Heavy Topspin is Overrated.

[LeeD]

That correlates with my ideas of tennis strategy and play.

[5263]

Originally Posted by vil

I think you guys are right in your own right. It's just a mix up of expressions. We all know that a rally ball (whatever that means to every individual) is your most consistent shot. That is your chess game shot. When you get an opportunity and you decide to go for check mate, you use more power. That's when you call it, ripping the ball. Some may call it different. Whatever terminology, the effect is the same.

To an extent, I can agree with your idea here, but I think it's a big mistake
to go for things in a winner ball mindset from rally area and also maybe you can
see how our bigger, more aggressive rallyball might help Lee get off the BL area
quicker to where he needs to be!
Sort of a compromise he is not working right now, but might could help him to
shorten his rally exposure, while not giving ground or position easily. Subtle but
key!

[5263]

Originally Posted by tennisplayer1993

However when i use my heavy topspin forehand against 5.0+ friends, they usually jump on it and go for flat out winners. Tried it against my hefty 6'4'' friend. he was whacking forehands everywhere needless to say I got destroyed.

And that is because they are 5.0 and your are 4.0,
Only strategy that matters imo is how you can win the matches you belong in.
Not the easy ones where you are way better...teaches you little.
Not where you are the weak one...teaches you the wrong things.
It's the ones where it is on the line for you to play and execute your plan well.
Those are the matches that matter. The others are to work and practice for
these.

[LeeD]

To me, any ball I get a full prep and swing at from within 3' of the baseline is a forcing/winner attempt with a good enough percentage of succeding, then it's well worth the try. I"m not a little weak rallyer. I'm a strong hitter who can hit at almost any level, IF I get there in time.
That's the catch....gettting there. I often don't, which allows my opponent to hit another ball, then another, then another.
I need to nip that crap off in the bud, hit my first availible ball as hard and deep and well placed as I can, then go for the followup putaway shot.
You rabbits who don't believe in first strike aggressive tennis should play the way YOU think works for you.
I know, if I play timid and weak, I'll lose worst than playing like a lion.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

You rabbits who don't believe in first strike aggressive tennis should play the way YOU think works for you.
I know, if I play timid and weak, I'll lose worst than playing like a lion.

Well of course there is little reason to have a lesson plan for guys like you.
Not likely taking lessons or following the advice anyway.
My training is for in shape aggressive all court players, who aren't afraid to trade
a few from the BL. Most are young and on the way up or playing in college.
You must play within you limits of course, but just your way is not something
that would help most learning players, unless they have similar limitations.

[LeeD]

First sentence I typed was that I'd lose to the young guns.

[GoaLaSSo]

Everyone is bringing valid points. I would say something that can be taken away from this discussion is that western grips allow for stronger rally balls, but weaker "rips" or smashes. Although, I could still be wrong I would think that someone with an eastern forehand could smack a flat shot harder and faster, but it would be lower percentage.

Usually I swing at similar speeds for my rally balls (or slightly offensive balls) as my rips, but my rips are much flatter shots. The rips are more of a line drive with topspin to bring it down, while my rally shots have somewhat of a quick arc up and down. I do hit loopier ones on the extreme defense or when I feel like being mixing it up (or the occasional *cough* mistake *cough*). I don't often tense up and just smack the crap out of it, but that is probably just my style of hitting.

A rally ball can be kind of a hard term to classify. A lot of times rally shots are not exactly even, but are at least close. One player could have a slightly more offensive rally ball

[S&V Specialist]

How 'bout these "rally balls"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPP1R...eature=related

[LeeD]

Moderate effort hitting to each other, without lots of attention to detail, just like a regular hitting session between two 7.0's. No reason to go anywhere beyond 60%, because they'll meet for real someday, or already have, and have nothing to prove in practice.

[5263]

Originally Posted by S&V Specialist

How 'bout these "rally balls"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPP1R...eature=related

Some pretty good rips there imo and only missing the targets they would use
side to side for the most part. I got some players who can get that kind of
bite at times.

[vil]

Originally Posted by 5263

To an extent, I can agree with your idea here, but I think it's a big mistake
to go for things in a winner ball mindset from rally area and also maybe you can
see how our bigger, more aggressive rallyball might help Lee get off the BL area
quicker to where he needs to be!
Sort of a compromise he is not working right now, but might could help him to
shorten his rally exposure, while not giving ground or position easily. Subtle but
key!

I thought we are discussing this in general, 'cos that's what I had in mind. Now, we are getting into the area of tactics. I see what you mean but wouldn't that be "the rally area" where you start creating something? What's wrong with, while in rally area, go for a ripping shot out of the blue, surprising opp, not necessarily placing it for a winner but just to send a message and even get lucky enough to draw a weaker reply or UE.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by 5263

Well of course there is little reason to have a lesson plan for guys like you.
Not likely taking lessons or following the advice anyway.
My training is for in shape aggressive all court players, who aren't afraid to trade
a few from the BL. Most are young and on the way up or playing in college.
You must play within you limits of course, but just your way is not something
that would help most learning players, unless they have similar limitations.

LOL what about the 70 year student who hasn't heard of topspin?

LeeD, you are only going to get insulted like this if you don't agree that a rally ball is the same as ball which was ripped by the player.

It is a waste of time arguing with him. Don't waste your time. I have proved him wrong in every respect in every thread.

[5263]

Originally Posted by vil

I thought we are discussing this in general, 'cos that's what I had in mind. Now, we are getting into the area of tactics. I see what you mean but wouldn't that be "the rally area" where you start creating something? What's wrong with, while in rally area, go for a ripping shot out of the blue, surprising opp, not necessarily placing it for a winner but just to send a message and even get lucky enough to draw a weaker reply or UE.

I'm not sure what you are trying to ask given I'm the advocating for many of
the biggest rips to come from the Rally area. I also like to work them in every
chance I get and when I get a chance to step inside the BL and go for a winner,
it's going to be a nice rip, but not as big as my biggest Rally shots.

[chrischris]

Originally Posted by tennishotdog

it is overrated at the amateur levels up to 5.0. i play with many of these wannabes and topspin junkies types and their topspin are pretty weak. the ball just bounces high but has little pace. they are easier to handle than backspin slices for me. you can break them down pretty easily by just moving them around, hitting on the rise, throw in some slices and short balls, and not give them time to recover and set up.

but topspin at the ATP level is totally different obviously there is a ton of pace mixed in with ridiculous amounts of topspin. so players can still keep the ball inside even with big swings at the ball for crazy passing shots and create insane angles. but guys like nadal use way too much topspin it should be illegal lol

good summary.

[5263]

Originally Posted by sureshs

LOL what about the 70 year student who hasn't heard of topspin?

LeeD, you are only going to get insulted like this if you don't agree that a rally ball is the same as ball which was ripped by the player.

Just in case you still actually pay attention to this guy above Lee, which I doubt,
with his obvious lies so clear in nearly every post like the first sentence above.
I guess he throws out real obvious one like that to let folks know right up front
he is not honest with his posts.

Anyway, That post about the limitations you have expressed about your game was
in no way any insult to you, and I respect very much that you still get out there
and play so well with all the injuries you have had thru the years. I'm not that
different really, except I guess I have some better recovery in areas. Anyway
I doubt anyone other than suresh would twist it up incorrectly line that, and he
does it on purpose for an agenda....and as he proves over and over...he has no
interest in the truth or facts of situation...much like our politicians today.
I'm sorry that he tries to "use you" turn things and make it look like you have
been insulted, to make his ploys at misinfo.

[sureshs]

LeeD, that is the closest to an apology you will ever get.

But you will soon be insulted again, it is just a matter of time.

[5263]

Originally Posted by sureshs

LeeD, that is the closest to an apology you will ever get.

But you will soon be insulted again, it is just a matter of time.

Just shows how much misinfo you spew here, as I'm one of the few who will
admit mistakes and apologize on this forum, and have done it several times.
Much better record here than the "tennis myth" who posts above.

[LeeD]

You guys know I should have hard skin, and a pig head, by now.
But rally balls the same as every other shot? eh, no.
I might get lucky and hit a rally ball for a winner, certainly not intended.
I might get lucky and hit a winner attempt for a winner, but I planned that shot. And, I hit it much harder and flatter, going for the tiny target.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

But rally balls the same as every other shot? eh, no.
I might get lucky and hit a rally ball for a winner, certainly not intended.
I might get lucky and hit a winner attempt for a winner, but I planned that shot. And, I hit it much harder and flatter, going for the tiny target.

Not sure, but you seem to be locked into hitting hard, flat, and to small targets
as though that all goes together as a package.
Maybe not for you, due to mobility issues you have raised, but for most players,
does it not make sense to go with big power AND Spin to a very large target,
where you have some room for error with all that power?
Why would normal players want to hit their biggest power with limiting factors
like going flat and to a slimmer target and increase the chance to miss while
pushing their ability to hit hard?

[LeeD]

I never believed "playing the percentages" is the right ploy for my unique talents. P the P's is for guys who need to win NOW, while I don't, and only need to hit higher level shots, not every time, but enough often for my needs.