Why Nadal is better than Fed. - Page 2

Netspirit · 10-05-2012, 12:18 PM

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Nadal fans also believe his voice sounds better.

dangalak · 10-05-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoledman

We all know how dominant they are on their best surfaces. Nadal on clay. Federer on hard/grass. But how well do they do on their weakest?

Nadal has 10 big hard/grass titles
Federer has 7 big clay titles

But more importantly is Nadal has 4 grass/hard slams to only 1 clay slam for Federer.

4 > 1.

Considering the FH to Federer's BH, winning 1 FO is pretty impressive.

Also, didn't know that HC/grass were one surface.

BHud · 10-05-2012, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoledman

But more importantly is Nadal has 4 grass/hard slams to only 1 clay slam for Federer.

4 > 1.

Given that 3 of the 4 slams are on hard or grass, wouldn't you expect this to be the case? Nice logic, no?

Give it up...Nads is not deserving of being in the discussion for best player of all time (an honor Fed has earned)...yet. He has been a tremendous career #2 man though, no?

World Beater · 10-05-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

What's his trophy cabinet like compared to Nadal's?

oh. i thought this was purely h-h.

trophy cabinet?

well in that case. federer is 6 slams ahead of nadal.

thats like federer= nadal + becker

lol.

Sartorius · 10-05-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

Nadal leads the head-to-head against:

Federer 18-10 (8-2 in majors)
Djokovic 19-14 (6-3 in majors)
Murray 13-5 (6-2 in majors)

Nadal has the most ridiculous clay-court dominance, and has also won the career Grand Slam. He also had a period of winning 8 titles in 4 months from April to August 2008.

Impressive as these feats might be, given the context of this thread, this really begs for the question: So what? (I don't see the OP as a worthy discussion)

The main discussion about Federer and Nadal will always see people who are dancing around their h2h, and those who claim h2h does not necessarily make a player better, or the best. I myself support the latter view.

Mustard · 10-05-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World Beater

oh. i thought this was purely h-h.

trophy cabinet?

well in that case. federer is 6 slams ahead of nadal.

thats like federer= nadal + becker

lol.

Nadal has had such an excellent career and that is combined with his excellent head-to-heads against his biggest rivals. Federer has the better overall achievements, but has had a losing head-to-head against Nadal since 2005 and also has a losing head-to-head against Murray. Even Djokovic is closer to Federer than Nadal in head-to-head.

I am just stating Nadal's case

gmatheis · 10-05-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

Nadal has had such an excellent career and that is combined with his excellent head-to-heads against his biggest rivals. Federer has the better overall achievements, but has had a losing head-to-head against Nadal since 2005 and also has a losing head-to-head against Murray. Even Djokovic is closer to Federer than Nadal in head-to-head.

I am just stating Nadal's case

Nadal's head to head against federer is misleading because federer almost always makes it far enough to meet nadal in the draw but nadal often doesn't make it far enough to meet federer.

So the times when nadal wasnt playing a great tournament and would likely have lost to federer he doesn't even make it that far.

BUT

When Federer is playing a sub par tournament he still makes it to Nadal but then loses.

Mustard · 10-05-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmatheis

Nadal's head to head against federer is misleading because federer almost always makes it far enough to meet nadal in the draw but nadal often doesn't make it far enough to meet federer.

The 2010 and 2011 Wimbledons and US Opens say otherwise.

Cup8489 · 10-05-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

The 2010 and 2011 Wimbledons and US Opens say otherwise.

Oh yes... post prime Federer has the obligation to make USO finals after his peak but Nadal doesn't do it until the last 2 years during his.. Great Logic. Where was Nadal for the preceding 4 years of him winning majors?

jokinla · 10-05-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World Beater

oh. i thought this was purely h-h.

trophy cabinet?

well in that case. federer is 6 slams ahead of nadal.

thats like federer= nadal + becker

lol.

Or Fed = Nads, Djoker, Murray.

Mustard · 10-05-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cup8489

Oh yes... post prime Federer has the obligation to make USO finals after his peak but Nadal doesn't do it until the last 2 years during his.. Great Logic. Where was Nadal for the preceding 4 years of him winning majors?

Post-prime Federer in 2010-2011 means pre-prime Nadal in 2005-2007.

TMF · 10-05-2012, 05:56 PM

The h2h between Fed and Nadal is pointless/meaningless because they are 5 years apart. We should compare player's h2h when both are at the same age, same prime/peak years.

Nadal should be comparing to Nole, Murray or Monfils. And Fed should be comparing to Roddick, Davy or Hewitt. Now let see who has a better winning % between Fed and Nadal.

TMF · 10-05-2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

Post-prime Federer in 2010-2011 means pre-prime Nadal in 2005-2007.

Nadal won 11 titles in 2005. Fed never came close in winning that much in those two years combined.

90's Clay · 10-05-2012, 06:09 PM

Nadal has enjoyed a nice advantage over his main rivals throughout his career. Something Fed can't say.

Djoker got the best of him last year, and Nadal stopped that this year. Nadal has had the h2h advantage over Fed since 2005 and has not been able to beat Nadal at a slam in five years.. Thats a long freakin time

The only thing that stopped Nadal was injuries.. Something no other player could consistently do

TMF · 10-05-2012, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

Nadal has enjoyed a nice advantage over his main rivals throughout his career. Something Fed can't say.

Djoker got the best of him last year, and Nadal stopped that this year. Nadal has had the h2h advantage over Fed since 2005 and has not been able to beat Nadal at a slam in five years.. Thats a long freakin time

The only thing that stopped Nadal was injuries.. Something no other player could consistently do

??????????????????????????????????

Just to name a few players Fed has a winning h2h:

Gonzalez 12-1
Hewitt 18-8
Davy 17-2
Roddick 21-3
Ljubicic 13-3

Now let see how Nadal h2h records against his main rivals.

Mustard · 10-05-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMF

??????????????????????????????????

Just to name a few players Fed has a winning h2h:

Gonzalez 12-1
Hewitt 18-8
Davy 17-2
Roddick 21-3
Ljubicic 13-3

Now let see how Nadal h2h records against his main rivals.

Some of Nadal head-to-heads:

Federer 18-10
Djokovic 19-14
Murray 13-5
Ferrer 16-4
Berdych 12-3
Soderling 6-2
Youzhny 9-4
Verdasco 13-1
Gasquet 10-0
Monfils 8-2
Hewitt 6-4
Roddick 7-3
Coria 4-1
Nalbandian 4-2
Davydenko 5-6
Ljubicic 7-2
Ferrero 7-2
Moya 6-2
Blake 4-3
Safin 2-0
Agassi 2-0
Fish 8-1
Ancic 4-1
Baghdatis 7-1
Stepanek 6-0
Wawrinka 8-0
Almagro 8-0
Lopez 9-2
Del Potro 7-3
Tsonga 7-3
Gonzalez 7-3
Haas 5-0
Kiefer 5-0
Ivanisevic 2-0
Norman 1-0
Henman 2-0
Gaudio 3-3
Schuettler 5-1
Robredo 6-0

TMF · 10-05-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

Some of Nadal head-to-heads:

Federer 18-10
Djokovic 19-14
Murray 13-5
Ferrer 16-4
Berdych 12-3
Soderling 6-2
Youzhny 9-4
Verdasco 13-1
Gasquet 10-0
Monfils 8-2
Hewitt 6-4
Roddick 7-3
Coria 4-1
Nalbandian 4-2
Davydenko 5-6
Ljubicic 7-2
Ferrero 7-2
Moya 6-2
Blake 4-3
Safin 2-0
Agassi 2-0
Fish 8-1
Ancic 4-1
Baghdatis 7-1
Stepanek 6-0
Wawrinka 8-0
Almagro 8-0
Lopez 9-2
Del Potro 7-3
Tsonga 7-3
Gonzalez 7-3
Haas 5-0
Kiefer 5-0
Ivanisevic 2-0
Norman 1-0
Henman 2-0
Gaudio 3-3
Schuettler 5-1
Robredo 6-0

Some of the players I don't agee. i.e. Haas, Henman is much older than Nadal. Agassi is old enough to be his father.

But you noticed some of the player like Davy, Blake, Youznhy.....Fed was much better record against them.

Now you know how wrong it is to compare player's h2h when the age gap is too far off.

The_Order · 10-05-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surecatch

Fed is one of the best ever on all three surfaces. Nadal is one of the best ever on one.

No, Nadal is categorically the best on clay. Nobody comes close to his record on clay.

On grass, there are a few that could be in contention to challenge Federer's status, which is why Fed is NOT categorically the best player ever on grass.

With HC, it's a little hard to tell because the HC at the AO is different to the HC at the USO. At the AO, Fed is clearly not the best ever, especially when it changed to plexicushion.

USO he is also not clearly above every other player that's ever played on the decoturf II.

Prisoner of Birth · 10-05-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Order

No, Nadal is categorically the best on clay. Nobody comes close to his record on clay.

On grass, there are a few that could be in contention to challenge Federer's status, which is why Fed is NOT categorically the best player ever on grass.

With HC, it's a little hard to tell because the HC at the AO is different to the HC at the USO. At the AO, Fed is clearly not the best ever, especially when it changed to plexicushion.

USO he is also not clearly above every other player that's ever played on the decoturf II.

On Grass, only Sampras competes. With that said, Federer does have the win over Sampras at Wimbledon (though I don't think it really means much, seeing that it was a very close match when neither of them was close to their primes), the extra Wimbledon final, and the Olympic Silver. I personally think Sampras is (was) the better Grasscourter but Federer does have the better claim to being the GGCOAT.

Coming to hard, come on, it's not even close. 5 USOs, no one's got more. 4 AOs, no one's got more. 6 WTF titles, no one's got more. And look at all his Masters titles there. If you're gonna say Federer isn't that great on plexicushion, you'd be wrong. It was changed when he was past his prime and he still won there once. And you can't just disregard his success on Rebound Ace. You could make the same argument to denigrate Nadal's dominance on clay saying he sucked on Blue Clay by the same token.

Either way, Federer's one of the best Grasscourters ever (if not the best), one of the best Hardcourters ever (if not the best), and arguably the 2nd best Claycourter of his era (second only to the GOAT). And Nadal's just the best Claycourter ever.

firepanda · 10-05-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

Some of Nadal head-to-heads:

Federer 18-10
Djokovic 19-14
Murray 13-5
Ferrer 16-4
Berdych 12-3
Soderling 6-2
Youzhny 9-4
Verdasco 13-1
Gasquet 10-0
Monfils 8-2
Hewitt 6-4
Roddick 7-3
Coria 4-1
Nalbandian 4-2
Davydenko 5-6
Ljubicic 7-2
Ferrero 7-2
Moya 6-2
Blake 4-3
Safin 2-0
Agassi 2-0
Fish 8-1
Ancic 4-1
Baghdatis 7-1
Stepanek 6-0
Wawrinka 8-0
Almagro 8-0
Lopez 9-2
Del Potro 7-3
Tsonga 7-3
Gonzalez 7-3
Haas 5-0
Kiefer 5-0
Ivanisevic 2-0
Norman 1-0
Henman 2-0
Gaudio 3-3
Schuettler 5-1
Robredo 6-0

Good man Davydenko.

10-05-2012, 05:56 PM	#32
TMF G.O.A.T. Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13,594	The h2h between Fed and Nadal is pointless/meaningless because they are 5 years apart. We should compare player's h2h when both are at the same age, same prime/peak years. Nadal should be comparing to Nole, Murray or Monfils. And Fed should be comparing to Roddick, Davy or Hewitt. Now let see who has a better winning % between Fed and Nadal. __________________ NadalAgassi: I think Serena's final slam tally will be something from 18-27. My best guess is 24 or 25 though; Nole(2010) will never win Wimbledon

10-05-2012, 06:09 PM	#34
90's Clay Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,322	Nadal has enjoyed a nice advantage over his main rivals throughout his career. Something Fed can't say. Djoker got the best of him last year, and Nadal stopped that this year. Nadal has had the h2h advantage over Fed since 2005 and has not been able to beat Nadal at a slam in five years.. Thats a long freakin time The only thing that stopped Nadal was injuries.. Something no other player could consistently do Last edited by 90's Clay : 10-05-2012 at 06:12 PM.

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