Heavy Topspin is Overrated.

[GoaLaSSo]

Originally Posted by LeeD

How can your serve be ugly if you hit it relaxed, and hit goes good?

Well... I did lose my footing today after hitting a second serve and fell on my butt.

Also, when I get nervous I tend to lose fluidity. Nothing is worse than your mom and grandma chatting near the fence about how "He really can't afford to double fault a third time!"

[vil]

Originally Posted by GoaLaSSo

Well... I did lose my footing today after hitting a second serve and fell on my butt.

Also, when I get nervous I tend to lose fluidity. Nothing is worse than your mom and grandma chatting near the fence about how "He really can't afford to double fault a third time!"

Ha ha, that's a tough audience. On the positive side, it will sharpen your mental strength in the long run.

[corbind]

Originally Posted by GoaLaSSo

Nothing is worse than your mom and grandma chatting near the fence about how "He really can't afford to double fault a third time!"

Yea, that's not easy knowing your family is watching you and the pressure mounts. It's tough enough with no spectators just trying to win.

[5263]

Originally Posted by GoaLaSSo

Ripping a ball does not mean you are muscling the ball. I "rip" the ball best when my arm and shoulder are relaxed and I am able to load up and throw my body through it. The reason why a lot of pros look like they aren't even trying is because they really aren't trying to swing that hard. They are trying to swing with perfect fluidity.

good point and well said!

[LeeD]

A relaxed, fast swing at a ball is not RIPPING the ball.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

A relaxed, fast swing at a ball is not RIPPING the ball.

It absolutely can be your fastest way to swing, even though
you may think you are swinging faster by muscling up and trying harder.

[GoaLaSSo]

Originally Posted by LeeD

A relaxed, fast swing at a ball is not RIPPING the ball.

I think I understand what you mean, but I'm not completely sure. The arm is mostly relaxed, but the rest of the body is doing quite a bit of work.

I'm not a professional coach or anything and I'm not claiming to know these things with 100% certainty. I'm always willing to listen to others' explanations.

[GoaLaSSo]

Originally Posted by corbind

Yea, that's not easy knowing your family is watching you and the pressure mounts. It's tough enough with no spectators just trying to win.

Some of my high school friends that used to be on the same usta and high school tennis teams came to see me play :/ It was disappointing for me and the other guy to hold serve the entire time and for me to get nervous and choke in my last service game.

[LeeD]

"RIPPING" the ball is not a rallyball.
It means that one in 10 pure winner attempt, using all the kinetics AND musclepower you can gather for the stroke.
The player is tense, grimace on his face, he tighten the grip, usually he really jumps hard into the shot, and he's using muscle as well as good form to hit this ball. He cannot RIP every shot, or he'll tire out before the 4th game.
A rallyball IS a fast easy, smooth and relaxed swing. Easy means you can do it all day.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

"RIPPING" the ball is not a rallyball.
It means that one in 10 pure winner attempt, using all the kinetics AND musclepower you can gather for the stroke.
The player is tense, grimace on his face, he tighten the grip, usually he really jumps hard into the shot, and he's using muscle as well as good form to hit this ball. He cannot RIP every shot, or he'll tire out before the 4th game.
A rallyball IS a fast easy, smooth and relaxed swing. Easy means you can do it all day.

Those are your definitions and that is fine. We can choose to rally in a way we
feel is much stronger and better. You should do what you feel is best for you.

[LeeD]

If a fast, smooth swing is your definition of RIP the ball, what definition do you use for when a guy really WHACKS heck out of the ball, like Monfil's 115 forehands?
I choose RIP when Monfills hits 115 mph.
I choose rallyball when his forehand rallyballs go 70 mph with a big loop.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by LeeD

If a fast, smooth swing is your definition of RIP the ball, what definition do you use for when a guy really WHACKS heck out of the ball, like Monfil's 115 forehands?
I choose RIP when Monfills hits 115 mph.
I choose rallyball when his forehand rallyballs go 70 mph with a big loop.

Obviously, everybody understands that a rally ball is different from a ball which is ripped by the player. Don't waste your time trying to convince anyone about such an obvious thing.

[LeeD]

Everybody? Does that include 5263? He seems think otherwise.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Everybody? Does that include 5263? He seems think otherwise.

A rally ball is what you should be hitting when around and just behind the baseline.
If you can rip it 100 or so at times, it is still a rally ball due to where
you are on the court. The speed and spin should vary.
IMO and approach to the game, one of the big myths and
source of UEs is to hit the wrong type shot from the wrong part of the court.
Rally balls come from the rally area of the court for a good player.
Yes, lots of players confuse this as you and suresh have and imo don't play to
their potential with that mindset.
I know you and suresh are stuck on the idea that all strong TS has a big loop and
that will hold you back as long as you are stuck in this mindset.
Suresh won't ever get this Lee, but you have expanded many of your ideas over
the last few years on here. If you can learn to realize that a rally ball has more
to do with your location than the kind of swing, although in general, in the
rally area, you should be able to be consistent. You also have to realize there
are many ways to be consistent. Hitting loopy TS is just one very avg way to do
this.

[LeeD]

Don't you dare accuse me of being able to learn anything through experience, lessons, or otherwise. As everyone said, I'm stuck in my old ways. My head is stuck in the sand. You can't teach old dogs new tricks.
I never RIP any of my rallyballs. I do swing moderately fast with a strong SW grip, but the ball is going relatively slowly, maybe 60 mph, with moderately strong topspin. I swing at my fastest controllable, but replicable speed....for rallyballs.
However, given an opening, while standing 2' behind my baseline, I will haul off and strike a flatter, lower, faster moving ball that I think I RIP, for a forcing shot or winner attempt into the open court. That is not my rallyball swing. The swing might be no faster, but the ball is hit flatter and faster. That is my RIP ball.

[tennisplayer1993]

i think it depends on the player you are going up against. I'm a 4.0-4.5.

When I use my heavy topspin forehand on my brother, it usually helps me setup a hard-hit flat forehand. He's always struggled returning my second serves that usually have high kicks on them. He's a 3.5 (used to be a 4.5 but he's very rusty).

However when i use my heavy topspin forehand against 5.0+ friends, they usually jump on it and go for flat out winners. Tried it against my hefty 6'4'' friend. he was whacking forehands everywhere needless to say I got destroyed.

[LeeD]

In my twisted, out of whack world, a player who hits any kind of rallyball is playing defensive minded tennis. Whether it's a slice, a soft flat shot, or a heavy loopy topspin, it's still defensive tennis.
Offensive tennis is going for a forcing or winner on the very first chance you get, subject to interpretation. When you're going for winners, you RIP the ball, or dropangle it. But you don't hit a defensive rallyball.
I can say this without a grain of salt because I cannot run one step in the last 5 years, and any rally longer than 4 shots means I will not only lose that point, but get sooo tired and winded I'll probably lose the next 3.

[5263]

All this is fine and is what most players do imo, so you and suresh are right on
on that account as well.
But I don't agree or teach this way.

Originally Posted by LeeD

I never RIP any of my rallyballs. I do swing moderately fast with a strong SW grip, but the ball is going relatively slowly, maybe 60 mph, with moderately strong topspin. I swing at my fastest controllable, but replicable speed....for rallyballs.

We train to hit very strong shots as rally balls, but with good net clearance and
very strong TS. When training this way, we find we can take our biggest rips
at the ball and still make them very consistently when we have the right ball
to work with. Sometimes we must be more conservative due to the ball we
receive, but that is not just a hard/soft issue. There is a lot to it of course, but
the big point is some of our biggest cuts at the ball come here and have nothing
to do with openings. Given the length of the court to work with, makes some
logic that you can swing big from here.

Originally Posted by LeeD

However, given an opening, while standing 2' behind my baseline, I will haul off and strike a flatter, lower, faster moving ball that I think I RIP, for a forcing shot or winner attempt into the open court. That is not my rallyball swing. The swing might be no faster, but the ball is hit flatter and faster. That is my RIP ball.

In my training I call this a suck's play. You are clearly behind the baseline and
going for a placement winner. May work at times and mostly against weaker
opponents as you mentioned in another posts that I cheered, but is not high
percentage. Rally area is a must for high % imo and avoid getting sucked into
low % tactics. The big rip I teach is high % and leads to more big rips, UEs and
attackable short balls. The only ideas we have when in rally area.

[LeeD]

Difference here is that I don't play rally ball tennis, really.
I cannot run. I hobble to the ball, making setup really difficult. I need to hit ONE great shot, then reap the benefits of it by going to the open court on the next.
When rallies go over 4shots, I might as well sit down, as I'm going to lose the next 3 points also, being winded, tired, sore, and injecting my opponent with the idea that HIS keeping the ball in play will wear me down and out.
Plus, I started playing in 1974, when you didn't just wait for an opponent's error, you had to CREATE his error with your strong forcing shots.
I don't hope to beat a fellow 4.0 who can run like the wind, hit deep topspin consistent rallyballs, never gets tired, and who favors 30 shot rally's. That is out of my realm of possibilities.
It is also out of the realm of possibilities of most recreational, 4.0 thru 5.5 players.

[vil]

I think you guys are right in your own right. It's just a mix up of expressions. We all know that a rally ball (whatever that means to every individual) is your most consistent shot. That is your chess game shot. When you get an opportunity and you decide to go for check mate, you use more power. That's when you call it, ripping the ball. Some may call it different. Whatever terminology, the effect is the same.