Clay Court GOAT - Page 55

kiki · 10-08-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMF

I've Fed at #7 and some people have him higher or lower. You always get ticked off when someone is put a player ahead of Laver and Rosewall. They are good players too but that doesn't mean they have to be at the top in every categories. Now try to be open minded.

C mon how many one timers can claim top ten status, Nasty has far superior record on clay fi
Be serious and mature and fair to others not called Fed
While Federer can claim be a second tier grass and hard and cannot be judged on fast indoors not by his fault, he certainly can be honoured with 4 tier on clay

pc1 · 10-08-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMF

1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Lendl
4. Wilander
5. Guga
6. Vilas
7. Federer
8. Laver
9. Muster
10. Rosewall/Burguera

Obviously this isn't by record but by opinion. You probably could have put Lacoste, Tilden, Nastase, Orantes, Wilding, Cochet somewhere. That's okay since you have guys like Lendl, Wilander and Guga up there. Honestly Laver probably belongs ahead of a few of them and Rosewall should be higher. But considering your feeling about the past, it's remarkably objective of you.

TMF · 10-08-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

C mon how many one timers can claim top ten status, Nasty has far superior record on clay fi
Be serious and mature and fair to others not called Fed
While Federer can claim be a second tier grass and hard and cannot be judged on fast indoors not by his fault, he certainly can be honoured with 4 tier on clay

So you decided not to be open minded. Okay, fine. But if you want people to take you seriously, you need to change.

TMF · 10-08-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc1

Obviously this isn't by record but by opinion. You probably could have put Lacoste, Tilden, Nastase, Orantes, Wilding, Cochet somewhere. That's okay since you have guys like Lendl, Wilander and Guga up there. Honestly Laver probably belongs ahead of a few of them and Rosewall should be higher. But considering your feeling about the past, it's remarkably objective of you.

It's only a top 10 and you can throw in many of them on the list. There's no such thing as rigght or wrong list. However, I don't think we should include players way back in the 20s or 100 years ago. None of us are old enough to know them plus there isn't much(if any) information about them.

pc1 · 10-08-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMF

It's only a top 10 and you can throw in many of them on the list. There's no such thing as rigght or wrong list. However, I don't think we should include players way back in the 20s or 100 years ago. None of us are old enough to know them plus there isn't much(if any) information about them.

You can check out the records. Babe Ruth played in the 1910's and he's recognized as perhaps the greatest ever.

Tilden's records are easily available for example. By record for clay I do think he's top ten. He won a ton of clay events and the World Hardcourt which was the equivalent of the French Open today.

10-08-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMF

1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Lendl
4. Wilander
5. Guga
6. Vilas
7. Federer
8. Laver
9. Muster
10. Rosewall/Burguera

Vilas above Laver (and even more ridiculously Rosewall) on clay, ROTFL!!! Laver was typically winning more games vs Borg at nearly 40 as peak Vilas was winning agaisnt Borg on clay. Ranking Vilas above Federer on clay is also the closest thing you will probably ever do to Federer bashing as well.

Rosewall = Bruguera on clay too, that is some joke as well. How on earth can Rosewall be below Laver on clay also. There is no question Rosewall owned clay for many years, even in Laver's prime.

10-08-2012, 11:08 AM

My top 20 would be:

1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Rosewall
4. Cochet
5. Lendl
6. Wilding
7. Kuerten
8. Lacoste
9. Wilander
10. Laver
11. Federer
12. Muster
13. Courier
14. Santana
15. Bruguera
16. Vilas
17. Pietrangeli
18. Borotra
19. Kodes
20. Djokovic

Mustard · 10-08-2012, 11:53 AM

It looks like Tony Wilding won more clay-court titles than anybody else in history, and he didn't lose a match on clay for 4 years up to being drafted into the First World War, which would tragically end his life. Taking a closer look at Wilding's record, it looks like Nadal has a very serious challenger for clay GOAT.

BobbyOne · 10-08-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMF

I've Fed at #7 and some people have him higher or lower. You always get ticked off when someone is put a player ahead of Laver and Rosewall. They are good players too but that doesn't mean they have to be at the top in every categories. Now try to be open minded.

TMF,

Thanks that you call Laver and Rosewall "good players".......

SoBad · 10-08-2012, 12:05 PM

1. Nadal
2. Kafelnikov
3. Borg

pc1 · 10-08-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

TMF,

Thanks that you call Laver and Rosewall "good players".......

I'm just stunned that he put them the top ten. Shocked!!

BobbyOne · 10-08-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

My top 20 would be:

1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Rosewall
4. Cochet
5. Lendl
6. Wilding
7. Kuerten
8. Lacoste
9. Wilander
10. Laver
11. Federer
12. Muster
13. Courier
14. Santana
15. Bruguera
16. Vilas
17. Pietrangeli
18. Borotra
19. Kodes
20. Djokovic

Good list. I only miss Segura and Gimeno. I would rank Laver higher. He was almost as strong as Rosewall...

BobbyOne · 10-08-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

It looks like Tony Wilding won more clay-court titles than anybody else in history, and he didn't lose a match on clay for 4 years up to being drafted into the First World War, which would tragically end his life. Taking a closer look at Wilding's record, it looks like Nadal has a very serious challenger for clay GOAT.

Going through Wilding's claycourt matches I realized that he had rather weak opponents.

kiki · 10-08-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMF

Never in the history of tennis where you have a pair of most dominant players(Federer/Nadal) ever to play the game. Borg/Connors, Pete/Andre or Laver/Rosewall were good too but they fall short.

You know why? You should now by now...

kiki · 10-08-2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc1

Obviously this isn't by record but by opinion. You probably could have put Lacoste, Tilden, Nastase, Orantes, Wilding, Cochet somewhere. That's okay since you have guys like Lendl, Wilander and Guga up there. Honestly Laver probably belongs ahead of a few of them and Rosewall should be higher. But considering your feeling about the past, it's remarkably objective of you.

Very smart from you.Unfortunately, the irony won´t be appreciated nor used for self improvement

kiki · 10-08-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMF

So you decided not to be open minded. Okay, fine. But if you want people to take you seriously, you need to change.

To be open minded, first, you´ll need some experience, some criteria and some knowledge learnt by yourself, in which visual experience is basic.Then, you can choose from the options you created to yourself.Otherwise, you become a parrot or a repeating machine subject to the opinion of other high schoolers, Tennischannelist or even worse specimens

kiki · 10-08-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc1

Obviously this isn't by record but by opinion. You probably could have put Lacoste, Tilden, Nastase, Orantes, Wilding, Cochet somewhere. That's okay since you have guys like Lendl, Wilander and Guga up there. Honestly Laver probably belongs ahead of a few of them and Rosewall should be higher. But considering your feeling about the past, it's remarkably objective of you.

BTW, you forgot somebody else in your otherwiae very accurate list...yeah¡¡ you know who¡¡¡ ( if, as you said, you are based on records)

kiki · 10-08-2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

My top 20 would be:

1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Rosewall
4. Cochet
5. Lendl
6. Wilding
7. Kuerten
8. Lacoste
9. Wilander
10. Laver
11. Federer
12. Muster
13. Courier
14. Santana
15. Bruguera
16. Vilas
17. Pietrangeli
18. Borotra
19. Kodes
20. Djokovic

I like a lot of names here but...Djokovic? never won anything worthy or even being close to on clay.Federer and Muster would be 19 and 20 IMO.I have doubts Muster is even a top 30 cc player, but,as I said, I like the whole rest of names.

kiki · 10-08-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

TMF,

Thanks that you call Laver and Rosewall "good players".......

If they were taller, maybe TMF would consider using the word " very good"

kiki · 10-08-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoBad

1. Nadal
2. Kafelnikov
3. Borg

So bad,

as I said in another thread, you still gotta come down from Evonne´s tobacco.

10-08-2012, 12:05 PM	#1090
SoBad Legend Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 5,870	1. Nadal 2. Kafelnikov 3. Borg __________________ 皆けちやんか…

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