Armstrong drops fight against doping charges - Page 25

r2473 · 10-12-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrischris

Well , that is precisely the whole point of it all. To show what a low its been at and by showing and admitting that , then be able to move on.
Strong signal. Very strong.

OK, but finding the 3 riders that weren't doping in the 2002 Tour AND getting everyone to agree that these 3 guys were for sure not doping and everyone else was doping might take until 2077 to clear up (and of course, everyone involved will be dead). But, as you say, in 2077 we will be able to send a CLEAR message.

Strong signal. Very strong.

chrischris · 10-12-2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r2473

OK, but finding the 3 riders that weren't doping in the 2002 Tour AND getting everyone to agree that these 3 guys were for sure not doping and everyone else was doping might take until 2077 to clear up (and of course, everyone involved will be dead). But, as you say, in 2077 we will be able to send a CLEAR message.

Strong signal. Very strong.

Then so be it.
This is a way of admitting the disgrace and then getting on with it.

diggler · 10-12-2012, 02:36 PM

For the pro Armstrong people, what would it take for them to believe he was guilty?

I posted this previously, but for inexplicable reasons, this was deleted. Could anyone please explain why this was deleted?

r2473 · 10-12-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diggler

For the pro Armstrong people, what would it take for them to believe he was guilty?

I posted this previously, but for inexplicable reasons, this was deleted. Could anyone please explain why this was deleted?

It was deleted by direct order of Lance.

If you do not cease and desist, you will be deleted next.

You have been warned.

JoelDali · 10-12-2012, 04:51 PM

LiveStrong bracelets last a lifetime.

Mustard · 10-12-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diggler

For the pro Armstrong people, what would it take for them to believe he was guilty?

A failed drug test according to the official rules of cycling. This has never happened in the case of Armstrong. Speaking of which, those who believe that Armstrong is guilty didn't need much convincing, despite the plea bargaining stuff that's gone on. Plea bargaining is basically blackmail and per-verting the course of justice. They believe that not only did Armstrong beat cancer and win 7 Tour de Frances, but that he did it while taking PEDs and avoiding testing positive, whilst also pushing drugs on other cyclists (without being discovered!). It's utterly ridiculous.

Also, people mention the cyclists who have "spoken out" (although not the plea bargaining bit), yet they don't mention those cyclists who've supported Armstrong and said that he never offered them drugs, such as Roger Hammond. How strange that the USADA didn't even ask Hammond's opinion! I wonder why? And if the USADA's case is so strong, why did the federal investigation get dropped due to lack of evidence?

r2473 · 10-12-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

A failed drug test according to the official rules of cycling. This has never happened in the case of Armstrong. Speaking of which, those who believe that Armstrong is guilty didn't need much convincing, despite the plea bargaining stuff that's gone on. Plea bargaining is basically blackmail and per-verting the course of justice. They believe that not only did Armstrong beat cancer and win 7 Tour de Frances, but that he did it while taking PEDs and avoiding testing positive, whilst also pushing drugs on other cyclists (without being discovered!). It's utterly ridiculous.

Also, people mention the cyclists who have "spoken out" (although not the plea bargaining bit), yet they don't mention those cyclists who've supported Armstrong and said that he never offered them drugs, such as Roger Hammond. How strange that the USADA didn't even ask Hammond's opinion! I wonder why? And if the USADA's case is so strong, why did the federal investigation get dropped due to lack of evidence?

This message has been brought to you by Tim Herman.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...20f_video.html

diggler · 10-12-2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard

A failed drug test according to the official rules of cycling. This has never happened in the case of Armstrong. Speaking of which, those who believe that Armstrong is guilty didn't need much convincing, despite the plea bargaining stuff that's gone on. Plea bargaining is basically blackmail and per-verting the course of justice. They believe that not only did Armstrong beat cancer and win 7 Tour de Frances, but that he did it while taking PEDs and avoiding testing positive, whilst also pushing drugs on other cyclists (without being discovered!). It's utterly ridiculous.

Also, people mention the cyclists who have "spoken out" (although not the plea bargaining bit), yet they don't mention those cyclists who've supported Armstrong and said that he never offered them drugs, such as Roger Hammond. How strange that the USADA didn't even ask Hammond's opinion! I wonder why? And if the USADA's case is so strong, why did the federal investigation get dropped due to lack of evidence?

A failed drug test is definitive? Marion Jones never failed a drug test and she fessed up . I have a sneaky suspicion that even if he did fail a drug test, some supporters would still believe he was innocent. e.g. the sample was tampered with, my body produces unusual amounts of XYZ.

drewski711 · 10-12-2012, 08:54 PM

And if the USADA's case is so strong, why did the federal investigation get dropped due to lack of evidence?[/quote]

Why? Why did the feds drop it? Because in an election year, Obama didn't want the federal attorneys going after an American hero. Paul Ryan would have had a field day with that last night in the VP debates. Even now after all this evidence, people are *****ing that USADA is using up tax payer money for something in the distant past (although I haven't seen anything that USADA has gone over budget for this case- Since my tax dollars are already going to them, I'd rather have them work). When Holder found out what was going on, they realized politically it was too charged to pursue. The logical decision was to pass on the info to USADA and let them be the bad guys

diggler · 10-12-2012, 09:26 PM

You can't argue logically in these kinds of things. People want to believe he is innocent. I want him to be innocent. People want Elvis to be alive.

Bartelby · 10-13-2012, 01:36 AM

Armstrong still has the potential support of the UCI to rely on, as he has in the past, so he has not lost anything until they agree.

But if he does lose his victories the races will be declared without any winner.

Jay_The_Nomad · 10-13-2012, 02:55 AM

The real question is whether or not Lance Armstrong's doping (particularly the testosterone) caused him to get testicular cancer.

DUN DUN DUN

vive le beau jeu ! · 10-13-2012, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusion91

From Twitter:

Quote:

@davidschneider: Lance Armstrong isn't even the worst offender in cycling history. Look at this guy. What the hell was he on? http://twitter.com/davidschneider/st...164738/photo/1

nice one !

r2473 · 10-13-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartelby

But if he does lose his victories the races will be declared without any winner.

If this happens, it would answer a question that has plagued TT for years:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ghlight=heycal

adventure · 10-13-2012, 02:36 PM

The Women Who Unraveled the Lance Armstrong Doping Scandal By NEAL
KARLINSKY |

ABC News – Fri, Oct 12, 2012

Behind the riders, the drugs and the secrets there were the women.
And they made choices, too, choices that may have set in motion the unraveling of the greatest doping scandal in the history of sport.

In 2004, Lance Armstrong's most trusted teammate George Hincapie wrote an email to the man who used to be Armstrong's
closest friend on the bike circuit, Frankie Andreu.
It said: "I cannot understand how you can just sit around and let betsy try and take down the whole team."
It was a reference to Andreu's wife, Betsy, who had started doing something no one on the drug-tainted team had apparently ever done before. She started questioning what was going on and even speaking out.

"In the beginning, I was scared," said Betsy Andreu from her home in Dearborn, Mich. "But I thought this is bull and
something has to be done about it. I had to get the truth out."
The U.S. Anti Doping Agency case against disgraced Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong is filled with sworn affidavits, statement after statement by riders admitting their drug use on the bike.
The case includes stories of wives being in on the scandal. Armstrong's ex-wife Kristin is said to have told people they called the blood booster EPO "butter" because they kept it with the butter in their refrigerator.
According to the USADA file: "Later at the World Championships at Valkenberg in the Netherlands the U.S. riders arrived at
their tent near the start of the race to find that Armstrong had asked his wife Kristin to wrap cortisone tablets in tin foil for him and his teammates. Kristin obliged. ... One of the riders remarked 'Lance's wife is rolling joints.'"
The Andreus had been close friends with the Armstrongs, often dining together and socializing between races. They were neighbors in Europe and spent huge amounts of time together.
Betsy Andreu grew uncomfortable as she started to hear more and more talk of drug use and says she asked Kristin Armstrong about it.

"It's a necessary evil," Armstrong's then wife said according to the case file.
But while some chose to look the other way, Armstrong's former assistant Emma O'Reilly, was bothered by her conscience too, despite having respect for what Armstrong could do as an athlete and a leader.
O'Reilly faced enormous backlash and threats when she first broke her silence to a journalist from the Sunday Times in 2003, recounting stories of purchasing makeup to cover up a bruise from injections on Armstrong and occasions where she believed she was being asked to be a drug courier for the team.

Her sworn affidavit to the USADA includes detailed anecdotes, including this one: "Lance gave me a small package wrapped in plastic. He explained that the package contained some things that he was uneasy traveling with and had not wanted to throw away at the team hotel. He then asked me if I would be willing to dispose of it for him on the way to my next destination. From Lance's explanation and the shape and feel of the package I assumed that the package contained syringes."

O'Reilly has said she never wanted to bring down Armstrong, but was bothered by what was going on and simply didn't want to lie about it.
As a result she says Armstrong sued her and, in her words, "terrorized" her.

The Women Who Put the Brakes on Lance Armstrong
But it was Betsy Andreu who never stopped pressing. When she and Frankie were closest with Armstrong and visiting him during his cancer treatment, she says Armstrong told a doctor in their presence about a number of performance enhancing drugs he'd been using.

She was enraged -- mainly at her then fiance Frankie -- and vowed not to marry him if he didn't promise that he wouldn't use drugs.
She was afraid of possible side effects and health problems with the man she planned to have children with. But she says she didn't go public with the information, telling it instead under oath after being subpoenaed to testify in a civil case Armstrong was embroiled in.

Betsy Andreu says that truth telling -- along with the pressure she put on Frankie to stop doping (he had admitted to using EPO while racing) -- cost them dearly. She says Frankie's future in cycling was permanently damaged by the couple's steadfast determination to go up against the sport's code of silence, as foreshadowed in this email from Lance Armstrong to Frankie Andreu years earlier, now included in the USADA case file. "By helping to bring me down is not going to help y'alls situation at all. There is a direct link to all of our success here and I suggest you remind her of that."
"It would have been nice to have company," Betsy Andreu now says. "It boggles my mind that women were OK with their husbands putting this crap in their bodies. We could have made a lot more money, but it just wasn't worth it. And I know I've never cheated anybody out of anything. I know I've always told the truth."

http://news.yahoo.com/women-unravele...opstories.html Page 2 of 2

adventure · 10-13-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diggler

For the pro Armstrong people, what would it take for them to believe he was guilty?

I posted this previously, but for inexplicable reasons, this was deleted. Could anyone please explain why this was deleted?

Lance has already admitted to doping. The fact that these idiots still believe he didn't shows you how deluded they really are.

diggler · 10-13-2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adventure

Lance has already admitted to doping. The fact that these idiots still believe he didn't shows you how deluded they really are.

When did he admit to doping? I must have missed that one.

Bartelby · 10-13-2012, 03:46 PM

Armstrong has certainly stopped denying that he took drugs.

Bartelby · 10-13-2012, 03:55 PM

This is not a denial, but a purposeful evasion:

"Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.

adventure · 10-13-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diggler

When did he admit to doping? I must have missed that one.

He no longer denies doping; he now states that he "gained no unfair advantage" as a result of doping. Meaning, even though he doped, many others in the peloton did as well.

Meaning, he is not innocent but that others are just as guilty. Therefore, he is no dirtier than the rest of the dopers.

10-12-2012, 04:51 PM	#485
JoelDali Legend Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,018	LiveStrong bracelets last a lifetime. __________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.

10-12-2012, 08:54 PM	#489
drewski711 New User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 56	Why did the feds drop the case And if the USADA's case is so strong, why did the federal investigation get dropped due to lack of evidence?[/quote] Why? Why did the feds drop it? Because in an election year, Obama didn't want the federal attorneys going after an American hero. Paul Ryan would have had a field day with that last night in the VP debates. Even now after all this evidence, people are *****ing that USADA is using up tax payer money for something in the distant past (although I haven't seen anything that USADA has gone over budget for this case- Since my tax dollars are already going to them, I'd rather have them work). When Holder found out what was going on, they realized politically it was too charged to pursue. The logical decision was to pass on the info to USADA and let them be the bad guys

10-13-2012, 01:36 AM	#491
Bartelby Legend Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,635	Armstrong still has the potential support of the UCI to rely on, as he has in the past, so he has not lost anything until they agree. But if he does lose his victories the races will be declared without any winner. __________________ Every government has its secret service branch ... A messy job? Well that's when they usually call on me ... Oh yes, my name is Drake, John Drake.

10-13-2012, 03:46 PM	#498
Bartelby Legend Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,635	Armstrong has certainly stopped denying that he took drugs. __________________ Every government has its secret service branch ... A messy job? Well that's when they usually call on me ... Oh yes, my name is Drake, John Drake.

10-13-2012, 03:55 PM	#499
Bartelby Legend Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,635	This is not a denial, but a purposeful evasion: "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. __________________ Every government has its secret service branch ... A messy job? Well that's when they usually call on me ... Oh yes, my name is Drake, John Drake.