Dealing with a foot faulter in your league

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

You would think so but over the last three years in districts, and sectionals there has only been 1 ref that called foot faults. I find it disgraceful when a referee watches a dude foot fault by 6 to 8 inches, give the guy a warning and allow him to do that same thing for the rest of the day without a single penalty. It was almost like they were afraid of confrontation.

I was at a WTT tournament recently playing a guy when the official called a foot fault on his 2nd serve. The official intended it as a warning thinking it was a 1st serve, but it cost the guy a point instead. Later in the match he called a couple more on the guy too.

Another time at USTA states, a couple of us asked a nearby official to monitor a player who was obviously footfaulting. The official went on to call a couple of foot faults on the adjacent court but never on the court we asked him to monitor.

[spot]

I'll also say that if I had someone on our team who habitually called footfaults they would not be invited back to the team.

[Mongolmike]

Originally Posted by jk175d

I've only called a foot fault in a leauge match once. It was a doubles match, we were down but I felt like we should have be able to handle these guys so I was irritated. One of the opponants was a pretty flagarant foot faulter (as are nearly 50% of players you see in usta leagues it seems). So during a changeover after one of his service games I said something like "by the way you may not know but you pretty much foot fault on every serve". He seemed in disbelief and looked at his partner who said "yeah actually you do". His next service game he of course foot faulted so I called it. After that I guess it got in his head, we broke him and it turned the match around and we won.

So there you go. positve impact from calling a foot faulter.

I think what was really positive is that his partner agreed! Gave the foot faulter little to argue about.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by jk175d

I've only called a foot fault in a leauge match once. It was a doubles match, we were down but I felt like we should have be able to handle these guys so I was irritated. One of the opponants was a pretty flagarant foot faulter (as are nearly 50% of players you see in usta leagues it seems). So during a changeover after one of his service games I said something like "by the way you may not know but you pretty much foot fault on every serve". He seemed in disbelief and looked at his partner who said "yeah actually you do". His next service game he of course foot faulted so I called it. After that I guess it got in his head, we broke him and it turned the match around and we won.

So there you go. positve impact from calling a foot faulter.

I'd be willing to entertain the idea that "50% of USTA league players foot fault" but probably less than 5% of the people ive seen actually step over the line. If you're not stepping over the line and into the court by at least a foot you're not getting any real advantage. It's not the same thing as reaching over the net by a foot, calling balls that are a foot in as out, or even playing a double bounce that has taken a foot off its second bounce.

Sounds to me like you gained a bigger advantage by gamesmanship than he gained by foot faulting. That's just lame to me.

You are totally in your right to call those foot faults. That just seems like a lame tactic, especially if the person isnt serving huge. To me, its like calling a times keeper over just because someone is taking longer than 15 seconds to begin their service motion. Sure, its a rule and you're within your rights. It just seems "desperate".

[Mike Y]

I've never called a foot fault before, but it annoys me that seemingly 60-70% of recreational players do it. It may not seem like an advantage to have your toes on the line, but it's a skill thing. Do your serve from behind the line! It's like having your foot on the free throw line when you are shooting a free throw. You are still a bit closer, you are bending the rules if you serve that way. See if you can still hit your serve from behind the line. I make a point of making sure I don't foot fault, I wish others would do the same.

[r2473]

I used to footfault on literally every serve, but I'm pretty good now at starting a few inches behind the line so I don't foot fault anymore.

I used to toe the line and footfault anywhere from an inch to the full width of the line (I'm told).

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

I'd be willing to entertain the idea that "50% of USTA league players foot fault" but probably less than 5% of the people ive seen actually step over the line. If you're not stepping over the line and into the court by at least a foot you're not getting any real advantage. It's not the same thing as reaching over the net by a foot, calling balls that are a foot in as out, or even playing a double bounce that has taken a foot off its second bounce.

Sounds to me like you gained a bigger advantage by gamesmanship than he gained by foot faulting. That's just lame to me.

so I assume you only call net serves where the path of the ball is dramatically effected and not those where it just grazes the top of the tape? When you play tennis you decide for yourself which established rules are important enough to be enforced and which aren't? That's just lame to me.

I've played hundreds of league matches and only ever called one foot fault on a guy AFTER alerting him to it harmlessly in a changeover. The effect may have been the same as gamesmanship in that it went to his head and. But that's his own fault not anyone else's for not learning how to serve the right way.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by jk175d

so I assume you only call net serves where the path of the ball is dramatically effected and not those where it just grazes the top of the tape? When you play tennis you decide for yourself which established rules are important enough to be enforced and which aren't? That's just lame to me.

I've played hundreds of league matches and only ever called one foot fault on a guy AFTER alerting him to it harmlessly in a changeover. The effect may have been the same as gamesmanship in that it went to his head and. But that's his own fault not anyone else's for not learning how to serve the right way.

Yes, in the grand scheme of things.

Remember, this is rec tennis. Unless that person is intentionally foot faulting and/or gaining a huge advantage by being 1 ft. in or more inside the baseline and serving 100 mph there is no reason why you should play lawyer.

Unless this is a playoff or an officiated match there is no reason to be a hardass over the rules, especially one that doesnt offer any significant advantage in the bigger picture of things.

I mean, if im playing a really old lady and she takes 20 seconds between points to begin her serve motion, should I file a grievance? Of course not. I am within my right to, but I wouldnt.



Look, it comes down to this:

If you wouldnt call it when you're winning, you shouldnt call it when you're losing. I have never seen someone call foot faults on their opponents unless they were losing. You even admit that it must have gotten into his head and you turned the game around from that point on.

If this guy is foot faulting and opening angles for his 100 mph serve, fine.
If this guy is blatantly disregarding the rules, which shows in other areas of his game, fine.

Chances are this guy was probably serving 50 mph with no spin and not being more than a foot into the court while being completely oblivious to what he was doing.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by jk175d

When you play tennis you decide for yourself which established rules are important enough to be enforced and which aren't? That's just lame to me.

EVERYONE does this.

Do you enforce EVERY rule to the letter of the law ALL the time? I sincerely doubt it. You'd never get around to playing tennis if you did.

[Larrysümmers]

if you cant follow the laws of the game, then you shouldnt be playing. if you go the whole match foot-faulting and the other guy doesnt call it, it is his problem; but no one should be throwing a hissy-fit for being called out on it, (granted it is a legit call).

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by Larrysümmers

if you cant follow the laws of the game, then you shouldnt be playing. if you go the whole match foot-faulting and the other guy doesnt call it, it is his problem; but no one should be throwing a hissy-fit for being called out on it, (granted it is a legit call).

There are 3 points im trying to make:

1) When a cop pulls you over and gives you a ticket, how often does that cop give you a ticket for every single thing they can? If a cop gives you 5 or more tickets you must have done something really wrong. Trust me, if they want to come up with things they can cite you for, they can.

2) Police and lines judges are "neutral parties" enforcing the rules equally across all people. How often does a player call a foot fault themselves? How often does a player call foot faults on their opponents when they themselves are winning?

3) Yes, he is entitled to call foot faults no one disputes that. It's lame given the circumstances, especially since how his opponent broke down, was totally unaware, and then ended up losing. It would be just as lame of me to call a clock on an old lady because she's taking too much time between serves and rushing her along and causing her to overly exert herself into double faulting 4 times in a row. Would you tell that old lady to "quit playing" and give me an award for being rule enforcer of the year? Of course not.

[JW10S]

I was playing in a college doubles tournament and since it was an early round there no umpires on court. We were on the farthest court from the tournament desk and one of our opponents was a foot faulter. My partner said to him 'you foot fault everytime, I don't want to walk all the way to the TD to get an umpire so stop.' The guy continued to foot fault so the next time it was my partner's turn to serve he took the ball and walked all the way up the net and slammed the ball into the service box and said '15-love'. Our opponents asked 'what was that?' My partner said 'well if you're going to foot fault so am I'. On the next point my partner got the balls and started walking toward the net--our opponents said 'OK, OK, we get it, we'll stop'. The next time the foot faulter served he stood well off the baseline and foot faults were no longer an issue--worked like a charm. Foot faulting is cheating no matter how slight--just like calling a ball that barely catches the line out.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by JW10S

I was playing in a college doubles tournament and since it was an early round there no umpires on court. We were on the farthest court from the tournament desk and one of our opponents was a foot faulter. My partner said to him 'you foot fault everytime, I don't want to walk all the way to the TD to get an umpire so stop.' The guy continued to foot fault so (1)the next time it was my partner's turn to serve he took the ball and walked all the way up the net and slammed the ball into the service box and said '15-love'. Our opponents asked 'what was that?' My partner said 'well if you're going to foot fault so am I'. On the next point my partner got the balls and started walking toward the net--our opponents said 'OK, OK, we get it, we'll stop'. The next time the foot faulter served he stood well off the baseline and foot faults were no longer an issue--worked like a charm. (2)Foot faulting is cheating no matter how slight--just like calling a ball that barely catches the line out.

(1)I dont see that happening in a "college doubles tournament" or in any tournament for that matter. If its college level tennis there should be chair umps... if not, at least some roaming officials.

(2)So is walking up to the net and slamming the ball into the service box and calling out "15-love". You are totally in your right to "get a ref", but doing what you did is not only a... foot fault... but also unsportsmanlike conduct and would result in suspension in most cases.

The response to cheating is not to cheat back harder. It never is.

Great story, but not very believable, and if it did happen, that was a really stupid thing to do. You not only risk defaulting the entire match but also risk being sanctioned. If this was just a "college aged people playing tennis" then whatever, but to do that in a "college doubles tournament" is just beyond stupid.

If someone is "that bad" then just call a ref. Imagine if they called a ref on you for doing that? Or if a ref just happened to look over and see those antics?

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Originally Posted by Swissv2

You could tell him he is foot faulting, and you may call him out on it if he does it all the time, but in the beginning just as a warning. Just gently mention that tougher players will definately call him out every single time - so he has to become more aware.

you see, I have only got 1 post into the thread and here is the answer.

How has this reached 100+ posts???

*edit. LOL, how quickly we forget, I have posted in this thread 3 times myself!

Just learn to serve, people. You will probably find your service improves with a more stable base, anyway...

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by JW10S

...We were on the farthest court from the tournament desk and one of our opponents was a foot faulter. My partner said to him 'you foot fault everytime, I don't want to walk all the way to the TD to get an umpire so stop.'

...Foot faulting is cheating no matter how slight--just like calling a ball that barely catches the line out.

I find the scenario as described believable and have heard it done by others--I can hardly wait to utilize it myself someday--IT WORKED! It was more expedient then walking to the far end of the tournament site dragging an official over. I've seen much worse behavior at tournaments with the officials standing around doing nothing, just yesterday in fact.

You don't get suspended for a foot fault, granted it was a rather gargantuan foot fault. If it were deemed bad sportsmanship then there would be a warning, then a point violation, a game, and then match. Given the situation, that the perp was warned and continued foot faulting, I think it was a cool way of making the point.

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

Chances are this guy was probably serving 50 mph with no spin and not being more than a foot into the court while being completely oblivious to what he was doing.

lol, right, Because that's how everyone serves in the 4.5 leagues.

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

There are 3 points im trying to make:

1) When a cop pulls you over and gives you a ticket, how often does that cop give you a ticket for every single thing they can? If a cop gives you 5 or more tickets you must have done something really wrong. Trust me, if they want to come up with things they can cite you for, they can.

2) Police and lines judges are "neutral parties" enforcing the rules equally across all people. How often does a player call a foot fault themselves? How often does a player call foot faults on their opponents when they themselves are winning?

3) Yes, he is entitled to call foot faults no one disputes that. It's lame given the circumstances, especially since how his opponent broke down, was totally unaware, and then ended up losing. It would be just as lame of me to call a clock on an old lady because she's taking too much time between serves and rushing her along and causing her to overly exert herself into double faulting 4 times in a row. Would you tell that old lady to "quit playing" and give me an award for being rule enforcer of the year? Of course not.

wow, you know how to stir up the hyperbole don't you? Look, you said you had never seen and couldn't imagine an instance where anything positive had come from calling a foot fault. I provided an anecdote to give a contrary example. The guy had at least one shoe completely in the court or it wouldn't even have occurred to me. As I said, almost half of the guys in USTA leagues, even at 4.5 level often have at least a toe if not a foot in the court on their serve. In hundreds of matches I've called it once, only AFTER talking to the guy about it on a changeover.

Your analogies are ridiculous, irrelevant and overblown.

[spot]

Has anyone ever seen someone call a person for a footfault when they are winning?

[Mongolmike]

Originally Posted by spot

Has anyone ever seen someone call a person for a changeover when they are winning?

Did you mean to say call a foot fault if they are winning?

My answer is no I have not, but then I usually don't call it if I see it if its minor (and I'm 99.9% sure I personally don't foot fault because of my set-up, so it's not like I am oblivious to it), but if it was blatant enough, yeah, I'd call it if it was league or tourney and it wouldn't matter if I was up or down.

One guy, who is nicknamed Cheater Joe behind his back, foot faults often... this was a non USTA league on a Saturday morning... organized with about 18 people but just for bragging rights... I called him on it, of course he got ****ed. He beat me, but I called it before the match was decided.

[spot]

Originally Posted by Mongolmike

Did you mean to say call a foot fault if they are winning?

Ha yes. I've never seen it. People can say that they would call it whether they are winning or losing but thats simply not how I have ever seen it called. Its always been a Dbag move by someone who was losing and trying to do anything they could to unsettle the opponent.