Finding my strokes after 20 years. Stroke video inside

Originally Posted by Cheetah

I disagree.

I never said anything about 'turning the whole body and hit it cc'.

Heath has it right imo.
Show me one video of a male pro that is not hitting down the line or inside out, is using ssc, is not using excessive ISR for topspin (ie david ferrer) and does not have a neutral wrist on contact.
I say you can't.

The 'wrist layback' determining shot line is for a different type of fh. (unless you're going dtl or inside out, where the wrist will be laid back a little on i/o and occasionally on dtl but not always, which i've mentioned several times in this thread and is also mentioned by Heath)

Would you agree that the face of the racquet at impact is what dictates the line of shot? If so, then from a neutral wrist position a player would primarily have to swing in the direction of the intended target. And as you most aptly put it, the swing is arching around contact.....in order to swing in an arc, the wrist would have to be laid back, or neutral, or anywhere in between to send the ball to different quadrants.

The newest information (brian Gordon, tennisplayer) suggests that the wrist is not really a part of the whole stretch shortening cycle but is positional in nature... That is, the laid back wrist at the beginning of the swing provides a player with a substantial joint range of motion to postion the racquet at impact congruent to the target line. In fact, he maintains that the muscles controlling the wrist are resisting (to a lesser or greater extent) teh centripetal force created by the rotation of the arm around the shoulder...

So what Im saying is , that if you want to swing in an arc, and create angular speed, BUT want to send the ball out on different quadrants, the position of the wrist (in a kenesthetic sense) is key...

You ought to read his article in tennisplayer..its really good.

[Cheetah]

GregG, here's the lockandroll video again. Have another look if you haven't seen it in a while. You can see all the elements I described above.

Note how the ball is farther away to his right and how he brings the hand down close and then swings out to the right and 'goes out to get the ball'. Notice how long the butt points at the ball.
Also look at his racquet flip back and down and behind the body, the ssc action and his contact made w/ a neutral wrist.
Listen closely to what he says which is basically everything mentioned in this thread.
Also note how he says "the racquet naturally sprints forward', and 'without any effort' and 'powerfully and effortlessly'.

So if you do this right that racquet moves by itself. You'll see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=EMNtq393tvo

[Cheetah]

I've been a member of tennisplayer.net up until a few months ago. I agree it's an awesome site.

I didn't read it but I'm aware of his comments/article on the wrist flexation not being part of ssc. That's fine. He's probably right.

But I don't think he says that contact is made with a laid back wrist because of this does he? Because video evidence suggest otherwise. Unless as I said, going i/o. On cc or up the middle the big guys are contacting with a neutral wrist.

Look at any slow mo fed vid. He makes contact for a cc with a neutral wrist. The difference is he meets the ball a little earlier than he does going up the middle. on up the middle he is also neutral. same with rafa. No laid back wrist.

And heath does say something like 'and you can/might have a little bit of laid back wrist going up the middle but usually it's neutral'. something to that effect he said.

Originally Posted by Cheetah

I've been a member of tennisplayer.net up until a few months ago. I agree it's an awesome site.

I didn't read it but I'm aware of his comments/article on the wrist flexation not being part of ssc. That's fine. He's probably right.

But I don't think he says that contact is made with a laid back wrist because of this does he? Because video evidence suggest otherwise. Unless as I said, going i/o. On cc or up the middle the big guys are contacting with a neutral wrist.

Look at any slow mo fed vid. He makes contact for a cc with a neutral wrist. The difference is he meets the ball a little earlier than he does going up the middle. No laid back wrist.

No Cheetah, you are correct. The wrist tends to be more neutral on outside/crosscourt shots. (makes sense as a player is trying to get the tip in front of the hand) The inside out forehand would be the polar opposite though, and one would tend to see the racquet head lag a little behind teh hand. And of course, everything in the middle.....It's sublte but there..

[Cheetah]

yes it's subtle there. i agree.

bedtime now. 3am here. talk to you later.

Originally Posted by Cheetah

yes i agree.

bedtime now. 3am here. talk to you later.

Sleep well.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Wow that video reminds me how bad my footwork is right now

Hi suresh, I would have, but there was a guy playing in the other court, and I'm sure he wouldn't have appreciated 80 balls hit his way

Originally Posted by Cheetah

he only hits cc or in the middle because he hooks the outside of the ball all the time so i'm guessing it was one of those and not dtl.

cc is not challenging if you make square contact. you just meet the ball earlier.

Cheetah knows why I asked that question. Greg, in your previous post, did you imply that when you tried to go CC, the ball went out too wide? What was your experience?

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

he only hits cc or in the middle because he hooks the outside of the ball all the time so i'm guessing it was one of those and not dtl.

cc is not challenging if you make square contact. you just meet the ball earlier.

What about the 9th photo?

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by sureshs

What about the 9th photo?

Idk but after watching his videos for months now and have only seen maybe 4-5 inside out fh's total in all that time I'd say he was going up the middle.
You can tell from image 7. You can't hit i/o that way. So if it went a little wide it was by mistake or late hit. He wasn't going for it.

[Greg G]

Well give me a little credit I was aiming for, and hitting the ad corner for 3 whole baskets. The wide camera angle makes it look more down the center. But those were soft feeds to me.

Anyway to answer your question suresh, I don't have trouble hitting crosscourt. No I don't hook it wide on a regular basis, just occassionally, when going for too much angle during a match. Cheetah is correct that the problem is the inside out forehand. Or to be precise, the current form of the stroke doesn't allow me to hit a proper inside out forehand.

[LeeD]

and that's exactly why you should play some ad court side doubles....

[Greg G]

LeeD, when I do play doubles, I always choose the ad side. I actually play much better in doubles, probably because it doesn't expose the footwork so much

[LeeD]

And you hit inside out forehands?
Interesting. I"m lame (physical for sure), and need as much footwork in doubles as singles, because the target's are much smaller, and I need to be much more accurate.

[Cheetah]

Those were inside out? or do you mean wide?

[Greg G]

Originally Posted by LeeD

And you hit inside out forehands?
Interesting. I"m lame (physical for sure), and need as much footwork in doubles as singles, because the target's are much smaller, and I need to be much more accurate.

I guess it's like parking the car. I like smaller targets. Give me a wide open parking lot and I get confused on where to go. Drives my wife crazy

Anyway, this is much better answered in video form. Sorry it's blurrier than usual. The attempts at IO forehands are in the 2nd half.

http://youtu.be/uD3wk4PI234

[Greg G]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Those were inside out? or do you mean wide?

Wide middle

[LeeD]

What I see....
You don't turn your shoulders enough for going inside out. You keep them pretty much aligned to the center of the court, but not more. And sometimes, your feet are closed, yet you're going inside out on the forehand.
I think, on your takeback, you should turn the shoulder more to take the racket back for those inside out forehands.

[5263]

Originally Posted by Greg G

I guess it's like parking the car. I like smaller targets. Give me a wide open parking lot and I get confused on where to go. Drives my wife crazy

Anyway, this is much better answered in video form. Sorry it's blurrier than usual. The attempts at IO forehands are in the 2nd half.

http://youtu.be/uD3wk4PI234

I hope that's not you at net backing up more into no-mans land with each shot exchange

Looks to me like you don't get around in good position for a I/O.

[LeeD]

Sometimes, when I play WITH a weak hitting, but consistent partner, I'll back up to behind center of service box to DARE the opponent's to hit to me.
My partner's puff balls that land at the service line are no incentive for me to poach, since I'd have to leave pretty early, exposing my alley. Most players at 4.0 have no problems keeping such sitters well wide of the center tape, and I get bored just standing useless in place.
Also, when the opposinig team is T ing off on my partner's shots, I'll either make a late poach or take 2 steps back and take a nap.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by 5263

I hope that's not you at net backing up more into no-mans land with shot exchange

Looks to me like you don't get around in good position for a I/O.

yea i saw that too. wasn't gona say anything tho