Heavy Topspin is Overrated.

[LeeD]

That's where RHS is your best friend, you simply overpower the incoming ball.

[firepanda]

There are far, far too many Nadal wannabes at amateur level. Myself included, to an extent. The more topspin, the better, is how I see it. However, you can't compromise pace and depth or your balls are easy putaways.

[Metalica]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

AMEN. Finally it's time that someone agrees with me, and I'll bet dollars to donuts that the person making this post can really play.

These guys today, the so called "Modern Tennis" is no more than people with no skills using monster spin rackets just returning the ball, anyone can do that. But to win, you must PLACE SHOTS, many times slow shots are more effective than "Heavy shots", yet the amateurs on this forum don't understand this.

I will ralley a guy at the baseline with my "Small" PS 90, they just cut over and over with their Bab 100 spin rackets, it's so predictable, so simple for me to move them around, I MUST place my shots, must go back and forth, then just drop over the net, baseliners, even at the pro level have no clue what to do with that, it makes them mentally insecure, they never know if you are going long or drop it, so they have no clue where to play.

My 11 year old sons best shots are to hit with me baseline to baseline, then disquise his shot and drop it over the net, I can't get it. I'm not what I used to be, but I can't get it, a flat drop to my back hand where I can't even get to it is effective.

85-90" rackets are the best, they force you to place your shots, not just be a Andy Murray type and simply get the ball over the net.

Of course beginners will claim they play well with huge heads, but they are playing better than they actually play, shot making needs to be returned to Tennis and it will, you'll see....

Ironically, Andy Murray is one of the best player on tour at placing shots and mixing things up...

[GoaLaSSo]

This may have already been mentioned somewhere, but topspin and pace obviously go best together. However, it is not a bad strategy at all to primarily hit softer loopier rally shots (even at moderately high levels of play).

If your opponent can handle these shots easily something else obviously must be done, but most people will not crush these shots consistently and these can set you up for short shots that you can step into.

It is also a misconception that players with western grips hit with less pace. Western grips are great for hitting shots at 80-90% speed and power with more consistently. Players with this grip (although it is possible with all grips) can really throw their body through the ball and keep it in with more of a line drive topspin, as well as loopier topspin. It may be a bit harder to crush shots at 100% and hit outright winners, but many players would rather stay on the safer side. Not everyone (especially not rec players and young juniors) can crush shots like del potro.

[r2473]

^^ I agree with GoaLaSSo

[5263]

Originally Posted by GoaLaSSo

This may have already been mentioned somewhere, but topspin and pace obviously go best together. However, it is not a bad strategy at all to primarily hit softer loopier rally shots (even at moderately high levels of play).

Your post is worth repeating, even if it was mentioned before. well said.

[HEADfamilydynasty]

Originally Posted by Thud and blunder

Seen a few 4.0 Nadals; never seen a 4.0 Fed

You need to meet my friend.

[LeeD]

Well, the definition of a "rally ball" IS a softer hit, safe replicable loopy topspin nowadaze, isn't it?
The result of a hard hit, win or lose groundie is exactly that, with more loses than wins.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Well, the definition of a "rally ball" IS a softer hit, safe replicable loopy topspin nowadaze, isn't it?
The result of a hard hit, win or lose groundie is exactly that, with more loses than wins.

Not for me.
I teach the rally shot as the biggest, strongest rip at the ball. Very aggressive
with power and spin, but too far back & too much power to worry with being too
close to the lines. Depend on power, spin, hop, and consistency to earn short
attackable returns.

[LeeD]

You can only teach young, fit players who are trying to make it in tennis.
Old farts can't hit every ball hard.
And you will kill the rotator cuff in most of your students in a short time.
I"d back off that statement about "ripping" every rallyball as hard as you can swing, but aim to a safer spot idea. That is really blind tennis.
Even in young, fit, athletic kids, some rip like Courier, but other's message and feel like Gilbert, Rios, and Mecir.
Don't make the mistake of insisting every player has the same mentality or physical determination to just rip the ball every time.
I know the idea of simply swing hard and getting it in sounds romantic and a reachable goal, but it really is a fantasy for most players.
This coming from an old fart with rotator cuff problems on both shoulders and no ability to run.

[t135]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

I understand, and to the naked eye all seems well.

However, take out a small head size, I have a PS 90 and a K-Factor 95, with the 90, I'm not talking about what we see in the pro's but reality, and with the 95 it's extra effort, I have to find the sweetspot to place my shots, with the 90 it's intuitive, like that dude on TW says "It's like an extention of your arm".

So yea, I was actually thinking the same thing, you see these guys with huge Babs slamming it back and forth, but if you elimate the common denomiator, it comes down to who is in better shape, that's why Rafa is in such peril, but when you are a true shot maker, you NEED a small head size so you can put your shot here and there.

I can go out tomorrow and get a Rafa Racket, put RPM blast in it, and yea, I can get more spin consitantly, but Tennis is SO MUCH MORE than topspin, it's topspin, slice, and flat shots, so Bab is doing great for now with their philosophy, but always the all-court player will come out on top, Sampras, Fed, and we'll have some other dominant player who is more than just a hussler.

Want to learn to play real tennis? Get a 75 inch head wood, then move up to a huge 90 inch head so you can place your shots AND have inherit power,

Babolot huge spin rackets are for amateurs, or those who specilize in clay

Dang man, how many slams you won? Sounds like you got it all figured out. Impressive.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by 5263

Not for me.
I teach the rally shot as the biggest, strongest rip at the ball. Very aggressive
with power and spin, but too far back & too much power to worry with being too
close to the lines. Depend on power, spin, hop, and consistency to earn short
attackable returns.

Originally Posted by LeeD

You can only teach young, fit players who are trying to make it in tennis.
Old farts can't hit every ball hard.
And you will kill the rotator cuff in most of your students in a short time.
I"d back off that statement about "ripping" every rallyball as hard as you can swing, but aim to a safer spot idea. That is really blind tennis.
Even in young, fit, athletic kids, some rip like Courier, but other's message and feel like Gilbert, Rios, and Mecir.
Don't make the mistake of insisting every player has the same mentality or physical determination to just rip the ball every time.
I know the idea of simply swing hard and getting it in sounds romantic and a reachable goal, but it really is a fantasy for most players.
This coming from an old fart with rotator cuff problems on both shoulders and no ability to run.

I'm going to be 50 in a couple of days and I take a pretty serious rip at rally balls for exactly the reason that 5263 says. I'm hitting hard, lots of pace and spin, hitting to areas but not intentionally going for lines, usually cross court, and just trying to get get my opponent to cough up something I can attack. Being able to take that big cut but maintain a reasonable level of consistency has been my mission for the last couple of years. It's been slowly getting there. I can definitely look back a year and see the improvement. I'm fortunate to have a couple of guys that I play with who can really push me.

Everything still works. I haven't injured myself yet.

[corbind]

Blanket statements do very little without qualification describing the surrounding situation and conditions. But this is a forum so often statements will be make without context. I'm still reading...

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

You can only teach young, fit players who are trying to make it in tennis.
Old farts can't hit every ball hard.
And you will kill the rotator cuff in most of your students in a short time.
I"d back off that statement about "ripping" every rallyball as hard as you can swing, but aim to a safer spot idea. That is really blind tennis.
Even in young, fit, athletic kids, some rip like Courier, but other's message and feel like Gilbert, Rios, and Mecir.
Don't make the mistake of insisting every player has the same mentality or physical determination to just rip the ball every time.
I know the idea of simply swing hard and getting it in sounds romantic and a reachable goal, but it really is a fantasy for most players.
This coming from an old fart with rotator cuff problems on both shoulders and no ability to run.

You might want to read my post again. I never said hit every ball hard; or even every rally ball hard.
I said I teach the rally ball as the biggest rip, meaning the biggest shot in the bag, like
hitting the big bertha driver. Pointing out you hit it harder than most other shots.
Of course you don't get the postion and set up to rip every one of
them, but when you do, give it the good rip you can. I didn't say go beyond you physical
ability and hurt yourself, but yet, with good modern technique, I don't see any reason you
can't take a good rip. If it is hurting you, then you are doing it wrong or already have an injury problem.
Good modern technique didn't likely cause it.
You are reading a lot into things that were never said or intended.

[GoaLaSSo]

Ripping a ball does not mean you are muscling the ball. I "rip" the ball best when my arm and shoulder are relaxed and I am able to load up and throw my body through it. The reason why a lot of pros look like they aren't even trying is because they really aren't trying to swing that hard. They are trying to swing with perfect fluidity.

With proper weight transfer and the whole shabang it should not be so damaging to "rip" the ball. It may be more difficult if you are not very limber, but I don't see how it would hurt younger players with good flexibility.

For instance, one of the shots I feel like I put the least energy into is my first serve. I just relax and allow my jump, twist, and limp arm to explode through (live or whatever else you wanna call it). It really surprised me when I first began doing this because I could hit the ball a bit harder than usual and it seems a lot easier.

[LeeD]

Please, if you can, if you desire, post a vid of your first servde.

[GoaLaSSo]

Why? I'm not claiming to serve like Raonic or anything. I am saying what ends up working best for me is relaxing my arm and swinging smarter rather than harder...

No need to go on the attack

[LeeD]

"please, if you can, if you desire".... that's a pretty strong attack, I'd say, wouldn't you?

[GoaLaSSo]

No, it is a passive aggressive attack. I'm still not quite sure what I said for you to wanna single me out, unless you just really just wanna see how pretty or ugly my serve is for the fun of it.

[LeeD]

How can your serve be ugly if you hit it relaxed, and hit goes good?