practice match vids--are they 4.0?

[tonygao]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Tony, what's up with your serves?
Your groundies have improved.
Your balance has improved.
Your placements has improved.
But what's with your serve? Regressed back to your very first vid. Why the special lack of effort on your serves?

Hi LeeD,

yes, I served like that intentionally. that vid was the 3rd set we played, so I was quite tired already. moreover, I noticed that my opponent couldn't really do much about my weak serve. but if I served very hard, he can always get the ball back decently. so why wasting the energy and risk lots of double fault? that's why I decided to serve softly.

about I am rating myself 0.5 lower than the guys in the first vids. actually I never played either one of them, but I kinda know the difference based on his record against other people. also we shared a lot of each other's match vids among a group of people and the consensus is he is 0.5 higher than me. maybe not completely shown in these two particular vids though.

[LeeD]

Tony, you owe it to yourself and the other guy to serve as hard as you can for your second serves, and first serves.
First of all, you need the practice. Two sets cannot tire you out from serving. If it does, your motion is flawed.
You need to hit your best serves so you can improve. Hitting pattycake is not improving at all.
If your opponent is getting your hard serves back at your level, then your "hard": serve is a pattycake anyways, and you need to improve it.
You have a choice of flat serves to THREE spots, top/slice serves to THREE spots, kick serves to TWO spots, slice serves to TWO spots.
Can you hit them all? If you can, you can beat RogerFederer most times.

[martini1]

IMHO they serves from the first few mintues I watched are 3.5ish. No pace and very little spin. Kind of like the 3.5 serves I see from people I play. They are all sub 4.0.

I'm only talking about the serves. Their ball control are pretty good. Seems like they could direct the ball and think 1 or 2 strokes ahead.

[usta2050]

Originally Posted by tonygao

hi guys,

what do you think these two guys? are they 4.0 by NTRP ranking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trhfY3bAi6w

In Norcal - non-san francisco area, they can be a 4.0 on a weak team. San Francisco has a lot of players who don't have kids so they can play a lot of tennis and are very very good. So a 4.0 there can be pretty good.

you have good tennis skills. but you looked injured.

in my experience, 3.5 to 4.0 has a huge range of players. usta rating is not science. it's bad american maths.

[ShoeShiner]

NTRP confusion, AGAIN!!
. . .
As I remembered, may be a couple years ago, there were some threads that faked the videos of ATP professional players, and brought to ask opinion from this webboard, most of people said they were 5.0 to 5.5. Some said 6.0. That means most of them were missed.(very few people knew they are ATP players)
... After that, I never trust any NTRP evaluation from here. ...

[martini1]

^^ lol tells u the only true ntrp rating is but being able to play others in that rating group.

[0d1n]

Originally Posted by tonygao

hi guys,

what do you think these two guys? are they 4.0 by NTRP ranking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trhfY3bAi6w

The guy in black is most likely closer to 4.5 than 4.0. The guy in white would have a winning record at 4.0, simply due to his skill in match play and pretty good movement. Great choice of shots, plays percentages really well has good court positioning...etc. He doesn't look pretty but he sure is effective.

Effin' lol at a 60+ years old 3.0 thinking he hits harder than the guys in the OP. Yeh...maybe on the one shot in ten that actually makes it into court. These guys have solid pace (especially the one in black). The other guy is the "crafty/redirect pace" type of guy but he hits a pretty solid ball anyway.
People thinking these guys are 3.5's are smoking crack or try to feel better about themselves on the internet.

[0d1n]

Originally Posted by tonygao

while you are at it, below is my latest match play. I am the guy in black.

whatever level you rate the above two guys, I am 0.5 lower than them for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2NEVGX9orc

You are half a level below the guy in dark from your op. He has a better serve, a better forehand and maybe slightly more explosive movement.
The guy in white probably just has more match experience and better choice of shots/consistency.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that YOU are probably the 4.0, the guys in the OP are probably higher, with the guy in dark being clearly closer to 4.5 than 4.0.

[Sky_Boy]

I do agree ball control is pretty good HOWEVER u have to take into account the pace of ball that is coming to them.. as far as i can see, ball speed is slow-medium.. if pace of ball is fast it's going to be much more difficult to re-direct the ball..

1) Not enough explosive movement and hitting
2) Lack of Pace.. infact i m going to say lack of trying to hit balls with pace.. Obvious reason ,fear of hitting it out which to me means lack of confidence..

Guy in black run around 80% of his BH and doesn't hit a heavy forehand.. i do believe both has adopt such a play when playing matches instead of trying to hit it bigger with more pace.. if you dun try and practice to hit bigger shots in matches for fear of losing there's no way your going to improve.. if i have to put a number to them i would say black shirt low 4.0 and high 3.5 for the guy in white WITH NO-LITTLE chance to up their ratings based on the way they play

[0d1n]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boy

I do agree ball control is pretty good HOWEVER u have to take into account the pace of ball that is coming to them.. as far as i can see, ball speed is slow-medium.. if pace of ball is fast it's going to be much more difficult to re-direct the ball..

1) Not enough explosive movement and hitting
2) Lack of Pace.. infact i m going to say lack of trying to hit balls with pace.. Obvious reason ,fear of hitting it out which to me means lack of confidence..

Guy in black run around 80% of his BH and doesn't hit a heavy forehand.. i do believe both has adopt such a play when playing matches instead of trying to hit it bigger with more pace.. if you dun try and practice to hit bigger shots in matches for fear of losing there's no way your going to improve.. if i have to put a number to them i would say black shirt low 4.0 and high 3.5 for the guy in white WITH NO-LITTLE chance to up their ratings based on the way they play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqi-4B7E6xc

Guy in white beats both these BENCHMARK 4.0 PLAYERS any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Guy in dark destroys them any day of the week with no more than 2-3 games lost per set ... when he's playing badly.
Now go learn something about how people look on video except from watching Djokovic vs Federer on HDTV.

[goober]

Originally Posted by 0d1n

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqi-4B7E6xc

Guy in white beats both these BENCHMARK 4.0 PLAYERS any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Guy in dark destroys them any day of the week with no more than 2-3 games lost per set ... when he's playing badly.
Now go learn something about how people look on video except from watching Djokovic vs Federer on HDTV.

Not sure why you bolded and put in all caps "benchmark 4.0". All benchmark means is that he played in playoffs. You can have a losing record and be the weakest player on a 4.0 team that made playoffs and still be benchmark. It does not imply some kind of standard level of play. In fact the players in question played one match in playoffs and lost in straight sets. He mostly plays dubs with a .500 record.

[Torres]

Originally Posted by 0d1n

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqi-4B7E6xc

More worringly why have they used the soundtrack from a 1970s porn movie in that video....

[0d1n]

Originally Posted by goober

Not sure why you bolded and put in all caps "benchmark 4.0". All benchmark means is that he played in playoffs. You can have a losing record and be the weakest player on a 4.0 team that made playoffs and still be benchmark. It does not imply some kind of standard level of play. In fact the players in question played one match in playoffs and lost in straight sets. He mostly plays dubs with a .500 record.

Fine...
Let's see...these guys ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASRMi...eature=related ) are 4.5's in a so called "tennis hotbed" (at least I understand Texas is one of the better regions when it comes to tennis).
They are young, and athletic. Yes...they move well...and play pretty well.
Would you say they play better than the guy in dark blue/black we are all talking about from the OP??
They are both arming the ball, especially the right hander. The leftie is slightly cleaner, but our dark clothing guy in the op has clearly better, more repeatable technique on groundstrokes, especially the forehand side. He's using quick unit turns, racquet head up, hits the ball cleanly, has good margin over the net, is precise and close to the lines, and generally hits his forehand with more purpose than BOTH guys in the 4.5 video. Their serves are similar. They make a few winners, but also make more wild errors than the guy I'm talking about. Pace is similar, but consistency would go to the guy in the OP.
Let me just get this right...are you DEBATING the fact that the guy I'm talking about is clearly better than 4.0 ???
I've made clear where I stand...and given the choice to place a bet on who would win 3 out of 5 matches between the guy in the OP and any of the two 4.5's in the video I posted, I would put my money on the guy in the OP. He's just cleaner...and his technique is more correct and more repeatable.
In my view, there is no way in h3ll he is a 4.0, and the guys who are even stating 3.5 ratings are talking out of their arses.
I understand your problem with my "benchmark 4.0's", how do you comment my general opinion with regards to the ratings though ?? I'm pretty sure you have a better clue about these things than most of the people who were declaring their ratings loud and clear in this thread...so lets hear it.

P.S. I'm fairly sure that most of the guys commenting on the so called lack of pace are fooled by the lack of sound in the video. Yes...sound matters when it comes to perception of pace...

[bhallic24]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boy

I do agree ball control is pretty good HOWEVER u have to take into account the pace of ball that is coming to them.. as far as i can see, ball speed is slow-medium.. if pace of ball is fast it's going to be much more difficult to re-direct the ball..

1) Not enough explosive movement and hitting
2) Lack of Pace.. infact i m going to say lack of trying to hit balls with pace.. Obvious reason ,fear of hitting it out which to me means lack of confidence..

Guy in black run around 80% of his BH and doesn't hit a heavy forehand.. i do believe both has adopt such a play when playing matches instead of trying to hit it bigger with more pace.. if you dun try and practice to hit bigger shots in matches for fear of losing there's no way your going to improve.. if i have to put a number to them i would say black shirt low 4.0 and high 3.5 for the guy in white WITH NO-LITTLE chance to up their ratings based on the way they play

bEST post on this thread. Absolutely agree with every word. I mean, imho, OP, sorry but I do not think you guys are a 4.0. More like a strong 3.5 if not just a regular 3.5.

Unless theres an Asian NTRP, then I'd said Asian NTRP your a solid 4.0. Hey, what the heck right? they have asian rackets why not asian NTRP. Not trying to be racist here.

Anyway, the biggest problem you guys have is NO PACE! The serve (even the first serve) is a lollipop. A high end 4.0 player would smack that **** back right in yo face!

Sure your placing the ball well and running around and getting to this ball and that ball, but its not really hard to do when the ball is traveling 35 mph. I'd like to see what happens when you're forced to play someone that can just hit flat and hard. Trust me, you would be placing it anywhere near the lines.

And again, I see this alot amongst ASian players (again not trying to be racist) but they tend to jump before serving A LOT. I mean I don't know if that's how they teach tennis overseas but you gotta watch some PEte sampras or some Roger FEderer buddy. One suggestion I'd have is to work on the serve. Resist the urge to Jump.... and then just tap the ball.

Then work on placement, down the T, out wide. because you have the savvy and know how it seems to construct points. How much easier would it be if you could hit a hard serve and draw your opponent out wide? Then you'd have the whole court to hit your 35 mph winning forehand!

[LeeD]

I'd put my money on the Dallas boys with no serve.
Both seem to place the ball where they want (not up the middle), and are playing against another player who can move and hit near the sidelines.
Weak butt serves, but good placement on groundies.

[goober]

Originally Posted by 0d1n

Fine...
Let's see...these guys ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASRMi...eature=related ) are 4.5's in a so called "tennis hotbed" (at least I understand Texas is one of the better regions when it comes to tennis).
They are young, and athletic. Yes...they move well...and play pretty well.
Would you say they play better than the guy in dark blue/black we are all talking about from the OP??
They are both arming the ball, especially the right hander. The leftie is slightly cleaner, but our dark clothing guy in the op has clearly better, more repeatable technique on groundstrokes, especially the forehand side. He's using quick unit turns, racquet head up, hits the ball cleanly, has good margin over the net, is precise and close to the lines, and generally hits his forehand with more purpose than BOTH guys in the 4.5 video. Their serves are similar. They make a few winners, but also make more wild errors than the guy I'm talking about. Pace is similar, but consistency would go to the guy in the OP.
Let me just get this right...are you DEBATING the fact that the guy I'm talking about is clearly better than 4.0 ???
I've made clear where I stand...and given the choice to place a bet on who would win 3 out of 5 matches between the guy in the OP and any of the two 4.5's in the video I posted, I would put my money on the guy in the OP. He's just cleaner...and his technique is more correct and more repeatable.
In my view, there is no way in h3ll he is a 4.0, and the guys who are even stating 3.5 ratings are talking out of their arses.
I understand your problem with my "benchmark 4.0's", how do you comment my general opinion with regards to the ratings though ?? I'm pretty sure you have a better clue about these things than most of the people who were declaring their ratings loud and clear in this thread...so lets hear it.

Having seen people play on video and then having played them IRL, my take is you can't be as certain as you seem to imply you can be with video especially at the 3.5-4.5 level. I would almost always take some one with a proven high winning percentage record over someone that doesn't play competitively regardless how they look on video ate the rec/club level. I have seen tons of people who look not that great on video, but are match tough, mentally strong and know how to win. I have also seen people who technically look good, but when it comes to a real match they lose to 3.5 players.

May be they are as you say and maybe they aren't. Too me the players in the OP are not obviously superior to 4.5 players. But I wouldn't bet on either one of them without seeing them play IRL and having match records of the players. If someone asked me to rate them on video alone. I would say their actual ratings could be anywhere from 3.5-4.5 but from what I am seeing the guy in black looks like a decent to strong 4.0 and the other guy looks like a 3.5.

[anubis]

IMO the ppl in post #1 would get eaten alive by the 4.0's in my area. They are solid 3.5's.

[droliver]

These guy's are 3.5's to my eyes, which is the level I play at. They do not have the weapons to play 4.0 league tennis.

[jmnk]

Originally Posted by bhallic24

[...]
Anyway, the biggest problem you guys have is NO PACE! The serve (even the first serve) is a lollipop. A high end 4.0 player would smack that **** back right in yo face![...]

Could you kindly post a video of any 4.0 player that smacks any serve return on a consistent basis? (while is playing for points).... I would prefer videos showing returns going back into the court if you don't mind...

[jmnk]

Originally Posted by anubis

IMO the ppl in post #1 would get eaten alive by the 4.0's in my area. They are solid 3.5's.

Now - that is the video I really want to see.

Originally Posted by droliver

These guy's are 3.5's to my eyes, which is the level I play at. They do not have the weapons to play 4.0 league tennis.

And if you don't mind me asking - what other weapons beside those shown by player's in OP's video does one need to play at 4.0 level?