Food for thought: More Practice matches.

[TCF]

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[TCF]

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[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by TCF

Again apples and oranges. Soccer requires various positions, some pure speed, others strategic thinking, etc. So they are looking for different things in different players.

If you want to make the comparison to tennis it would be strictly who wins. You lose you go back down a level and have to earn your way back to the elites. After the US Open Jr. Kozlov would remain elite, as would Peliwo....your player would move down a level.

So after the US Open Rubin , Schnieder, Hitzik would have been gone ? WOW that's incredible but I think the soccer guys would see the consitency of all these players and kept them ..

Still would like to see that video of your girl if she looks anything close to DB or Db's sister I may consider what you say but something tells me DB's sister at 7 yrs would have rolled right through her but a video could convince me that she may have held up against and elite athlete 7 yr old like DB's sister ..

Video please ?

[TCF]

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[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by TCF

BB....you started the analogy with Ajax. If you want it to apply to tennis you have to scale the numbers.

No kids would "be gone". They would be moved down a group until they earned their way back up.

The analogy for tennis would be like this. The Ajax people keep a short list of kids they think can be 'elite international competitors'. The list is large at younger ages, and gets shorter. By age 17 it is quite short.

So in tennis we would make a list of all the boys who top coaches think may have a chance to be money making pros. Such a list may contain the top 2 USTA 16s, the top 3 USTA 18s, the top 10 ITFs, the top 5 Euro boys, etc.

Now count how many of them your player has beaten in the last 6 months, the last year. That is the measuring stick an Ajax system for tennis would use, not going from 400 to 7 USTA. How many of the top 400 USTA boys have a shot at being money making pros? 1-2? So the guys he leaped over in USTAs are irrelevant.

Ajax allots for late bloomers too. Thats why the "merely gifted" are not kicked out. They go to a lesser level and if they earn their way back, fantastic.

I get how they work their system , that was not my point in the beginning , what I was pointing out as I have for years on here is that to build players for a higher level you need to start them off with the right mindset in the beginning ,,It not a child friendly there its all business , like I have said you take them to Disneyland for fun and bring them to the tennis court for them to be business-like about competition .

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by TCF

BB....you started the analogy with Ajax. If you want it to apply to tennis you have to scale the numbers.

No kids would "be gone". They would be moved down a group until they earned their way back up.

The analogy for tennis would be like this. The Ajax people keep a short list of kids they think can be 'elite international competitors'. The list is large at younger ages, and gets shorter. By age 17 it is quite short.

So in tennis we would make a list of all the boys who top coaches think may have a chance to be money making pros. Such a list may contain the top 2 USTA 16s, the top 3 USTA 18s, the top 10 ITFs, the top 5 Euro boys, etc.

Now count how many of them your player has beaten in the last 6 months, the last year. That is the measuring stick an Ajax system for tennis would use, not going from 400 to 7 USTA. How many of the top 400 USTA boys have a shot at being money making pros? 1-2? So the guys he leaped over in USTAs are irrelevant.

Ajax allots for late bloomers too. Thats why the "merely gifted" are not kicked out. They go to a lesser level and if they earn their way back, fantastic.

I get how they work their system , that was not my point in the beginning , what I was pointing out as I have for years on here is that to build players for a higher level you need to start them off with the right mindset in the beginning ,,It not a child friendly there its all business , like I have said you take them to Disneyland for fun and bring them to the tennis court for them to be business-like about competition .

Aside from that would like to see a video .

[TCF]

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[valsmokes]

Originally Posted by tennisconsultcom

It is quote from latest article on my blog.
"...Every time you step on the court, there should be a purpose, whether it be with a coach, a ball machine or an opponent. One purpose has to be better strokes, and for this you need a coach. No one deliberately hits incorrect shots, so there’s no point in the player trying to make the correction on his own. It is easier to learn anything — a new stroke, or a new language, when you are young. Waiting until you are in college or on the tour is foolhardy, since without good strokes, you won’t get your college scholarship..."

That is absolutely correct. You need a coach on court with you during practice matches. That is the best way to correct your mistakes and bad strokes. That way you can really keep track if you are fixing the erroneous movements or not. If it is pointed out to the player after each shot he will make the change and get on to the next issue quickly. This is the way all the advanced players/juniors train right now. Always a coach on the court with both opponents working on the strategy/strokes etc...during the practice match.

[TCF]

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[tennisconsultcom]

They are not "top juniors" in reality. You need compare them with world's best players. You'll find that most American "top junior players" are just average players. Why? Because many parents follow this advice from that article ("one lesson per week or per two weeks").

[hound 109]

Comments below:

Originally Posted by valsmokes

That is absolutely correct. You need a coach on court with you during practice matches.

I would suggest it would be better if 50% of all practice matches be miles from the nearest coach (or parent).

That is the best way to correct your mistakes and bad strokes.

& the best way to stifle creativity and trial & error.

That way you can really keep track if you are fixing the erroneous movements or not.

Erroneous? I've heard two different coaches suggest two different things (often). One person's "erroneous" is another coach's "hmm....that's an interesting shot".

If it is pointed out to the player after each shot he will make the change and get on to the next issue quickly.

After each shot? In a practice match? oh dear lord.

This is the way all the advanced players/juniors train right now. Always a coach on the court with both opponents working on the strategy/strokes etc...during the practice match.

No wonder we're seeing a bunch of clones. FWIW, i know of many "advanced/players/juniors" who play lots of practice matches nowhere near a coach (& often not in front of a parent). I personally think that is what the USC coach is saying.

- Play lots of tournaments.
- Play adults. (in a tournament or just for fun)
- Play the guy down the street in front of parents. (or not)
- Play the girl two years older than you in front of a coach. (or not)

Yes get lessons, yes do drills, yes do some match play in front of a coach, but supplement it with more match play (anywhere.... against anyone...NOT in front of a coach).

[valsmokes]

Originally Posted by hound 109

Comments below:



No wonder we're seeing a bunch of clones. FWIW, i know of many "advanced/players/juniors" who play lots of practice matches nowhere near a coach (& often not in front of a parent). I personally think that is what the USC coach is saying.

- Play lots of tournaments.
- Play adults. (in a tournament or just for fun)
- Play the guy down the street in front of parents. (or not)
- Play the girl two years older than you in front of a coach. (or not)

Yes get lessons, yes do drills, yes do some match play in front of a coach, but supplement it with more match play (anywhere.... against anyone...NOT in front of a coach).

I am sorry to tell you but that is how Sloane, Coco, Gabby, Kudla, Laure Davis and a few others train. Same way Chrissy Evert trained. There are other ways, but this is the most effective. 2-3 hours of Private instruction working on your shots and a good practice match with the coach on court. It seems to be working why don't you try it.

[TCF]

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[hhollines]

"A few posters have cited basketball. The dynamics are different, many, many more kids play so the pool of from which the cream rises is much deeper."

I disagree having played both tennis and basketball since the age of 5 and ultimately picking basketball. The dynamics are not that different, we just think they are. Yes, there are more kids playing basketball than football but that's not the point (that's a social environment issue) and not my point. Yes, you need a great coach as I initially posted, however, after that, you can drill all day long but you need practice and tournament matches b/c nothing is the same. And, yes, having a coach watch a practice match is extremely valuable but it's still a practice match/practice sets . . .

We do way too much group drilling, hitting and ball tossing, and parents way too involved. If you let the kid take what they learned from the coach and apply and play with it in a practice match without parent supervision, that starts to look a lot like how we development basketball players, which by the way, the U.S. remains dominant.

The way you develop a player is at odds with the money making machine of tennis and that's the real issue. In fact, give me the player that may lack some fundamentals but has played a ton of practice and tournament matches against juniors, adults, and whomever . . . there are many tennis and basketball players that lack fundamentals but are still top flight players b/c they are so strong mentally and you don't get that drilling all day long . . . you need to play and problem solve in real time, in a real match.

Now, if you can get that and have a great coach, then that's the best of both worlds . . . but if I had to choose, give me the junior that goes out and plays anyone at anytime . . . kid, junior or adult . . .

[hhollines]

"Yes get lessons, yes do drills, yes do some match play in front of a coach, but supplement it with more match play (anywhere.... against anyone...NOT in front of a coach)."

I couldn't agree more, and especially NOT in front of a coach or parent. Kids need room for trial and error but the conditions need to be match-like hence why practice matches/sets are very important. This is really critical for kids in cold weather states and in those states other than CA, FL, TX, etc. where the pool of players is small and competition overall lacks and so leveraging the adults for practice matches is key (i.e., it takes tremendous footwork to play against a good adult hacker . . . it's quite valuable).

Harry

[ga tennis]

I know i need to let my daughter play matches with me not there sometimes. I just know how my daughter is she would wanna have fun and talk the whole time. She would just goof off and play around the whole time.

[TCF]

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[floridatennisdude]

Originally Posted by ga tennis

I know i need to let my daughter play matches with me not there sometimes. I just know how my daughter is she would wanna have fun and talk the whole time. She would just goof off and play around the whole time.

Heaven forbid she have fun and enjoy meeting people. Jeez.

[jigglypuff]

Originally Posted by floridatennisdude

Heaven forbid she have fun and enjoy meeting people. Jeez.

Wrong place, wrong time, and definitely not on her dad's dime.

[ga tennis]

Originally Posted by floridatennisdude

Heaven forbid she have fun and enjoy meeting people. Jeez.

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