armstrong atlantic

[Dream_On]

Originally Posted by andfor

This is what some folks want. I also predict that some schools will drop tennis because they can't field a full squad. But there are many who don't care if small college tennis goes away. They don't care as long as the internationals are limited and little Johnny gets to now play tennis at his dream BCS school. But guess what? Johnny still can't play at his dream BCS school, he's still not good enough and the internationals are still there. Meanwhile many smaller schools that could have used Johnny's tennis skills but were scoffed at by him, are left looking for tennis player to fill there line ups. And they look where they are apprieciated, internationally .

Exactly, I know at least 3 NJCAA Programs that have almost dropped tennis this year for Mens/Womens Soccer and are still looking at doing it in the next few years. Its a ridiculous rule and has meant that the CCCAA (california junior college) IE - ONE STATE is stronger and deeper in talent than the rest of the countries juco's.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by Dream_On

Exactly, I know at least 3 NJCAA Programs that have almost dropped tennis this year for Mens/Womens Soccer and are still looking at doing it in the next few years. Its a ridiculous rule and has meant that the CCCAA (california junior college) IE - ONE STATE is stronger and deeper in talent than the rest of the countries juco's.

Great rule only if adopted by all the governing bodies.

[ga tennis]

My friend is the coach there. He tells me that he cannot get good Americans because they think they are too good for div2. These kids would rather go to UGA and never play than to go div2 and play. Its not the coaches fault its the mentality of our kids and their egos and how they percieve themselves as well as how they see div2 tennis. Here in my hometown we have a division two team that now the coach is really trying to recruit players from georgia and he is from Canada. The problem is hes only able to get average players to come and play. I still applaud his effort to try to bring in more Georgia boys and girls even if they are now not competetive with the top div2 programs. At least hes giving them a shot at playing college tennis. If i was a college coach and my A.D. didnt put pressure on me to win now i would recruit all georgia boys. I would work to develop these players and actually be a coach instead of a recruiter. Thats another big problem with div2 tennis. You have coaches that have no clue how to develop a player they only know how to recruit.

[andfor]

^^^^Agreed. I know some coaches that specifically try to take a balanced approach to bringing in internationals and US kids. All programs from the big to small ones are different. That's why I still say there's plenty of college tennis opportunity for US kids willing to look for it.

[Dream_On]

Originally Posted by andfor

Great rule only if adopted by all the governing bodies.

So you would rather there be hardly any tennis programs at all, rather than having ones of which some have a lot of internationals? where would all the americans play at then? the same places they do now, on the bench for uga like the post above says while the internationals play at the d2's and actually get to play.

[floridatennisdude]

Originally Posted by Dream_On

So you would rather there be hardly any tennis programs at all, rather than having ones of which some have a lot of internationals? where would all the americans play at then? the same places they do now, on the bench for uga like the post above says while the internationals play at the d2's and actually get to play.

It's just that the lower end (JCs) making the rule, just makes their best talent work harder for an opportunity at a higher level. The JCs have a diluted product that still doesn't have a domestic demand. Thus, programs will be unable to be competitive and, possibly, unable to fill a roster. The upper level programs become stronger as they cherry pick from the lower levels.

Now, if D1 created a max 2 limit it would be different. Their product would be diluted initially. But it would provide leadership approval for the lower levels to also dilute their talent. The problem is convincing the NCAA that it isn't discrimination to exclude people from their schools athletic programs based on a residency. It's just not going to happen.

The supply of American tennis talent doesn't match the demand for players that can play at college levels. It's not going to help the sport by providing more opportunities to people of this country. It's just going to make the product weak.

It's pretty simple economic theory that gets resolved via supply and demand. What happens when you cut off supply? Demand.....

[andfor]

I'm for what ever keeps college tennis programs from being cut, first. And the internationals have nothing to do with that. Second. I'm for increasing the number of US kids interest and talent for the college game. A very distant third would be for limits on internationals playing college tennis. I'd much rather see US kids play college tennis where the school and tennis are a fit, enjoy the experience and be greatful for it. Stop all the whining and whoa is me belly aching about why it can't be done because of the international influx. Improve, play, get an education and enjoy. Only in the US can you go to college and get athletic scholarship to do so. It's still a great thing.

[gavna]

I know this whole international player issue has been debated ad nauseum here on these boards but I had this week some VERY interesting discussions with a new pro we just hired. My club just brought on board this past month Merideth Walton who was the head coach at William and Mary for the past 4 years. In her view the main reason we have so many internationals is lazy coaches, it is an easy fix and now with many coaches themselves from overseas the first inclination is to get the foreign kid.
When I brought up this whole issue of Americans not wanting to play at the lower D1 or any D2 or D3 level due to lack of prestige she bluntly stated BS! Yes some top top players who don't get offers at USC or Stanford or UGA...etc would balk at "settling" but she said from her experience there are many many more kids who want to play and get an offer at all the levels. It's the coaches themselves who reach out for the easy fix and bypass the American player.

[ClarkC]

Originally Posted by gavna

When I brought up this whole issue of Americans not wanting to play at the lower D1 or any D2 or D3 level due to lack of prestige she bluntly stated BS! Yes some top top players who don't get offers at USC or Stanford or UGA...etc would balk at "settling" but she said from her experience there are many many more kids who want to play and get an offer at all the levels. It's the coaches themselves who reach out for the easy fix and bypass the American player.

About 6 years ago, one of the top doubles teams in the country on the men's side was from Middle Tennessee State. Later, they got John Peers from Australia, who spent his last year at Baylor and now is doing well as a pro, especially in doubles. Anyone who thinks that MTSU could do as well recruiting domestically is out of touch. It is not just the top few recruits who turn their noses up at the likes of MTSU. The #50 recruit in the country does not want to go to MTSU in a typical recruiting year, and John Peers et al. proved to be a lot better than the #50 recruit in their recruiting classes.

Yes, you are right, this topic has been discussed endlessly on these boards, and part of the reason is that one side of the discussion talks in generalities and does not give concrete examples. I look forward to a list of all the 4-star and below recruits who have been as successful as Peers and Siljestrom from MTSU. Do we get one example a year? One example every five years, or every ten years? If you can sign a 4-star and "coach him up" to the level of Peers or Siljestrom, then where are the examples?