WB Comments on Ltr to US Tennis Industry-PART I - Page 4

Rktennis1 · 10-11-2012, 02:24 PM

I've worked with a lot of good kids and in no way do I think money is the issue. Trust me, no club or teacher is going to turn away a potential professional tennis player because of lack of funds. Having a kid like that brings in 20x more juniors and publicity. Heck, a lot of the good kids at academies dont have to pay because they bring in other kids. Now, I'm sure their are a lot of kids playing small college or mid major d1, they could have been great college players but couldn't afford the grind. I was one of those kids. But truly elite potential gets noticed and wouldn't be turned away.

I do think "tennis" in general gives off an expensive vibe to low income parents , so they choose to never even start playing. This perception is probably untrue, but very real. I have parents all the time just assume they cant afford before even looking into it.

Soianka · 10-11-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rktennis1

I've worked with a lot of good kids and in no way do I think money is the issue. Trust me, no club or teacher is going to turn away a potential professional tennis player because of lack of funds. Having a kid like that brings in 20x more juniors and publicity. Heck, a lot of the good kids at academies dont have to pay because they bring in other kids. Now, I'm sure their are a lot of kids playing small college or mid major d1, they could have been great college players but couldn't afford the grind. I was one of those kids. But truly elite potential gets noticed and wouldn't be turned away.

I do think "tennis" in general gives off an expensive vibe to low income parents , so they choose to never even start playing. This perception is probably untrue, but very real. I have parents all the time just assume they cant afford before even looking into it.

Then why did Sachia Vickery's mom have to work 2 jobs to support her daughter's tennis when her daughter was already the #1 14 year old in the country?

Rktennis1 · 10-11-2012, 02:28 PM

After writing that even I forgot how much travel costs...so yeah that is tough. So, I quess I could say the instruction is always there for low income families, but all the travel and etc.... I could see that being a barrier.

Tennishacker · 10-11-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rktennis1

After writing that even I forgot how much travel costs...so yeah that is tough. So, I quess I could say the instruction is always there for low income families, but all the travel and etc.... I could see that being a barrier.

When the kids are young/starting out, the costs aren't too bad, but when they start playing competitive tournaments, that's when thing get really expensive, GAS, hotels, food, time off from work...
Junior tennis is a year round sport, most months you have tournaments every other week, plus national tournaments.

Huge time commitment for parents to shuttle kids to tournaments.

TCF · 10-11-2012, 03:50 PM

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TCF · 10-11-2012, 03:55 PM

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Rktennis1 · 10-11-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rktennis1

I've worked with a lot of good kids and in no way do I think money is the issue. Trust me, no club or teacher is going to turn away a potential professional tennis player because of lack of funds. Having a kid like that brings in 20x more juniors and publicity. Heck, a lot of the good kids at academies dont have to pay because they bring in other kids. Now, I'm sure their are a lot of kids playing small college or mid major d1, they could have been great college players but couldn't afford the grind. I was one of those kids. But truly elite potential gets noticed and wouldn't be turned away.

I do think "tennis" in general gives off an expensive vibe to low income parents , so they choose to never even start playing. This perception is probably untrue, but very real. I have parents all the time just assume they cant afford before even looking into it.

TCF, I Dont disagree with you. From my state Indiana, we have two of the best players in the country. One wealthy, one not. So, I agree. If the talent is there, the money will be too. I didnt realize the vickery girls mother probably needed two jobs anyway to pay for things, regardless of tennis. No one put that in context for me.

Soianka · 10-11-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rktennis1

TCF, I Dont disagree with you. From my state Indiana, we have two of the best players in the country. One wealthy, one not. So, I agree. If the talent is there, the money will be too. I didnt realize the vickery girls mother probably needed two jobs anyway to pay for things, regardless of tennis. No one put that in context for me.

Her mother said she specifically got a 2nd job as a bartender in a strip club to pay for her daughter's tennis expenses.

Quote:

So she hired THREE coaches at the same time

<sarcasm> How come the 3 coaches didn't recognize Sachia's talents and agree to work for free? </sarcasm>

Isn't that the way it works in your fantasy?

Quote:

If the talent is there, the money will be too.

You also need someone to recognize the talent and be knowledgeable enough to develop the talent.

I know a couple of local players who I am convinced would be world class if they had the proper training early on.

They are big, strong and fast but ended up working with local coaches who frankly are not good enough coaches to develop to a player to an elite level.

The examples of poor kids who have "made it" (because they were discovered by the right person early enough or because their parents were exceptional promoters or because their parents sacrificed and worked extraordinarily hard) are exceptions to the rule, not the rule.

Rktennis1 · 10-11-2012, 04:13 PM

You say you saw the potential of some kids that could have been world class. If only they had better coaching.... Not saying you're wrong, but predicting world class is nearly impossible. So many things have to go right for that to happen.

cmb · 10-11-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valsmokes

I know from my experience in Germany. A pro lesson is about 24 Euro an hour. Compare to lessons at our club here at $85 an hour.

and elite training is even cheaper in france. you guys will think im lying if I tell you the truth

ClarkC · 10-11-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCF

Her mother wanted her to be a prodigy and accomplish things at a very young age. So she hired THREE coaches at the same time. She did not know anything about tennis, and over did things. And she is fiercely independent.....she wanted to PAY for the girl's coaching instead of taking things for free. She made the choice, not because help was not available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soianka

<sarcasm> How come the 3 coaches didn't recognize Sachia's talents and agree to work for free? </sarcasm>

Isn't that the way it works in your fantasy?

The above quotes are provided as reading comprehension quiz material for any juniors who are currently preparing for the PSAT, SAT, or ACT. But I have to forewarn any junior players who are reading that the test makers are not kind enough to use bold font for the key sentences.

TCF · 10-11-2012, 05:17 PM

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coaching32yrs · 10-11-2012, 05:21 PM

Some of the posters on this thread don't understand the realities of tennis. I believe they never played and competed in the sport at a high level. They freely throw around terms like could have been an elite player or world class player. They don't get it.....there is one young American male in the top 80. There are no world class players in this country who just didn't get the right opportunity and coaching. The academies and training programs are starving for top players, because they believe it attracts other full paying juniors. My player, a 4 star not an elite athlete, was offered a scholarship at a tennis program- and he didn't even ask for one! I know one player, a 3 star, training on a full scholarship. Most of the programs have 3 or 4 levels. One or 2 kids at the very top helps fill the lower levels with full paying customers. Tennis parents wrongfully believe their junior will get so much better hitting with the hotshot junior in the area.

TCF · 10-11-2012, 05:39 PM

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Soianka · 10-11-2012, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkC

The above quotes are provided as reading comprehension quiz material for any juniors who are currently preparing for the PSAT, SAT, or ACT. But I have to forewarn any junior players who are reading that the test makers are not kind enough to use bold font for the key sentences.

Reading comprehension or perhaps inventing a story to fit ones absurd contention.

I guess some of us might believe that Sachia Vickery's mother worked 2 jobs so that she could pay 3 coaches because she didn't want to accept free training.

However, in reality she actually did accept free training but it was not enough to get Sachia to the top levels of tennis and they could not afford elite level tennis without an extraordinary effort (2nd job as bartender in sketchy place, missing time with children, etc).

Soianka · 10-11-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCF

Yup.

The problem with American tennis is mainly utter delusions. This notion that world class talents are rotting away across America is only in the minds of delusional tennis parents and delusional friends of those parents.

Yep. Kind of like the father who claims his 7.5 year old can beat the nations top 12 year old.

Soianka · 10-11-2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

Some of the posters on this thread don't understand the realities of tennis. I believe they never played and competed in the sport at a high level. They freely throw around terms like could have been an elite player or world class player. They don't get it.....there is one young American male in the top 80. There are no world class players in this country who just didn't get the right opportunity and coaching. The academies and training programs are starving for top players, because they believe it attracts other full paying juniors. My player, a 4 star not an elite athlete, was offered a scholarship at a tennis program- and he didn't even ask for one! I know one player, a 3 star, training on a full scholarship. Most of the programs have 3 or 4 levels. One or 2 kids at the very top helps fill the lower levels with full paying customers. Tennis parents wrongfully believe their junior will get so much better hitting with the hotshot junior in the area.

Your player was offered a scholarship years after training at a high level.

How about the kid who is a track star, excelled in soccer as a young kid (father is a soccer coach) and plays tennis but has only been coached by her parents until age 8 and then the local community tennis center coach who does not teach solid fundamentals and footwork, and does not get decent training until she is in her late teens; yet she makes it to a 4-star level, and is currently playing DI tennis.

But I guess you would have us believe that this kid would only ever be a DI player even if she had an excellent coach starting at a young age....because of the example of "your player."

I'm sorry your reality is not the same as it is for everyone else.

There is no need to condescendingly dismiss other people's experiences because they do not match your own.

hound 109 · 10-11-2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCF

Keep the dang POLITICS OFF THE BOARD. We lost a great thread just last week because of that. Now this one may go.

Enough is enough with that!!

This thread was hijacked 3 pages ago. Lots of good points....only one political comment....but a d*mn interesting original post was snuffed out & hijacked.

fwiw, I disagree with 30% of Wayne Bryan's opinions. But I recognize his experience & the road he has traveled as a player & parent..... & I admire his huevos.

Stokke · 10-11-2012, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCF

Many top WTA and ATP players played elite soccer until 12-14 years old. They did not even take tennis seriously at 8-11. They got amazing from ages 14 through 20-21. As kids they worked on their athletic base, not winning 12s-14s.

Federer, Djokovic, Murray and Nadal all played tournaments at 12. Who are all these top players who waited until 14 to compete?
As kids they worked on their athletic base AND winning 12s-14s.

An elite 12 year old soccer player would, here in Europe, be someone who gets to train with one of the major football clubs. Rest assured - they have no time for tennis.

TCF · 10-11-2012, 07:28 PM

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