WB Comments on Ltr to US Tennis Industry-PART I

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Soianka

Many say Donald Young started playing pro level too soon and got used to losing.

Or perhaps he would never have been a great player and it was a good idea to go pro and get publicity earlier and make money from sponsorships while he was hot. I think he has made enough money already which can last him a lifetime if invested properly.

[TCF]

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[Soianka]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Or perhaps he would never have been a great player and it was a good idea to go pro and get publicity earlier and make money from sponsorships while he was hot. I think he has made enough money already which can last him a lifetime if invested properly.

Perhaps. He did make it to 30-something, so it seems he has the potential to be a moneymaking pro.

I've seen Donald play a lot since we live in the same town and I had some connection with his coaching team.

A lot of his problem seems to be between his ears. But that is just my humble non-tennis-insider opinion.

I just think throwing him out there so young was not a great idea.

[Alohajrtennis]

Originally Posted by TCF

Once again....you and I are still tied in the number of money making pros we have developed. So at this point we both are equal in that race.

Oh wait....I did work a lot with Sekou Bangoura Jr....and he did become #1 ranked 18.....so yeah for me, I am winning right now!

Here is it again..the Baughman corollary to Godwin's law...

[TCF]

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[BSPE84]

Originally Posted by TCF

What? Those guys are poster children for sacred cows and safe thinking. Jan Silva's dad went the route that if someone can hit a ball at 5 they will be great. That tennis prodigy garbage thing has been done over and over again for years. Move to FL, or move to France, who cares, same thing that many have done when conned by tennis conmen.. Most on this board lapped it up. Makes them feel safe that if a kid is good at 5 then the tennis improvement will be nice and linear. Some of us slapped reality at them and we were crushed for it.

Same with BB....total game playing, using early results as a big deal when the kid is a foot taller in the 10s-14s, then start playing the picking tournament thing and ducking the top in the age group. Same dodging nonsense that has been done for decades. God forbid he get beaten by the top 16s. Again....most here lap it up, 'yeah, if he was this ranking at age 16 he must be going to do that as an adult.'

You miss the point. The group wants to believe if Jr. has this ability at that age then all will be nice and safe and smooth and predictable.

Actually, seems to me you’re the one who is being a contradiction right now. You banged on those guys mercilessly for their outrageous goals and unconventional ways with respect to training and tournament schedule. Yet here you are making an outrageous claim about your 8-year old destroying the 12s national champion, thanks to her freakish talent and your unconventional coaching skills - “the perfect storm”.

Regardless if it’s true or not, Brad claiming DB is too good for the OB16s is less outrageous to me than you claiming your girl destroying AD at 8. I'm not smart enough to know how DB would do at the OB, but I would bet money if your girl played AD today.

[BSPE84]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

BSPE84 you have known DB a long time , you have seen him in person many times , you understand our goals ,would you play him in the 16's at this time.

Maybe you could shed some light on the subject for TCF since you have seen and know DB in person.

Brad, your boy is no question very talented, and me thinks your way is just as good as any. If you are firmly committed to continue the journey, then I don't see how one tournament will make or break the deal, especially if he will be aging up in a few months.

I talked to your boy at length a couple of months ago, and I am now convinced that this is HIS deal. And I pleasanly learned that HE does have a plausible plan B for the future that has nothing to do with becoming and engineer or marine biologist.

The odds are still obviously not in your favor or anyone else on the Socal junior circuit right now. Best of luck to you guys.

[ClarkC]

Originally Posted by ga tennis

Brad you are in a tough situation here. If Deit wins the Orange bowl people will say it means nothing he played juniors.

Nonsense. If Deiton won the Orange Bowl, everyone would be impressed. TCF has said 100 times that winning the Orange Bowl, among other things, is exactly what the top pros did at this age.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by ClarkC

Nonsense. If Deiton won the Orange Bowl, everyone would be impressed. TCF has said 100 times that winning the Orange Bowl, among other things, is exactly what the top pros did at this age.

ClarkC how long have you been on here ? GA is correct but I would agree with everyone else winning the Orange Bowl 16 or 18's is not that impressive to myself its a junior tournament on a tennis court that messures the same as other court we have "competed" on , It wont make any difference on a pro career !

[TCF]

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[t135]

Good grief. What is up with the 'my kid is better than yours' constant bickering. You guys need to grow up, seriously.

On the other hand, I really like Wayne Bryan's commentary. Seems to be a lot of good ideas there. I liked the system back in the late 80's and early 90's too.

[justinmadison]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

In my view, and I am repeating myself, tennis is not getting the elite athletes...... None of the kids had anywhere near the athletic talent of the skill players on the football team, which is not a very good team. .

Until the money improves in Tennis the best athletes in the US will continue to play other sports. The Dallas Cowboys pay more in salary to their players then all ATP tennis tournaments combined.

Originally Posted by justinmadison

ATP prize money for 2009 – total combined prize money worldwide doubles and singles
#100 Rajeev Ram $301k
#200 Vincent Spadea $209k Played 29 tournaments 12 – 29 record Weirdly made most of his money losing first round in the bigger tournaments … ranking went down all year
#300 Joachim Johansson $96k
#400 Yuichi Sugita $52k Played 26 tournaments 39 - 24 record. Won two futures for $1,300 each Traveled all over the world kicked major butt, and broke even
#500 Walter Trusendi $32k Played 23 tournaments 39 – 22 Won one future for $1950, lots of simis for $500 each

Basketball salaries 2009 US Only
#100 Marko Jaric $7,100,000
#200 Randy Foye $3,575,761
#300 Hamed Haddadi $1,620,000
#400 Stephen Graham $825,497

Baseball salaries 2008 US only
#100 Brett Myers $8,583,333
#200 Alex Gonzalez $4,700,000
#300 Doug Brocalil $2,500,000
#400 Andrew Brackman $1,184,788


Why do we continue to wonder about the state of US professional tennis? The best athletes are going to go to the top paying sports, that’s just how life works

[TCF]

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[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

In my view, and I am repeating myself, tennis is not getting the elite athletes.

Tennis is not getting the best athletes in terms of speed and strength, but you don't know that any of these football players and basketball players would be better tennis players than the ones we have. There is a lot more to tennis than speed and strength. Roger Federer is nowhere near the athlete in "athleticism" as Michael Jordan, but that doesn't mean that if Michael Jordan was trained for years that he would be as good as Federer (he wasn't that great at hitting a baseball). Nowadays many kids have spent as much time specializing in their sports as junior tennis players have.

Tennis is almost unique in that to be at the top you need the movement of soccer or basketball, the hand-eye coordination of a top golfer, the endurance of a long distance runner, and the mental mindset to play a one-on-one sport versus a team sport.



If the athleticism of players of other sports would overwhelm tennis players, Charles Barkley would be one of the world's great golfers.

[BSPE84]

Originally Posted by TCF

Post makes no sense and is simply untrue. Nobody said a word about the goals, we said to stop predicting you know how to make a champion and others do not....when you have never produced a champion. And we said with his results a few years of college could not hurt.

You seem to be another Kool aide drinker. There is no such thing as a "12s national champion" despite what designation a tournament puts on itself to get people to pay the fees. Girls 12s stink. Its like having a bowling champion for 6 year olds, who cares.

By the 18s in the Orange Bowl things are real. The top 3-4 guys at the OB 18s are scary talents and DB does not have a prayer of beating them. Nor does he have a prayer of winning the OB 16s either. Brad is ducking like usual, playing older guys to hide behind that excuse.

You have no clue about how good my 8 year old is, some Russian 9 year old is, if AB is the 5th best 12 in the world or the 115th best. You simply regurgitate the party line like a robot....she must be good because she gathered some worthless 12s USTA points.

She is not even close to the level of my kid. They train and play entirely different levels of tennis. AB's service games would be over in 2 strokes, my kid would devour that pathetic first serve....and second serves would be a slaughter. AB would not get a chance at one single rally in her service games. My kid's spin serve and placement would lead to a pop up or shot into the net. AB has no hope in the world of winning a game from my kid. Nor would she have a chance of beating a younger girl I saw last summer over in Naples. There are girls aged 8-10, in the US, and around the world, better than AB. Simple as that.

Now back to your safe little world where points and rankings in girls 12s have any meaning at all. Its a sad little place and part of the reason American tennis stinks. Tennis parents are trapped in a bubble and have no clue how good kids actually are outside the USTA points tread mill bubble.

TCF, I've taken my boy to his fair share of nationals in the last six years, and he also practiced regularly with similar girls while he was at Carson. So no, I didn't express my opinion because I drank anybody's KA. But guess what, I agree with you: USTA Girls 12 is crappy tennis. But guess what again - any of the top 12s USTA, even with some of their extreme grips and bad serves (doesn't have to be AD), can and will destroy any 8 year old including your daughter. If you disagree, then I respectfully suggest you play your girl in a little L3 close to you then let us know how she does... and if you are going to put up a reason why that is not possible, it would then also be classy for you to stop banging on Brad for "ducking" in the meantime. Fair enough?

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by BSPE84

TCF, I've taken my boy to his fair share of nationals in the last six years, and he also practiced regularly with similar girls while he was at Carson. So no, I didn't express my opinion because I drank anybody's KA. But guess what, I agree with you: USTA Girls 12 is crappy tennis. But guess what again - any of the top 12s USTA, even with some of their extreme grips and bad serves (doesn't have to be AD), can and will destroy any 8 year old including your daughter. If you disagree, then I respectfully suggest you play your girl in a little L3 close to you then let us know how she does... and if you are going to put up a reason why that is not possible, it would then also be classy for you to stop banging on Brad for "ducking" in the meantime. Fair enough?

The 12's matter big time to TCF I will prove it , who did DB lose to at Eddie Hurr and who continued to bring it up over and over ? yes TCF ,he used it to say DB couldn't beat a kid his age so he was going to a D2 school !

Now that DB has whatever school he wants at 16 TCF knows he has failed big time on predicting the future on DB and is in fear of DB doing it again , which he will!

TCF my daughter at 7 would have smoked your girl and I will put up video of her competing at that age ,Why dont you put of video of your girl and will let the TW board decide who they would put their money on what do you think ? what does the board think ?

If TCF doesnt take the challenge we can all just sit back and have a good friendly laugh at TCF's backbone and small christmas ornaments ,I will start now HAHAHAHA "what is that down there" HAHAHA,, Its all good TCF

[Tennishacker]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

Tennis is not getting the best athletes in terms of speed and strength, but you don't know that any of these football players and basketball players would be better tennis players than the ones we have. There is a lot more to tennis than speed and strength. Roger Federer is nowhere near the athlete in "athleticism" as Michael Jordan, but that doesn't mean that if Michael Jordan was trained for years that he would be as good as Federer (he wasn't that great at hitting a baseball). Nowadays many kids have spent as much time specializing in their sports as junior tennis players have.

Tennis is almost unique in that to be at the top you need the movement of soccer or basketball, the hand-eye coordination of a top golfer, the endurance of a long distance runner, and the mental mindset to play a one-on-one sport versus a team sport.

If the athleticism of players of other sports would overwhelm tennis players, Charles Barkley would be one of the world's great golfers.

I agree 100%

It's been a common excuse that people "insiders" use for not having any Americans at the top of professional tennis.

Tennis is a unique sport that requires more than just speed and strength.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by Tennishacker

I agree 100%

It's been a common excuse that people "insiders" use for not having any Americans at the top of professional tennis.

Tennis is a unique sport that requires more than just speed and strength.

kobe and Lebron would fail at this sport big time..

[justinmadison]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

kobe and Lebron would fail at this sport big time..

It’s so true. Obviously athletic abilities optimal for basketball, football, soccer, or baseball are completely different from what you would need for tennis. There is no impact on US tennis for all of these athletics picking other sports before tennis.

[Alohajrtennis]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

It’s so true. Obviously athletic abilities optimal for basketball, football, soccer, or baseball are completely different from what you would need for tennis. There is no impact on US tennis for all of these athletics picking other sports before tennis.

I think there is some truth to this theory, but not in the most obvious way. Yes, the Kobes and Lebrons would not make good tennis player. Neither would most professional football players and basketball players. Thing is most of these sports to make it in the pros you have to have exceptional ability at just one or two different things. For instance, in baseball, if you can throw the ball you can be a pitcher even if you cannot run and your eye-had isn't worth ****, and if you can hit the ball but can't run we can stash you at catcher or first base. So, many of the players maybe in the top 99.999% of a particular ability, but not so much on other areas. Andy Roddick kicked Drew Brees *** in tennis when they were kids, and Brees admits he just didn't have the skills for tennis.

In Tennis, you really need to be in top 95% in eye-hand, foot-work, aerobic, throwing, etc.

I think where tennis loses potential athletes is players who are not really good enough for those other sports - they are not 99,999% or have the right size - maybe they're 5'10 and focus on basketball. Never play past high school. Maybe they were 6'0 and was an option QB in college, but at the end of the day, did not have an NFL arm, and like 90% of quarterbacks, didn't get drafted. Maybe both these guys they were better suited to tennis. So, it's not that tennis loses athletes to players who make it professionally it in other sports, they lose athletes to players who choose other sports and don't make it in the pros, but might have had better potential as tennis players.