confused w/ the term "MTM"

[JW10S]

Originally Posted by 5263

Ok, you have your own words to
describe what Oscar described while you were in kindergarten.

Pathetic. No, I don't have my own words for 'pulling backwards', 'hitting off-center', 'ignoring the importance of footwork', 'count to 5', 'find the ball', or any of the other things I've read about on this site--as I said, I don't use them at all. And no, I don't teach to swing down the target line, nor do I teach to 'pull across'. In typical MTM fashion you seem to believe it can only be one or the other--but you're so wrong. As I've said many times there is more than one way to effectively hit a tennis ball, some of which you apparently know nothing about.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by 5263

Yes, basically hacks that tried to make classic work as actually taught

No, not hacks who were actually taught, but hacks who either were not taught or took lessons with no result, but just for the sake of taking them (and maybe to get fit or whatever, nothing wrong with that). Only people who do not have any form are unable to adapt to anything, even if they have been seeing it around them for 20 years. That, plus a complete lack of curiosity. I actually knew a woman who had been taking lessons for 3 years but would not slice because her coach told her she was not ready to learn it. She actually believed it.

In this particular case of the guy who approached me for instruction in topspin, he has purchased a $1600 ball machine and gotten "serious." Apparently, his seriousness was driven by observing the daughter of the other guy who has gone off to college last month on a tennis scholarship. He finally realized that people are not hitting forehands the way he is doing it.

I didn't tell him, but I should have said: Haven't you played against me a 100 times over the years? Did you not see that every shot I hit is with topspin? Go take some lessons from 5263 who will package it under modern tennis and you will have the pleasure of paying him

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by JW10S

Pathetic. No, I don't have my own words for 'pulling backwards', 'hitting off-center', 'ignoring the importance of footwork', 'count to 5', 'find the ball', or any of the other things I've read about on this site--as I said, I don't use them at all. And no, I don't teach to swing down the target line, nor do I teach to 'pull across'. In typical MTM fashion you seem to believe it can only be one or the other--but you're so wrong. As I've said many times there is more than one way to effectively hit a tennis ball, some of which you apparently know nothing about.

Just run to the ball like a child and be one with it.

[5263]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I didn't tell him, but I should have said: Haven't you played against me a 100 times over the years? Did you not see that every shot I hit is with topspin?

why use yours where you just were calling for urgent help against a young jr?

[5263]

Originally Posted by JW10S

Pathetic.
And no, I don't teach to swing down the target line, nor do I teach to 'pull across'. In typical MTM fashion you seem to believe it can only be one or the other--but you're so wrong. As I've said many times there is more than one way to effectively hit a tennis ball, some of which you apparently know nothing about.

No, Pathetic is coming on a tips site and never sharing...especially from one who
claims to know so much. No much good to tell what is wrong if you can't say
what is right.
Of course if you actually share something, everyone can see that you likely have
nothing as special as you claim while slinging insults to others from the sidelines.

Again you give more mis-info that I "think it can be done only one way".
I just mentioned in another post how there are many ways to hit the ball.
I had you figured for someone who claimed to be a version of modern.

I'd love to see if you have anything of note as would others who come here to learn.
I share a lot here and learn much as well.

[5263]

Originally Posted by sureshs

No, not hacks who were actually taught, but hacks who either were not taught or took lessons with no result,

Really, so even though I coached my son to #3 in the state etc and played
well enough to trounce these jrs with my classic strokes, along my having lessons
from an Emory Hall of Fame player/instructor, along with my USPTA cert and training....
that is the lack of training and seriousness you are talking about?

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by 5263

Really, so even though I coached my son to #3 in the state etc and played
well enough to trounce these jrs with my classic strokes, along my having lessons
from an Emory Hall of Fame player/instructor, along with my USPTA cert and training....
that is the lack of training and seriousness you are talking about?

you believe the MTM got your son where he is in tennis which could be true but you can't say for sure some other more sophisticated method could not have gotten him much farther like world #3, can you?

[5263]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

you believe the MTM got your son where he is in tennis which could be true but you can't say for sure some other more sophisticated method could not have gotten him much farther like world #3, can you?

Read closer....I said we did all that before I learned of MTM and we were working
very traditional at those times.

Learning of MTM, both our games took a big leap from there.
What is your sophisticated method of choice?

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by 5263

Read closer....I said we did all that before I learned of MTM and we were working
very traditional at those times.

Learning of MTM, both our games took a big leap from there.
What is your sophisticated method of choice?

Sorry, as you say, didn't read too close. I don't know if there is a method that we can choose as in multiple choice question. And every student has different background and path to improvement so it's kinda silly to identify such a thing. I was thinking more like a method you develop or improve upon on top of something like MTM specifically tailored for your son.

[toly]

Originally Posted by sureshs

It is a bunch of imaginary things. If people over-analyze something to show that they have a new insight, they come up with these kind of things. They look for intent where there isn't any. They try to artificially separate intent from flow to show that there is some value-add to their method. Many of these claims are of the wishy-washy kind and what we end up doing is trying to treat them rationally and then arguing among ourselves. This prolongs the thread and provides publicity. We are the ones who are being fooled.

Originally Posted by bhupaes

Well, he's talking about Federer - and I would expect Federer to produce more sidespin.

I think this is natural for most people, and we have an extreme example in Nadal.

Here are pictures of Federer forehand with different camera speed.


Figure 1. Federer forehand - high speed camera

Like Nadal, Federer rotates relevant parts of his body very smoothly and without abrupt sideway acceleration.



Figure 2. Federer forehand - low speed camera

The last three frames of fig.2 demonstrate extreme wrist activity and arm pronation. It is absolutely clear that Federer and Nadal don’t follow Wegner instructions.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by toly

Here are pictures of Federer forehand with different camera speed.


Figure 1. Federer forehand - high speed camera

Like Nadal, Federer rotates relevant parts of his body very smoothly and without abrupt sideway acceleration.



Figure 2. Federer forehand - low speed camera

The last three frames of fig.2 demonstrate extreme wrist activity and arm pronation. It is absolutely clear that Federer and Nadal don’t follow Wegner instructions.

More photographic agitprops from Toly. Please specify what you think these photographs "clearly" show.

[arche3]

Originally Posted by toly

Here are pictures of Federer forehand with different camera speed.


Figure 1. Federer forehand - high speed camera

Like Nadal, Federer rotates relevant parts of his body very smoothly and without abrupt sideway acceleration.



Figure 2. Federer forehand - low speed camera

The last three frames of fig.2 demonstrate extreme wrist activity and arm pronation. It is absolutely clear that Federer and Nadal don’t follow Wegner instructions.

I think you need to show at contact to finish. Not drop to contact. Then you can really see the across and finish. The way you have it doesn't show anything remotely related to Oscars claims. It cannot because you omit the part of the video that Oscar instructions talks about. It only proves Oscar says to aim the butt cap at the ball. Not the finish.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by 5263

Really, so even though I coached my son to #3 in the state etc and played
well enough to trounce these jrs with my classic strokes, along my having lessons
from an Emory Hall of Fame player/instructor, along with my USPTA cert and training....
that is the lack of training and seriousness you are talking about?

Not sure what you are saying here. The hacks I was referring to where the club players I see (like the one who approached me for help with the forehand), not coaches. It had nothing to do with you, so what are you talking about?

[sureshs]

Also I have said many times that I think you are a good coach who studies all the modern developments. It has nothing to do with MTM. That is why I suggested you branch off and start MTM2 where you need not be defensive about the MIT video, count till 5 etc. but can just pursue your passion.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by tennis_balla

That's true but he didn't have to be. The people against MTM give it more publicity then MTM'ers themselves. That's what I was getting at. On the one hand you got all these folks foaming at the mouth when they see the term MTM and hate it with a passion yet on the other they discuss it to no end and are actually helping in spreading it around for more to see. So you should be thanking them lol.

It has become addictive. It is so much fun. The Fedal wars have almost ended, the big-small racket wars have almost ended, the legendary BP-NoBadMojo fights are no more - there is really nothing much to look forward to in life. This thing provides a small daily dose of entertainment, before it too ceases to amuse.

Such is life.

[tennis_balla]

Originally Posted by sureshs

It has become addictive. It is so much fun. The Fedal wars have almost ended, the big-small racket wars have almost ended, the legendary BP-NoBadMojo fights are no more - there is really nothing much to look forward to in life. This thing provides a small daily dose of entertainment, before it too ceases to amuse.

Such is life.

The most entertainment I had on this site was when a poster said Peter Polansky was at a 4.0 level. I avoid the General Player Talk Forum, I can't drop my IQ low enough to be able to read those threads in there.

[5263]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Not sure what you are saying here. The hacks I was referring to where the club players I see (like the one who approached me for help with the forehand), not coaches. It had nothing to do with you, so what are you talking about?

Originally Posted by sureshs

Also I have said many times that I think you are a good coach who studies all the modern developments. It has nothing to do with MTM. That is why I suggested you branch off and start MTM2 where you need not be defensive about the MIT video, count till 5 etc. but can just pursue your passion.

I'll just accept that as a nice compliment and say thanks, but I do relate strongly to
the hacks you mention before I got more into coaching and learning MTM, being
one of those who found it and appreciated it so.
But your point is well taken that my personal and early coaching result were too
solid to be of your example.
And also like you sometimes mention, those of us who were playing traditional for
years often to migrate over to many on these principles of modern strokes. I guess
I just have more appreciation for this system as being quite complete with regards
to stroke technique and filled in some holes what I had learned (even though I
had studied Nick, Vic, Jy, RL, Macci, Evert, USTPA, etc...).

[5263]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

Sorry, as you say, didn't read too close. I don't know if there is a method that we can choose as in multiple choice question. And every student has different background and path to improvement so it's kinda silly to identify such a thing. I was thinking more like a method you develop or improve upon on top of something like MTM specifically tailored for your son.

Well, I think MTM is a excellent foundation of the basics of the modern strokes,
and we have done what you mention. We use my "Smart Targets" combined
with a special focus on mid court attacks, interval training, and top notch serving mechanics.
Good suggestions, thanks

[Ash_Smith]

^^^5263 - do you deliberately mention "MTM excellent foundation strokes" and "top notch serve mechanics" as separate entities? I ask because my experience of MTM leaves me cold as to its teaching of the serve when compared to the forehand or single handed backhand (i'm not overly thrilled with its handling of the two hander either). Your referencing above leads me to think that you have similar reservations - or have I read too much into it?!?!?

Cheers

[bhupaes]

Originally Posted by toly

Here are pictures of Federer forehand with different camera speed.


Figure 1. Federer forehand - high speed camera

Like Nadal, Federer rotates relevant parts of his body very smoothly and without abrupt sideway acceleration.



Figure 2. Federer forehand - low speed camera

The last three frames of fig.2 demonstrate extreme wrist activity and arm pronation. It is absolutely clear that Federer and Nadal don’t follow Wegner instructions.

You and I are seeing things very differently! This is very similar to the Nadal sequence, and the principle of pulling the racquet across (inwards) is even more starkly visible in this sequence. Notice how the wrist is laid back at a constant angle most of the way as Federer pulls the racquet almost linearly towards the ball, and the ISR close to contact that pulls the hand in and whips the racquet head. At this point you can also see the wrist release. Thank you toly, it confirms everything I said - your pictures are the best!