Better backhand currently: Federer or Nadal?

[TTMR]

Originally Posted by tennis_pro

That's because most of their rallies are Nadal's forehand to Federer's backhand

Why are most of their rallies this way? Federer, who is better at everything according to his fans, and is the more aggressive player, should be the one dictating play and sending his forehands to Nadal's backhand much more than vice-versa. Federer has the better serve: he should be following up Nadal's weak returns (remember, Nadal is a "terrible returner") by pounding the short return to Nadal's backhand over and over again. Yet the rallies almost always--via some unseen demonic force--reverse and Nadal ends up being the one in control dictating play and attacking the Federer backhand.

while I think Federer's backhand can live with Nadal's forehand on faster surfaces, especially indoors, on clay it's a tough task.

The fact that Federer needs a fast surface to realize his backhand is an argument against the strength of Federer's backhand, not for it. On a fast indoor surface Federer can flick the ball down the line using the other guy's pace for a winner. On a slow court, he can't generate sufficient pace most of the time to hit backhand winners. When he hits them it is by redirecting a hard hit ball from a perfect angle. He has to run around a not very hard hit short ball to hit a forehand because he cannot generate the power needed on his backhand.

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by TTMR

Why are most of their rallies this way? Federer, who is better at everything according to his fans, and is the more aggressive player, should be the one dictating play and sending his forehands to Nadal's backhand much more than vice-versa. Federer has the better serve: he should be following up Nadal's weak returns (remember, Nadal is a "terrible returner") by pounding the short return to Nadal's backhand over and over again. Yet the rallies almost always--via some unseen demonic force--reverse and Nadal ends up being the one in control dictating play and attacking the Federer backhand.

Federer has to be incredibly aggressive to dominate Nadal. (i.e. stand in his BH corner and drill forehands)

Nadal can just wail away from his forehand corner and hit an I/O FH when he pleases.

And please, stop making up strawman FGS. He is a decent returner, especially when Federer's serve is concerned. His passing shots also make it difficult when Federer has a shorter ball, something he would easily follow to the net if he faced another player.

[TTMR]

Originally Posted by dangalak

Federer has to be incredibly aggressive to dominate Nadal. (i.e. stand in his BH corner and drill forehands)

Nadal can just wail away from his forehand corner and hit an I/O FH when he pleases.

And please, stop making up strawman FGS. He is a decent returner, especially when Federer's serve is concerned. His passing shots also make it difficult when Federer has a shorter ball, something he would easily follow to the net if he faced another player.

I know you are giving Nadal credit on his returns, speed and passing shots, but most Federer fans here do not. I am attacking their positions as well.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by faranell

Ok. im kinda new here so i dunno but how come 90% of the threads are polls like "who has better fh?" "who has better bh" "better shoes" "nicest hair"..
whats the point?

The point, faranell, is this:

1. Many of the most active posters here (those who start threads) are previously banned posters returning under new usernames.
2. They have time. Lots of time.
3. They have nothing better to do than to spend every waking hour on an internet forum.

Eg. The OP has been on the forum for less than a month. During that time, he has started 25 threads and has more than 450 posts.

So, what does one do? One can ignore users but there is no tool to prevent us from seeing this explosive diarrhoea of inane threads. So, you just try to go away from the forums for weeks at a time. When you come back, you discover that you've missed nothing. Works for me all the time.

Or better, just go to the Racquets subforum. That is still a saner forum than General Pro Player discussion and Pro-Match Results.

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by TTMR

The fact that Federer needs a fast surface to realize his backhand is an argument against the strength of Federer's backhand, not for it. On a fast indoor surface Federer can flick the ball down the line using the other guy's pace for a winner. On a slow court, he can't generate sufficient pace most of the time to hit backhand winners. When he hits them it is by redirecting a hard hit ball from a perfect angle. He has to run around a not very hard hit short ball to hit a forehand because he cannot generate the power needed on his backhand.

I dunno, he can certainly create pace as well. Just not very often off Nadal's balls.

Originally Posted by Polaris

The point, faranell, is this:

1. Many of the most active posters here (those who start threads) are previously banned posters returning under new usernames.
2. They have time. Lots of time.
3. They have nothing better to do than to spend every waking hour on an internet forum.

Eg. The OP has been on the forum for less than a month. During that time, he has started 25 threads and has more than 450 posts.

So, what does one do? One can ignore users but there is no tool to prevent us from seeing this explosive diarrhoea of inane threads. So, you just try to go away from the forums for weeks at a time. When you come back, you discover that you've missed nothing. Work for me all the time.

Or better, just go to the Racquets subforum. That is still a saner forum than General Pro Player discussion and Pro-Match Results.

I have been banned true, but I didn't need to make a dupe, they just unbanned me.

What's wrong with comparing their current BHs? Clearly there is some room for dicussion.

Why is diarrhea always referred to as "explosive"? I don't think I've ever smashed a toilet after a burrito.

[GOAT BAAH!!!]

The Nadal backhand has declined considerably in the passed couple of years...wonder how much has to do with how aggressively he planted on the right knee from a full sprint to achieve the torque necessary to rip it cross court

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE_RqaEsBiM

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

In terms of forehand shot, Federer and Nadal's are both great. I would give the slight edge to Federer.

Backhand shot, probably about equal but Federer has more variety.

Movement--if you are talking footwork, Federer is better; if you are talking sheer athleticism and defence, Nadal is much better, one of the best ever in the game.

[kragster]

Right now Fed's BH is easily a lot more potent than Nadal's. Only during the 08 Wimby to 09 AO period and then USO 10, did Rafa's BH look like a killer weapon. Otherwise I would take Fed's BH any day. Of course Djoker and Murray are in a different league altogether in the BH department, just like Fed/Rafa are in a different league in the FH dept.

[tennis_pro]

Originally Posted by beast of mallorca

then that means the rallies are being controlled by Rafa. Why can't Fed change the character of their rallies then and impose himself if he if so darn good ?

Try hitting a shoulder height one-handed backhand and you'll get your answer.

[tennis_pro]

Originally Posted by TTMR

I know you are giving Nadal credit on his returns, speed and passing shots, but most Federer fans here do not. I am attacking their positions as well.

I do as well. Just because I never talk about it (or Federer fans in general), it doesn't mean that I don't give him any credit.

[Federer20042006]

Federer actually did pound Nadal's backhand to great effect in Indian Wells this year.

But historically, Federer's forehand hasn't troubled Nadal's backhand that much. Not because Nadal has a better backhand, but because Federer's forehand doesn't force errors the way Nadal's forehand does. Federer hits flatter and tries to hit around/through you. Nadal just wears Federer's backhand down with shots that jump to heights outside his comfort zone.

It's kind of like how Nadal's serve gives Federer so much trouble in comparison to Federer's serve vs. Nadal. It's just different styles causing different problems. I doubt anyone thinks Nadal has a better serve than Federer.

Nadal does and always has moved better than Federer, though. Nadal's recovery is unparalleled.

[tusharlovesrafa]

Originally Posted by Zarfot Z

What?

Nadal, by far. Much more consistent, less prone to shanking and a more solid shot overall.

Federer has the worst backhand in the top 4. It's obviously still a hellavashot, but there is no way it is better than Nadal's.

Nope.Fed's backhand is still better on fast surfaces.And he could still come up with great shots from time to time.IMO Nadal is more consistent but at times it lacks penetration.

[okdude1992]

nadal's backhand I honestly think has gotten worse. It looked incredible when he won the AO a few years back, but in 2011 and somewhat this year, his backhand was shaky. Federer's has declined also. That shot used to be a weapon. But as of now I say Fed, becasue all round he played better in 2011, and most of 2012

[Federer20042006]

Originally Posted by TTMR

The fact that Federer needs a fast surface to realize his backhand is an argument against the strength of Federer's backhand, not for it. On a fast indoor surface Federer can flick the ball down the line using the other guy's pace for a winner. On a slow court, he can't generate sufficient pace most of the time to hit backhand winners. When he hits them it is by redirecting a hard hit ball from a perfect angle. He has to run around a not very hard hit short ball to hit a forehand because he cannot generate the power needed on his backhand.

That's not even remotely true. Nadal doesn't feed him pace with the CC forehand, yet when they're on a low bouncing surface, Federer kills him with his backhand.

And maybe you missed him drilling backhand winners all match long against Tomic at the AO this year?

Federer's got all the power in the world off his backhand, so long as it's in his strike zone.

[winstonplum]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

Federer has the better forehand, is a better server, volleyer, and we can call their backhands a wash. However, until 2011 Nadal was the best mover on the tour, and one of the greatest retrievers of seemingly irretrievable balls in the history of the game. Nadal also has extremely good hands for soft angle shots up at the net; not necessarily volleys, but pick-ups, re-directions and the like, perhaps more so than Federer. Nadal also had, up until the last year and a half, a spectacular overhead. And ultimately and most importantly, from the very beginning in KB in 2004, Nadal had total belief that he was good enough to beat Federer, which approximately zero percent of the other players on the tour had.

[dangalak]

Originally Posted by winstonplum

Federer has the better forehand, is a better server, volleyer, and we can call their backhands a wash. However, until 2011 Nadal was the best mover on the tour, and one of the greatest retrievers of seemingly irretrievable balls in the history of the game. Nadal also has extremely good hands for soft angle shots up at the net; not necessarily volleys, but pick-ups, re-directions and the like, perhaps more so than Federer. Nadal also had, up until the last year and a half, a spectacular overhead. And ultimately and most importantly, from the very beginning in KB in 2004, Nadal had total belief that he was good enough to beat Federer, which approximately zero percent of the other players on the tour had.

Nalbandian, for one, never lacked belief that he could beat Federer. This comparison of Federer with Mike Tyson and that people were beaten before they stepped on court is an exeggaration. Some did, but not all. Not to mention, people didn't just start to fear him after he cut off his ponytail or something. They didn't believe they could beat him, because in all likelihood, they couldn't. Everybody saw the demolition jobs he was capable of.

And I disagree with some of your observations. Nadal never had the soft hands that Federer has. (just watch his match against Tomic in AO) But he typically is extremely calm in such situations, moreso than Roger.

I disagree that Federer's BH and Nadal's is a wash. Federer's is superior. Saying their forehands is a wash would be more accurate.

[JMR]

Originally Posted by TTMR

Why are most of their rallies this way? Federer, who is better at everything according to his fans, and is the more aggressive player, should be the one dictating play and sending his forehands to Nadal's backhand much more than vice-versa.

This is all pretty straightforward, and has been understood by most people (by which I mean fans, pundits, and Fed and Nadal themselves for years):

Federer FH > Nadal FH (slightly)
Federer BH > Nadal BH
but
Nadal FH > Federer BH
and most important,
Nadal pattern imposition > Federer pattern imposition.

The last statement means that Nadal is superior at imposing a repetitive pattern of play, namely, his forehand to Fed's backhand in baseline rallies. There are two main reasons for this superiority: First, Nadal has a simpler game, so he doesn't really lose anything by hitting the same shot over and over. If the single shot employed is good -- and Nadal's is very, very good -- then the more the merrier for Nadal. In both tennis and table tennis, heavy topspin has always been a repetitive, grind-'em-down tool. In contrast, Federer's greater reliance on variety means that he diminishes his own effectiveness by becoming repetitive, even if that approach also hurts his opponent somewhat. A predictable Fed is a lesser Fed.

Second, Nadal is better-equipped psychologically to lock into a single groove for much of a match. He's more dogged than Federer, more obsessive and consistent, and less concerned about aesthetics.

[NadalAgassi]

If Federer had the better forehand and better backhand than the Federer forehand vs Nadal backhand rallies would be even worse for Nadal than the Nadal forehand vs Federer backhand rallies which is far from the case. In fact in most of their matches Nadal's backhand more than holds it own vs Federer's forehand in those exchanges, while the Nadal forehand dominates the Federer backhand. Yet despite this Federer amazingly has the superior forehand, superior backhand, superior movement (according to most ****s, just look at the better mover polls between them), and superior all else from the baseline, even while getting owned from the baseline in 85% of their matches, including a number of his wins. Planet **** is truly a great comedy land.

[tudwell]

Nadal's forehand is more consistent and less prone to errors, but it's also less of a weapon. In 2008-2009, Nadal's backhand was incredible. He hit the most insane flat crosscourt winners off of it no matter how wide he was pulled. But he's always struggled taking it down the line and adding variety.

Federer, on the other hand, has a lot of variety, but his backhand breaks down more. I think they both fit their respective games very well. If push came to shove, I'd rather have Federer's backhand than Nadal's, but it's a close call.

[smoledman]

Theoretically a lefty should always have the advantage on a righty.