Finding my strokes after 20 years. Stroke video inside - Page 14

Greg G · 10-12-2012, 07:08 PM

Thanks Leed! Apologies for the slice, I was just chopping it back, my thoughts were on the forehand. But yes thanks for pointing that out before it becomes a bad habit. Topspin backhand is kind of old school I suppose. But what is new school anyway? I can hit it with heavier top.

Working on mobility- frustrating because that was my strong point back in the day. Still, I do need to be more explosive on the first step.

Re alu power- I think that's a good description..I have no feel for the ball when I hit it. Very strange. Gotta get some Tour Bite back in to reset my mind.

LeeD · 10-12-2012, 07:36 PM

New school backhand is longer followthru, turning the racket over, and ending up on your right hand side of your body, facing the right sideline, not facing the target like yours.
Every guy I know who is 6'1" and 220 lbs. who hit snot out of the ball love AluPower even after a month. I like it for 3 groundies, then just blah.....

Greg G · 10-12-2012, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

New school backhand is longer followthru, turning the racket over, and ending up on your right hand side of your body, facing the right sideline, not facing the target like yours.

Is this semi-modern then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch8B7WoyHo8

Cheetah · 10-12-2012, 08:58 PM

Where's that PTD you keep threatening us with?

Greg G · 10-12-2012, 10:19 PM

Hmm. OK let's break it down again.

I think pics 1-3 look OK. The thumb down thing seems to work.

5 looks like a late cocking of the wrist? Or rather early supination...

6 shows my thumb up

OK so I half fixed the takeback

I was aware of the thumb down until I released the left hand. Hopefully now that I've really, really identified it, I can fix it. Fingers crossed.

Cheetah · 10-13-2012, 12:37 AM

Nice Sharapova you got going on there in image #6

Greg G · 10-13-2012, 01:59 AM

More Masha is good

I should just switch to full western

Will repost your pics to remind me:

10-13-2012, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg G

More Masha is good

I should just switch to full western

Will repost your pics to remind me:

Ok, so what we're looking for here (at least what i think you are looking for) is a backswing absent external rotation of the arm. (this should occur at the beginning of the forward swing) That would mean, that the wrist is neutral, the forearm is on the "pronated side" (not supinated).

One way to correct this, is to "hide" the butt cap until you pull the racquet forward. Can you see how in your photo sequence, as soon as the hands separate you start to rotate the entire arm externally, wrist extended, arm supinated and BUTTCAP TO BALL alignment? Contrast this with the Fed pictures and notice how the butt cap is angled back and away from the ball throughout the backswing...thus saving the flip and alignment for the forward swing....Anyway, another way to look/correct this...good luck. It's probably worth the effort, as it will lead to a shorter, more direct line to the ball.

LeeD · 10-13-2012, 06:09 PM

That backhand groundie is much closer. Most guys would use a longer backswing that starts higher, not a straight takeback that needs to be lifted upwards in a separate motion.
Finish is much better. Don't copy Vilas, instead copy Fed.

Greg G · 10-14-2012, 04:37 AM

Best video I've found on the proper position of the racquet head in relation to forearm/thumb position. Posting for easy reference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtQvmWUxFiM

Greg G · 10-14-2012, 05:31 PM

OK I broke it down today. Did the exercises on the forehand stretch shortening cycle described on VTA.

Working on the pat the dog position and the stretch shortening cycle. Please bear with the boring videos and tell me if this part is OK already.

http://youtu.be/TkJ9tLkiWJs

Moved to half court cooperative hitting.

Crosscourt:
http://youtu.be/HcJCwbpdsNk

Inside out:
http://youtu.be/kbDphVFHnPc

Moving back to the baseline:
http://youtu.be/FomtA8un6jU

I think doing the progressions has helped. The arc of the ball is much better- I do think when I moved back to the baseline, I look a bit stiffer/less loose. I do feel the SSC a bit more, so I suppose that's good. Will probably spend some more time doing these progressions.

Cheetah · 10-14-2012, 06:29 PM

Well, you're trying so I'll give you some points for that.

But... that's not it. I know what you're going through. Been there myself. But just take my word for it... you don't have the 'feeling' of that move yet. It takes awhile.

The first problem is your right leg. You have this habit, which I mentioned before

, that your last step is your left leg. You always plant and load with your right but then you step out with your left leg. That messes everything up and causes you to arm the ball and pull off to the left side like you did in your dancing days. you need to move to the ball and the LAST STEP is the loading of the right leg. then push off the right. what you are doing now is load on right, step on left leg (which unloads everything

) then you are standing up on your right.

To get the 'millenium fh' down and the ssc you need to push off the right. You can't start the move just with the arm like you are doing. The tutorial on VTA is spot on. He emphasizes this point too several times and he is correct. You need to do that set position and then push off with your right leg. He shadows that part over and over in the vid. Trust me, I know how to do this and I'm guaranteeing with 100% confidence that you cannot do that move without the loose arm and leg push. The leg push doesn't have to be huge. Any push will do. If you push off with the right leg and the racquet is in the position he describes (which yours isn't btw) and your arm is loose then you are going to be able to do it.

You need to fix your racquet set up before the move. You have it a little flat. Watch the VTA vid again and get your setup to look like that. The racquet has to be in the exact position or extremely close to it for this move to work.

It's not easy to get the feel. I've been there. You gotta shadow swing the crap out of it till somehow u do it right once and the lightbulb will go off in your head and you'll go 'ohhhh!!! that's it!!!!!'.

Here's some advice.. if the move doesn't feel 100% natural and 100% very easy to do then you are doing it wrong and you need to change something. If you do it right it's very easy and feels good and you will know you are doing it right.

If you do it right the racquet moves like that on it's own. You don't have to manipulate it. It just goes by itself and it will look like all the pros.

Look at Li Na. If she can do it so can you. Does your racquet path like like this? The answer is no.

If you do it right it will look like this. You don't have to be a mega athlete or super flexible. This is just the way the racquet moves if you follow every single step with all the reference points and angles that vta describes.

Don't flick your arm. Don't flick your wrist etc like u are doing in those shadow swings. The racquet will move by itself if done correctly. And contact is made when your wrist returns to neutral like Li Na's. And note how Li Na is going into the ball (her energy from the swing is going into contact). Unlike you, because of that left leg, you always seem to go to the left.

Greg G · 10-14-2012, 06:57 PM

Bloody hell! Lol

Ok. The leg again. Will get it fixed.

Cheetah · 10-14-2012, 07:02 PM

just trust me. if you do it right you won't have to ask if it is right. you'll know it. watch the vta vid again. mimic everything he says.

Greg G · 10-14-2012, 07:13 PM

Will do. Those were the drills in the "SSC 2009" vid. Will re watch for the leg action, but Heath did say to do that with the wrist to get the feeling of ulnar deviation/ radial deviation as opposed to pronation/supination. Will do the drills from the "Millenium Forehand" vid as well. All my thoughts today were on the forearm position.

No worries, I still feel today was a step in the right direction.

On a side note, Dunlop Black Widow 17 has rescued me from the hell of Alu Power 16L. I can feel the ball again

Cheetah · 10-14-2012, 07:48 PM

not quite. he didn't say 'do that with the wrist'. he mentions the leg push / hip turn and then shadows it and says 'get this feeling here in the wrist' 'this is the feeling you want to get'. you want to feel your wrist / racquet move like this' etc. he doesn't say "do" this with the wrist.

and he says 'feel the suppination' and i think the only thing he said you might want to 'do' is near contact where he said you 'can'
radial deviate your wrist.

Greg G · 10-15-2012, 12:52 AM

Here's a super slow mo of the SSC progression drill. I think it may show the form better.

http://youtu.be/-nJ41yA5o7g

Still sequence. Yes, it needs a lot more loading/exploding on the right leg, but it doesn't look half bad. At least the pat the dog is there

Cheetah · 10-15-2012, 09:11 AM

Looks better. You almost got it. I'd say that form is 70% correct.
One this is a bit off. Can you tell me what it is?

edit: noticed something else. 2 things haha. i think the 2nd thing could be because of the 1st thing.

LeeD · 10-15-2012, 09:22 AM

Wow, sequencial photography is great for analysis.
Bottom line, your contact point is too far to the side, not enough forward, so you take your forehand's late late late. Get your rackethand forward at contact.
That's a wierd hybrid almost conti looking contact point with a semi modern grip.

Greg G · 10-15-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Looks better. You almost got it. I'd say that form is 70% correct.
One this is a bit off. Can you tell me what it is?

edit: noticed something else. 2 things haha. i think the 2nd thing could be because of the 1st thing.

Thats actually from the same video I posted above. Anyway- I suppose it's not the obvious leg loading. Is it the stance being too open? Or the left arm being too low?

LeeD thanks, will look into those points.

10-12-2012, 10:19 PM	#265
Greg G Semi-Pro Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 589	Hmm. OK let's break it down again. I think pics 1-3 look OK. The thumb down thing seems to work. 5 looks like a late cocking of the wrist? Or rather early supination... 6 shows my thumb up OK so I half fixed the takeback I was aware of the thumb down until I released the left hand. Hopefully now that I've really, really identified it, I can fix it. Fingers crossed. Last edited by Greg G : 10-12-2012 at 11:27 PM.

10-13-2012, 12:37 AM	#266
Cheetah Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,243	Nice Sharapova you got going on there in image #6 Last edited by Cheetah : 10-13-2012 at 12:40 AM.

10-13-2012, 01:59 AM	#267
Greg G Semi-Pro Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 589	More Masha is good I should just switch to full western Will repost your pics to remind me: Last edited by Greg G : 10-13-2012 at 02:07 AM.

10-14-2012, 05:31 PM	#271
Greg G Semi-Pro Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 589	OK I broke it down today. Did the exercises on the forehand stretch shortening cycle described on VTA. Working on the pat the dog position and the stretch shortening cycle. Please bear with the boring videos and tell me if this part is OK already. http://youtu.be/TkJ9tLkiWJs Moved to half court cooperative hitting. Crosscourt: http://youtu.be/HcJCwbpdsNk Inside out: http://youtu.be/kbDphVFHnPc Moving back to the baseline: http://youtu.be/FomtA8un6jU I think doing the progressions has helped. The arc of the ball is much better- I do think when I moved back to the baseline, I look a bit stiffer/less loose. I do feel the SSC a bit more, so I suppose that's good. Will probably spend some more time doing these progressions. Last edited by Greg G : 10-14-2012 at 05:39 PM.

10-14-2012, 06:29 PM	#272
Cheetah Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,243	Well, you're trying so I'll give you some points for that. But... that's not it. I know what you're going through. Been there myself. But just take my word for it... you don't have the 'feeling' of that move yet. It takes awhile. The first problem is your right leg. You have this habit, which I mentioned before , that your last step is your left leg. You always plant and load with your right but then you step out with your left leg. That messes everything up and causes you to arm the ball and pull off to the left side like you did in your dancing days. you need to move to the ball and the LAST STEP is the loading of the right leg. then push off the right. what you are doing now is load on right, step on left leg (which unloads everything ) then you are standing up on your right. To get the 'millenium fh' down and the ssc you need to push off the right. You can't start the move just with the arm like you are doing. The tutorial on VTA is spot on. He emphasizes this point too several times and he is correct. You need to do that set position and then push off with your right leg. He shadows that part over and over in the vid. Trust me, I know how to do this and I'm guaranteeing with 100% confidence that you cannot do that move without the loose arm and leg push. The leg push doesn't have to be huge. Any push will do. If you push off with the right leg and the racquet is in the position he describes (which yours isn't btw) and your arm is loose then you are going to be able to do it. You need to fix your racquet set up before the move. You have it a little flat. Watch the VTA vid again and get your setup to look like that. The racquet has to be in the exact position or extremely close to it for this move to work. It's not easy to get the feel. I've been there. You gotta shadow swing the crap out of it till somehow u do it right once and the lightbulb will go off in your head and you'll go 'ohhhh!!! that's it!!!!!'. Here's some advice.. if the move doesn't feel 100% natural and 100% very easy to do then you are doing it wrong and you need to change something. If you do it right it's very easy and feels good and you will know you are doing it right. If you do it right the racquet moves like that on it's own. You don't have to manipulate it. It just goes by itself and it will look like all the pros. Look at Li Na. If she can do it so can you. Does your racquet path like like this? The answer is no. If you do it right it will look like this. You don't have to be a mega athlete or super flexible. This is just the way the racquet moves if you follow every single step with all the reference points and angles that vta describes. Don't flick your arm. Don't flick your wrist etc like u are doing in those shadow swings. The racquet will move by itself if done correctly. And contact is made when your wrist returns to neutral like Li Na's. And note how Li Na is going into the ball (her energy from the swing is going into contact). Unlike you, because of that left leg, you always seem to go to the left. Last edited by Cheetah : 10-14-2012 at 06:37 PM.