footwork would have been a big split step and a reverse crossover or a split and a shuffle (at an angle into the court) and they would have been waiting for the ball.

The steps you took worked (except you stayed behind baseline) but if your first step was a full reverse crossover you would have been all the way over there in 1 step much quicker and easier and then you would have had more time to do an adjustment step. Reverse crossovers are great. You can cover a LOT of area with 1 reverse step.

. I suspect you didnt do a split step right? That's why the vid starts after the ball was hit no? cheater.

. You should try to get to the hitting location before the ball gets there. Many ppl get to the hitting location the same time as the ball.

. Look at your feet and body at the end of the vid. You are just about out of the court, feet and body pointing out of the court.
So because your lateral movement and linear stroke up the middle type of shot you have no built in recovery. The whole court is open now and you're in the doubles lane.

So to summarize:
With a split step and a quick step inside the court you would have been able to:
be waiting for the ball in an open stance
take the ball on the rise
hit i/o
have built in recovery because you'd be pushing of the left leg from the end of the open stance hit

thanks.

[Greg G]

No worries 5263, I'm cool with the tough love from Cheetah. Though I do appreciate the positive feedback from you as well

I think all the slow shadowing of the takeback at home has rubbed off on the court! And the takeback still isn't where we want it to be! The elbow position is the key, I think I need to raise it some more on the takeback.

Yes I do need to improve on the movement. Video is nice because I'd never believe the mistakes until I see it for myself.

Will work on the inside out. Been working on the crosscourt too long, which is probably why my hips are not coiled enough, I got the habit of keeping them too open. I do feel that I'm regressing though- the shape of the arc is flattening out, and my net clearance is lower. Perhaps this is the evidence of poor loading of the right leg, that has crept in.

Uploaded some fresh match play vids. I do need to cut off the angles more and take charge of the center of the court, otherwise I'll just get jerked around. Anyway I posted it here and not the court sense thread, to show the footwork.

http://youtu.be/ln31IRENrsM

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Finally got to hit after more than a week. Hopefully this shows some improvement. Probably needs more hip turn. Takeback still an issue.

http://youtu.be/NBJqN1pQDxI

Spent some time running around the backhand to hit inside out forehands. Apparently most of the time, I end up using a linear weight transfer! @_@

http://youtu.be/5ztRuXiIZmI

Perhaps I should drop hit some balls from the ad side first, rather than live hitting...

In regards to the takeback, just try two things...First, DO lead back with the elbow (it will help keep your arm from externally rotating, wrist extending). It's a requirement for a more ATP type backswing.

Next, with your elbow slightly elevated and leading, turn your thumb downward (slight pronation) as you step up to the top of the backswing. (right now, you are supinating/fanning the racquet open in the backswing)

Contrary to most posts here,,,,,this will actually shorten your backswing, and keep the racquet/hand to the right side/inline with the path of the ball. And most importantly, it will help close the racquet face and find a more "pat the dog" position as you lay the racquet down.

Look again at what Pat D is working on with girl in the second video...

[Greg G]

Thanks chico! Will keep that in mind. Sometimes I really feel I've changed it, then video shows me otherwise >.<

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Thanks chico! Will keep that in mind. Sometimes I really feel I've changed it, then video shows me otherwise >.<

You've made excellent progress in a short time, particularly your contact point and your finish. But, your set up and takeback are still suffering from old habits. I've said all this several times before, but, I also understand that acceptance preceeds change.

You need to first accept the premise that your swing is generated by two techniques: (1) upper body rotation, and (2) arm supination and pronation. Ideally there should be virtually no independent swinging of the arm from the shoulder or the elbow. With your arm and racquet set, and your left hand on the throat of the racquet and the racquet head right in front of your face, you pivot until your chest and racquet face are facing 4 O'Clock. That is your takeback in its totality! Your arm and racquet have not moved. They can't because your left hand is still on the throat of the racquet. The racquet is pointing straight up and the face at 4 O'Clock (not pointing back at the back fence, and not with an open racquet face pointing to the roof). From there, you initiate your unit turn forward with your right hip and that movement causes the racquet head to drop back.

But, you are still taking a high looping takeback with your arm (elbow and shoulder joints) independent of your "unit turn," and your unit turn is totally insufficient. AND, IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE AN ADEQUATE UNIT TURN YOU NEED A LOWER, WIDER STANCE. Further, you are leading your backswing with the racquet head, squandering the racquet acceleration of waiting for your forward turn to supinate and then pronate before contact, and the racquet face is open to the roof. Those three habits: (1) upright narrow stance, (2) takeback with the arm, and (3) leading the takeback with an open racquet face, are a ceiling on further improvement.

IMO, if you employ a measure of discipline by keeping your left hand on the throat of the racquet until you are ready to initiate your unit turn forward, it will go a long way, if not all the way, in curing your remaining bad habits.

PS: What chico says about turning your thumb downward, I interpret and pointing your racquet face back toward the back fence. I agree with that, but, don't overdo it. If you can get it to 4 O'Clock, that is sufficient, IMO. I reject the notion of purposely raising your elbow in the backswing, even a small amount. That is a slippery slope that may lead to a flying elbow which will only complicate the swing and add an unecessary variable that will impair consistent clean ball striking, and serves no useful purpose. At the completion of your unit turn, YOUR HAND should be hitting the wall behind you, not your elbow, AND NOT YOUR RACQUET HEAD. To be clear, if, at the completion of your tackback, your elbow is IN and FORWARD (where it must be at the beginning of your unit turn forward anyway), and your racquet head is STRAIGHT UP, and your arm and grip are loose and relaxed, inertia will cause the arm to supinate and the racquet head to drop down below the hand when you initiate your unit turn forward with the kinetic chain beginning with your hip rotation ala The L&R Guy.

But, the success of all of that is dependent on a proper takeback and being in the correct set up position (stance, unit turn and racquet position), as I describe above, before you initiate the kinetic chain.

[Greg G]

Thanks Limpinhitter! I do accept the principles of it, in my mind at least. Translating it into actual practice is proving to be a real bear. In front of the mirror I can shadow it perfectly. On a court, it's an effort to not slide back into old muscle memory. I will keep pluggin away at it, till it does become the new muscle memory.

I did go back to the L&R video, and am re-reading this entire thread. I am most likely over thinking on the court. Played doubles today, and I noted how unconscious I was hitting my backhand, in stark contrast to all the thoughts going on when hitting a forehand. I suppose sheer repetition will sort that out- but I have to make sure the form is correct, or else it'll just compound the situation.

Playing around with string setup probably wasn't the best idea too, while working on this.

[5263]

Originally Posted by Greg G

No worries 5263, I'm cool with the tough love from Cheetah. Though I do appreciate the positive feedback from you as well

http://youtu.be/ln31IRENrsM

Yes, I get what a good thing you have working with Cheetah and Limpin, and
am always amazed at what a great student you are!
Most don't take the constructive and not so constructive comments so well.

[Djoker91]

Looking very decent. Just remember to drag the racket head across the strike zone, don't muscle it. And you don't have to step into every shot either. Sit and lift. Use knees. This will give you some great rotational energy when you push off the ground, and give you better timing as you have longer to prepare and don't have to time that forward step

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Thanks Limpinhitter! I do accept the principles of it, in my mind at least. Translating it into actual practice is proving to be a real bear. In front of the mirror I can shadow it perfectly. On a court, it's an effort to not slide back into old muscle memory. I will keep pluggin away at it, till it does become the new muscle memory.

I did go back to the L&R video, and am re-reading this entire thread. I am most likely over thinking on the court. Played doubles today, and I noted how unconscious I was hitting my backhand, in stark contrast to all the thoughts going on when hitting a forehand. I suppose sheer repetition will sort that out- but I have to make sure the form is correct, or else it'll just compound the situation.

Playing around with string setup probably wasn't the best idea too, while working on this.

Cross court drills with a partner or machine. Keep your left hand on the throat of the racquet until you are ready to turn forward.

[5263]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

Cross court drills with a partner or machine. Keep your left hand on the throat of the racquet until you are ready to turn forward.

I like to do a partner drill like this where one is working on the attack I/O and the
other partner is working on defending with a more defensive shot that sets up another
I/O for you. Sometimes you can repeat this quite a few with the same ball.
After a few switch roles.

[Greg G]

I'm thinking of trying the Spanish style hand fed drills for a change. Maybe it'll wake up the footwork. Or kill my legs, whichever comes first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JGNXnd7SOk

This looks like a good workout!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKLERRqETV0

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Greg G

I'm thinking of trying the Spanish style hand fed drills for a change. Maybe it'll wake up the footwork. Or kill my legs, whichever comes first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JGNXnd7SOk

This looks like a good workout!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKLERRqETV0

Probably a good idea. As aimr75 says, it takes 5,000 repititions to learn a new stroke. As Ash Smith says, they have to be correct repititions. IMO, you're better off starting with hand fed or machine fed balls so that you don't have to focus as much on your footwork and movement and can just focus on technique. I also like shaddow swinging. But, I caution against shaddow swinging in front of a mirror which distracts your attention from what you are "feeling" which is all you have on the court.

[Greg G]

Video from today's hit. Was away for a week, so I really didn't feel like doing the hand fed balls today. Spent most of the practice time on the ad side. Mostly inside out FH, I hope there is some improvement. The thumb down suggestion really helped the takeback (at least that's the feeling I got).

http://youtu.be/JucNNtiKYPA

Slow motion. The left hand still wants to push the racquet face back, but the thumb down tip kind of counteracts it.

http://youtu.be/2ED-daWyOKo


Played 2 sets afterwards, and the forehand was just gone. One of those days. On the bright side, I found my slice serve! I (re)discovered that the body weight direction has a lot to do with the direction of the serve! Still, the groundies were really bad, and I ended up chipping and charging in the second set. Lost 6-1, 6-4.

On a side note: Am really trying to give the Lux Alu Power 16L a chance, but the dead Tour Bite 17 felt better than this. There's a lot less pop- and bite. Maybe it's really not for me... excuses, excuses eh?

[LeeD]

Alu power seems best when you hit hard without too much topspin. No feel on every other shot.
You hit really well when you can get to the ball. Not a fan of lifting your left foot on almost every forehand, or the strange slice backhand, old school topspin backhand.....
Seems you lose balance when forced to move quickly or 3 steps, and form falls apart.