How can Nadal be a GOAT candidate if...

[The Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Cup8489

If tennis was about only two men, obviously that would be true.

Fortunately, tennis encompasses many thousands of players.. of whom Federer has proven the most successful at the largest events in the world.

Well Nadal did miss 6 slams , an Olympics and still managed to win 11 slams an an Olympics by age 26. Pretty amazing.

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by Cup8489

Fed's more qualified than Nadal.

More majors, more YE#1, more weeks at number 1, same number of medals, career slam, more wtf's.

In fact.. what does Nadal have on Federer that ISN'T H2H and/or clay GOAT?

Not too much.. in fact.

There's also him having won his slams against tougher opposition.

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

There's also him having won his slams against tougher opposition.

By tougher opposition you mean Fed himself, of course. Other than that, they have generally played and lost to the same players. I see what you mean though, how can you have tougher opposition than the GOAT?

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by NadalDramaQueen

By tougher opposition you mean Fed himself, of course. Other than that, they have generally played and lost to the same players. I see what you mean though, how can you have tougher opposition than the GOAT?

Fed himself, and Novak.

I mean, really, lots of people have no problem pointing out the players Rafa beat in RG and Wimbledon in 2010.

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

Fed himself, and Novak.

Fed was the one who had to face Novak in an unbelievable amount of semifinals (defying the odds). Don't blame Fed for the fact that you don't consider Nadal tough competition, or that you lack faith in his ability to make it past the second round.

I can't dispute your overall point though, of course Fed is the toughest competition of them all.

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by NadalDramaQueen

Fed was the one who had to face Novak in an unbelievable amount of semifinals (defying the odds). Don't blame Fed for the fact that you don't consider Nadal tough competition, or that you lack faith in his ability to make it past the second round.

I can't dispute your overall point though, of course Fed is the toughest competition of them all.

Fed didn't have to face Novak (nor Rafa) much when he won most of his slams. Not at all the case with Nadal.

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

Fed didn't have to face Novak (nor Rafa) much when he won most of his slams. Not at all the case with Nadal.

Right, he only had to beat the players who pummeled poor clay court specialist Rafito . Poor Nadal, he has been robbed his whole career. If only he was a better player.

Apparently, you don't grasp the concept of a tournament. Perhaps, in time, you will realize how tennis is played and how champions are crowned.

[Cup8489]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

Fed didn't have to face Novak (nor Rafa) much when he won most of his slams. Not at all the case with Nadal.

Pretty sure Federer beat the guy who beat rafa multiple times. Soderling, Murray, Gonzalez, etc.

It's not his fault Rafa didn't make it to him, but instead got beat by these 'lesser' players.

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by Cup8489

Pretty sure Federer beat the guy who beat rafa multiple times. Soderling, Murray, Gonzalez, etc.

It's not his fault Rafa didn't make it to him, but instead got beat by these 'lesser' players.

... When he hadn't quite yet the level on hard courts.

Lesser players indeed, no doubt (good as they are).

[Cup8489]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

... When he hadn't quite yet the level on hard courts.

Lesser players indeed, no doubt (good as they are).

Why is there always an excuse?

[JustBob]

19 pages, considering Nadal is not even a GOAT candidate? This forum never ceases to amaze me...

[RF20Lennon]

Originally Posted by JustBob

19 pages, considering Nadal is not even a GOAT candidate? This forum never ceases to amaze me...

TRUE THAT!!!

[Prisoner of Birth]

Originally Posted by The Dark Knight

not a matchup issue per se....because a matchup issue is when you get a guy like rosol who can't beat anyone else but beats Nadal. In the case of Nadal he beat everyone and has 11 slams to prove it. That's not a matchup issue....he is just that good.

Panetta is not a matchup issue.....he was an incredible player and won the FO.....rosol never really did anything. Big difference

But I do see somewhat of an analogy.

When Borg came on the scene baseline play was all the rage. Borg didn't face that many serve and volleyers and when he did he lost many times.

Mcenroe brought the serve and volley back and that was a huge problem for Borg,

Same with Nadal....he brought clay court tennis back....a style that has basically died......today's players are not used to it. And it presents a big problem for them .

Baseline play was all the rage when Borg came? You know NOTHING. NOTHING. That's the most ignorant thing I've heard on here, and that's saying something. Borg was the one who made it popular.

[merlinpinpin]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

Fed didn't have to face Novak (nor Rafa) much when he won most of his slams. Not at all the case with Nadal.

That's the thing, Crisstti--why does the Nadal fanbase insist on spouting absolute nonsense like, all the time?

Let's not talk about the guys Nadal didn't have to face (and Federer did) as he was too young, as this would disprove your point too fast, obviously. And we wouldn't want that, would we? Nadal faced Federer in five slams off clay and Federer faced Nadal in five slams on clay, so I would say this kind of evens things out (I won't go into the age issue, but if we went there, we would see that things aren't even--still, let's forget about that, too).

Now, Djokovic. You're right, Nadal has been awfully unlucky, he's had to face Djokovic 9 times in slams. Fed, the lucky guy who had no competition at all, had to face him... 11 times.

So I guess you learned maths in the same school Trolling Day & Knight did, ie 9 > 11 as far as you're concerned, but still...

So, even forgetting the players from the past that Federer had to face and Nadal didn't (Agassi, strong Hewitt and Nalbandian, Safin, Roddick when he was #1), even forgetting the fact that, when they started playing on surfaces that favour Federer, he was already past his prime, just using your own parameters and allowing for your usual contingent of excuses, it turns out that Federer faced stiffer competition than Nadal did at the slams (which I guess everyone knew anyway).

Nice way of owning yourself. Way to go, Crisstti!

[PSNELKE]

Originally Posted by kiki

Oh, I would love to know the results of the main events held during the Jeu de Pomme years.A Davis Cup jeu de Pomme contest must have been the most exciting and probably bleeding event ever held...thanks for bringing it up.

Same here I wonder how many CGS Laver would have won.
Roswell's BH slice would probably be at 1million mph.

btw it's Jeu de Paume dawg. Pomme is an apple.

[The Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Prisoner of Birth

Baseline play was all the rage when Borg came? You know NOTHING. NOTHING. That's the most ignorant thing I've heard on here, and that's saying something. Borg was the one who made it popular.

Borg 11 slams
_____________
1) 1 GS, Manuel Orantes, 1974 French Open.....baseliner
2) 4 GS, Guillermo Vilas, 1975 French Open.......baseliner
3) 2 GS, Ilie Nastase, 1976 Wimbledon..............all courter
4) 8 GS, Jimmy Connors, 1977 Wimbledon..........baseliner
5) 4 GS, Guillermo Vilas, 1978 French Open..........baseliner
6) 8 GS, Jimmy Connors, 1978 Wimbledon.............baseliner
7) 0 GS, Victor Pecci, 1979 French Open................baseliner
8] 1 GS, Roscoe Tanner, 1979 Wimbledon................serve and volley
9) 1 GS, Vitas Gerulaitis, 1980 French Open..............serve and volley
10) 7 GS, John McEnroe, 1980 Wimbledon..................serve and volley
11) 8 GS, Ivan Lendl, 1981 French Open.....................baseliner

As you will see only at the end of his career did he face Mcenroe and gerulatis , serve and volleyers. He did fave tanner....who was more of just a serve similar to Roddick....but ok .

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by Cup8489

Why is there always an excuse?

You mean, an explanation you don't like?.

Originally Posted by merlinpinpin

That's the thing, Crisstti--why does the Nadal fanbase insist on spouting absolute nonsense like, all the time?

Let's not talk about the guys Nadal didn't have to face (and Federer did) as he was too young, as this would disprove your point too fast, obviously. And we wouldn't want that, would we? Nadal faced Federer in five slams off clay and Federer faced Nadal in five slams on clay, so I would say this kind of evens things out (I won't go into the age issue, but if we went there, we would see that things aren't even--still, let's forget about that, too).

Now, Djokovic. You're right, Nadal has been awfully unlucky, he's had to face Djokovic 9 times in slams. Fed, the lucky guy who had no competition at all, had to face him... 11 times.

So I guess you learned maths in the same school Trolling Day & Knight did, ie 9 > 11 as far as you're concerned, but still...

So, even forgetting the players from the past that Federer had to face and Nadal didn't (Agassi, strong Hewitt and Nalbandian, Safin, Roddick when he was #1), even forgetting the fact that, when they started playing on surfaces that favour Federer, he was already past his prime, just using your own parameters and allowing for your usual contingent of excuses, it turns out that Federer faced stiffer competition than Nadal did at the slams (which I guess everyone knew anyway).

Nice way of owning yourself. Way to go, Crisstti!

No, it wouldn't...

Yeah, right.

[Netspirit]

How can Donald Young be a GOAT candidate if...?

[Prisoner of Birth]

Originally Posted by The Dark Knight

Borg 11 slams
_____________
1) 1 GS, Manuel Orantes, 1974 French Open.....baseliner
2) 4 GS, Guillermo Vilas, 1975 French Open.......baseliner
3) 2 GS, Ilie Nastase, 1976 Wimbledon..............all courter
4) 8 GS, Jimmy Connors, 1977 Wimbledon..........baseliner
5) 4 GS, Guillermo Vilas, 1978 French Open..........baseliner
6) 8 GS, Jimmy Connors, 1978 Wimbledon.............baseliner
7) 0 GS, Victor Pecci, 1979 French Open................baseliner
8] 1 GS, Roscoe Tanner, 1979 Wimbledon................serve and volley
9) 1 GS, Vitas Gerulaitis, 1980 French Open..............serve and volley
10) 7 GS, John McEnroe, 1980 Wimbledon..................serve and volley
11) 8 GS, Ivan Lendl, 1981 French Open.....................baseliner

As you will see only at the end of his career did he face Mcenroe and gerulatis , serve and volleyers. He did fave tanner....who was more of just a serve similar to Roddick....but ok .

Basliners would be the ones he faced in French Open finals, it's clay. You except people to S/V there? Jimmy Connors is the one exception. Lendl came after so you can't use him to argue, "Baseline-play was all the rage when Borg came into the scene". Like I said, you're ignorant.

[hoodjem]

According to some, all it takes is a career slam.

And Nadal has one of those.








(But I disagree. A career slam is pretty much a Carilloism.)