Hitting Deep is Overrated.

[5263]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Please don't post misleading stuff. Just behind the service line is not enough - when Nadal hits there it bounces up to the base line and beyond with spin.

Kindly stick to what you want to say rather than going after others with some commercial agenda in mind to repeatedly bring up the name of your leader.

I can see above that you now don't agree with what you said below before, right?

Originally Posted by sureshs

Deep means beyond the service line. It is clear that Djokovic hits deep.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by 5263

So you deny saying numerous times that anything beyond the svc line is good depth?
Another milestone in our progress of terms here on tt!
thanks

Usually I find that the most populated area in the diagram is half way between service line and baseline, with winners closer to the baseline. That is what I have said I have seen on TV.

[5263]

Originally Posted by KenC

I tend to look at shot selection based on how much damage it will do vs. the risk of the shot. Hitting balls really hard and deep certainly does a lot of damage when they go in, and even more if they have a nice angle, but how often do they also go out? Losing the point because of hitting long or wide doesn't do a whole lot of damage to your opponent. But, hitting the ball really hard and 6ft in still does a lot of damage yet has a much better risk.

Excellent points..

[user92626]

Originally Posted by KenC

I tend to look at shot selection based on how much damage it will do vs. the risk of the shot. Hitting balls really hard and deep certainly does a lot of damage when they go in, and even more if they have a nice angle, but how often do they also go out? Losing the point because of hitting long or wide doesn't do a whole lot of damage to your opponent. But, hitting the ball really hard and 6ft in still does a lot of damage yet has a much better risk.

They are all parts of the same equation. Risk, damage, ue, depth, hard, etc. Stop making ridiculous points like one thing is overrated or hitting really hard but 6ft in. Hmm..while you're at it, why don't you skip everything and just advocate hitting the ball right at opponent's toes??? That'll save everyone's time.

[TheCheese]

If you can add a ton of topspin, you can get the same effect as hitting the ball really deep because the ball explodes off the court when it lands. That's why Nadal can get away with hitting relatively short landing loopers against most players.

[floridatennisdude]

Important to consider pace when discussing spin.

A blooper topspin shot landing at the service line is much less effective than if the same shot lands a foot from the baseline. Same with a soft slice for that matter.

But as you add pace (hit heavier) you are able to hit with more margins for a couple reasons. 1) The ball will push through the court and 2) The spin causes the felt to get slowed via air friction and will not travel as far. When 1 and 2 are combined with pace, the opponent is forced to play deeper. Pretty simple concepts.

It's not that landing balls within 3 feet of the baseline is bad, quite the contrary. It's just really fricken hard to completely control pace and spin consistently. Even for top 10 pros.

[ollinger]

Hitting deep is UNDERRATED. It is, simply stated, the one thing you need to do to win. Hit consistently deep and there's essentially no way your opponent can do any damage offensively. Every tennis coach I've ever known has urged me to "miss long" rather than "miss short" in order to promote consistent depth. Watch videos of Djokovic's tremendous run last year (or Connors' entire career) and you'll see balls consistently landing just inside the baseline.

[user92626]

Originally Posted by ollinger

Hitting deep is UNDERRATED. It is, simply stated, the one thing you need to do to win. Hit consistently deep and there's essentially no way your opponent can do any damage offensively. Every tennis coach I've ever known has urged me to "miss long" rather than "miss short" in order to promote consistent depth. Watch videos of Djokovic's tremendous run last year (or Connors' entire career) and you'll see balls consistently landing just inside the baseline.

Yeh, but then there're guys like my buddy who consistently launches the ball long, like 15 long's for every 1 that hits the net bottom.


Bottom line is...just play smart and adapt better. If your opponent is able to get to every shot of yours, you gotta hit with more risks, ie harder, closer to the lines. If you're killing yourself by making too many UEs, scale back. If none of these work, you're playing someone truly better than you. Go back and practice more.

[LeeD]

While hitting deep is ONE of the aspects of winning tennis, consistency, shot placement, and the ability/willingness to run are also equal factors....for baseliners and counterpunchers.
Or, you can hit the ball short and wide, forcing them to run beyond their doubles alleys, then use reverse spin to run them past the other alley, while you stroll to net position.

[tricky]

Some of this is also about knowing percentages. Deep shots makes a lot of sense when you're not changing the direction of the ball. Depth is riskier when you're hitting DTL. Don't overhit short balls. Etc. etc. It's obvious stuff but people forget these things in gameplay.

[5263]

Originally Posted by ollinger

Hitting deep is UNDERRATED. It is, simply stated, the one thing you need to do to win. Hit consistently deep and there's essentially no way your opponent can do any damage offensively. Every tennis coach I've ever known has urged me to "miss long" rather than "miss short" in order to promote consistent depth. Watch videos of Djokovic's tremendous run last year (or Connors' entire career) and you'll see balls consistently landing just inside the baseline.

Whenever I see a post like this I'm pretty sure the person has pretty high UEs and/or
does not hit very hard. We did watch DJ last year did you? His run started when
he quit hitting so deep as he had earlier in his career and started working longer,
safer points. We also have diagrams on this forum of where DJ's shots were landing
and there were very few very near the baseline, but nice try with the normal
tennis myth repeated once again. The evidence does not support your claims.

[LeeD]

The only good thing about being able to hit deep is that it opens up the court for your short angles.
Most of our peers can handle our depth and pace just fine, that's why they are PEERS.
So we can't just hit them off the court, we need to move them around to our strategic advantage.
We need deep shots, but we also need short sharp CC angles.

[user92626]

That's not the only good thing, LeeD. Deep shot requires them to hit farther and harder from the back court so they're more prone to make ues. 2. If you re good at volleying you 'll have more time to run up and finish the point.

[Coach Chad]

Originally Posted by KenC

I tend to look at shot selection based on how much damage it will do vs. the risk of the shot. Hitting balls really hard and deep certainly does a lot of damage when they go in, and even more if they have a nice angle, but how often do they also go out? Losing the point because of hitting long or wide doesn't do a whole lot of damage to your opponent. But, hitting the ball really hard and 6ft in still does a lot of damage yet has a much better risk.

I agree...I played the pusher of all pushers last night...my plan was to run him side to side all evening, which I did...he was able to return deep shots most of the time...but when I hit with more pace and more spin, he would get panicky and commit unforced errors. Also, I could "lull" him with some rallies because he never tried to hit a winner...so I would just hit around 5 or 6 with him, hit a drop shot to bring him in, then unload a shot with pace and spin well inside the baseline for the win. Won the first set 6-3 and he retired with me winning the second set 5-2 because of a blister. Pace and spin before deep in my opinion. If you get both, fine.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by ollinger

Hitting deep is UNDERRATED. It is, simply stated, the one thing you need to do to win. Hit consistently deep and there's essentially no way your opponent can do any damage offensively.

With the caveat that "deep" simply means pinning your opponent deep (not hitting inches from the baseline), I think this is smart tennis.

The problem we will always have with this discussion is defining what "deep" means. The members that want to argue against deep hitting will argue that "hitting an inch from the baseline just means you'll hit tons of UE's", conveniently ignoring what people are really trying to say.

Equivocating on terms is a great weapon in rhetoric contests. But if you are really trying to work through an issue (and not just win an argument for the sake of winning an argument), it is best to come to an agreement on the meaning of common terms being used.

[InspectorRacquet]

Originally Posted by KenC

Everyone says to hit deep with a lot of topspin. How many people can actually do this well without constantly hitting long? Do you try to hit every ball say within 3 ft of the baseline? I think depth really doesn't matter as much as we think it does, and a ball hit to 6ft. from the baseline can do just as much damage as a ball 6in. from the baseline.

I am one of those people that constantly hit the baseline and within 3 feet of the baseline. Do I try to do so? It really comes naturally to me to hit deep most of the time. If I have an off day, yes, I do try to hit deep and with a lot of topspin.

As far as a ball doing as much damage 6 inches from the baseline and 6 feet from the baseline, I wholeheartedly disagree based on personal experience. When I hit as deep as I usually do, so many opponents don't have the good timing to stay glued to the baseline, and thus have to back up. They then cough up a short ball (relatively short, that is), and I control the point from there. When I have an off day and can only hit 6 feet from the baseline or less, the topspin makes the opponent unable to come in (because it's not a short ball), but they can hit angles and winners with relative ease.

For me, hitting deep is my life. If I don't, I'm forced to go for more than I'm comfortable doing.

Also, because I hit deep so often, I don't really make that many unforced errors. The topspin keeps it in.

[LeeD]

Strange, all you guys talk about how great hitting deep is, then you pummell your opponent, who is obviously not at your level.
Play someone who can handle your depth, or your pace, and you'll find a totally different story.
We don't judge our tennis play by beating lesser opponents. Our tennis skills is judged againt our peers.
I can serve any 3.0 off the court. Any 4.5 will return most of my serves with effectiveness. I judge my serves against other 4.0's, because I AM a 4.0.

[5263]

Originally Posted by r2473

will argue that "hitting an inch from the baseline just means you'll hit tons of UE's", conveniently ignoring what people are really trying to say.

Equivocating on terms is a great weapon in rhetoric contests. But if you are really trying to work through an issue (and not just win an argument for the sake of winning an argument), it is best to come to an agreement on the meaning of common terms being used.

Now isn't that funny!! You give misinfo about people hitting 1 inch from the BL
and how posters ignore what is really being said....then give that little speech
at the end about just trying to win an argument??? Really? lol

No one ever said anything about hitting 1 inch from BL (even though some players
try that), so why do you bring that in here. Most have discussed from 3-6 ft
from the BL, with on suresh giving the ridiculous comment that svc line was
good depth. He is who you should go after...not some mythical poster you have
imagined and sort of become with your comments above.

[5263]

Originally Posted by InspectorRacquet

When I have an off day and can only hit 6 feet from the baseline or less, the topspin makes the opponent unable to come in (because it's not a short ball), but they can hit angles and winners with relative ease.

For me, hitting deep is my life. If I don't, I'm forced to go for more than I'm comfortable doing.
Also, because I hit deep so often, I don't really make that many unforced errors. The topspin keeps it in.

Are you really a 3.5 as in your sig? this would make sense, as you don't hit that
hard yet; and without pace, depth is more important, along with depth being much
more effective at 3.5 to low 4.0 where they don't position as well.
When a player can hit with more pace and spin, the direction of shot becomes
more of a factor than depth, as depth hardly bothers good players due to skills
and better positioning, but a hard ball away from you is tough to get to even
if you are skilled and you may not even get there.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Strange, all you guys talk about how great hitting deep is, then you pummell your opponent, who is obviously not at your level.
Play someone who can handle your depth, or your pace, and you'll find a totally different story.
We don't judge our tennis play by beating lesser opponents. Our tennis skills is judged againt our peers.
I can serve any 3.0 off the court. Any 4.5 will return most of my serves with effectiveness. I judge my serves against other 4.0's, because I AM a 4.0.

Lee...you have hit it right here, but most will never see the importance of it.