Mixed Doubles Strats?

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by spot

You haven't been fooled by "too much topspin" because you have been playing 3.0 and 3.5 league tennis. Someday after you have been playing longer you will understand that there are some ridiculously effective topspin serves.

Someday you will also face someone who has both a topspin serve and a slice serve. You will then understand that they don't move through the air the same way.

At this point, there's just no getting through to you.

For a topspin to "fool" me, it would have to bounce 6 or 7 ft in the air, which is the height at which the ball would be over my head when im receiving. I'm also in the air when I receive these kinda balls, probably 6 inches to 1 foot off the ground at contact which is drastically different from when I receive a 100+ mph serve where im planted firmly and "pushing" it back.

I think you're a delusional average to below average "4.0" if you think there are none of these serves at the 3.0 and 3.5 level, and that everyone chops sidespin on their serves being normal. There are 3.5's now, past, and present, who will be 4.5's some day. You'd be surprised how good some people are. I dont want to brag about myself, but if you think my skill level matches my current 3.0 (C) NTRP rating, you've got some issues.

There are good varsity high school singles players who play 3.5 and 4.0. Do you think none of those guys serve with topspin?

I'm not suggesting that there are people serving kicks that are bouncing head height at that level, but there are definitely people with topspin serves where the ball noticeably dips into the court. I also take these balls early... so even if one has potential to jump over my head I dont make a habit of returning serves over the height of my shoulder...

[lawrencejin]

Sigh... can we please drop the arguments here? It all began with this:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

She is not a 4.0 if her first serve is going 50 mph.

This claim is equivalent to: for everyone whose first serves are 50 miles/hour or less, his/her level is less than 4.0. This statement is so logically strong that it is easy to prove by contradiction. All we need to show is that there exists someone whose first serves are 50 miles/hour or less AND plays at 4.0 level or higher.

Consider the following thought experiment: Federer plays tennis under a restriction that his serves must be 50 miles/hour or below. Would he still play at 4.0 level or higher (e.g. destroy NTRPolice head-to-head)? Sure. QED.

In case NTRPolice doesn't understand logic, the key point in words is this: don't make claims about other people or players when you have insufficient information and knowledge. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. This may fare well in your social and work life in the future.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by lawrencejin

Sigh... can we please drop the arguments here? It all began with this:



This claim is equivalent to: for everyone whose first serves are 50 miles/hour or less, his/her level is less than 4.0. This statement is so logically strong that it is easy to prove by contradiction. All we need to show is that there exists someone whose first serves are 50 miles/hour or less AND plays at 4.0 level or higher.

Consider the following thought experiment: Federer plays tennis under a restriction that his serves must be 50 miles/hour or below. Would he still play at 4.0 level or higher (e.g. destroy NTRPolice head-to-head)? Sure. QED.

In case NTRPolice doesn't understand logic, the key point in words is this: don't make claims about other people or players when you have insufficient information and knowledge. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. This may fare well in your social and work life in the future.

You're exactly right. If the said person is a "4.0" then I guess that makes what you say true. By this method of reasoning, I should self-rate at 5.0, because then "im a 5.0" because then im apparently a "5.0".

You're failing to take into consideration the big picture. Your method has no bearing on reality.

If you want to give bottom tier players the same weight as a top tier player, that is all you. There is a reason why all of these self proclaimed 4.0's on this forum probably have little to no game.

As I said, a 4.0 women who is playing 8.0 could very well go up against a solid 4.5 guy. You guys seem to think that the 4.0 girl with the 50 mph serve is just going to get a 40 mph slice return of that serve.

As for Roger Federer with a 50 mph first serve? He would be the best 4.0 ever.

Thanks for the life lesson.

[kylebarendrick]

What people are saying is that a 50 mph serve is better than you think it is, in part because you are likely overrating the serves that you do see.

Be careful with the comments about "self proclaimed 4.0s" and "little to no game". You may be the best 3.0 that ever played the game (and that isn't sarcastic, for all I know you are). But there are plenty of experienced 4.0 players on this board that are solid and know what players at various levels can do.

A 4.0 is a player that beats 3.5s and loses to 4.5s - it really is that simple. There are many types of successful skill sets at each of those levels. It might pay to listen a little bit to people that have actually played for years at a level you haven't reached yet. Even if you have more raw skill, you still might learn something.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by kylebarendrick

What people are saying is that a 50 mph serve is better than you think it is, in part because you are likely overrating the serves that you do see.

Be careful with the comments about "self proclaimed 4.0s" and "little to no game". You may be the best 3.0 that ever played the game (and that isn't sarcastic, for all I know you are). But there are plenty of experienced 4.0 players on this board that are solid and know what players at various levels can do.

A 4.0 is a player that beats 3.5s and loses to 4.5s - it really is that simple. There are many types of successful skill sets at each of those levels. It might pay to listen a little bit to people that have actually played for years at a level you haven't reached yet. Even if you have more raw skill, you still might learn something.

Actually, im just going to agree to disagree since this thread is just getting redic.

[spot]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

I think you're a delusional average to below average "4.0" if you think there are none of these serves at the 3.0 and 3.5 level, and that everyone chops sidespin on their serves being normal. There are 3.5's now, past, and present, who will be 4.5's some day. You'd be surprised how good some people are. I dont want to brag about myself, but if you think my skill level matches my current 3.0 (C) NTRP rating, you've got some issues.

There are good varsity high school singles players who play 3.5 . Do you think none of those guys serve with topspin?

You'd be surprised how good some people are.

There are many 3.0 players who think that higher ranked players just don't remember how good players at that level are. Then they move up to 3.5 and look back and realize how much they used to suck. Then they will start to think that higher ranked people don't realize how good 3.5 players are. Then you move up and you realize how badly you sucked when you thought that. Someday you will get a good laugh at yourself for how good you think that the kick serves of the 3.5 level players you have been facing in league play really are.

I'm sure you have faced players with a topspin serve. When I was a 3.5 player I had a very effective topspin serve. I also know that my serve is dramatically better now that I play 4.0 than it was when I was at 3.5. I know for an absolute fact that the topspin serves you face at the 4.0 level will be better and I know for a fact that there are 4.0 players with topspin serves that you will struggle against. Maybe you haven't faced that serve yet but thats because you have played against so few 4.0 and up players.

Once you actually start playing 4.0 league matches then you will face players with topspin serves that are good enough that they don't need to use a flat serve. You will face players with topspin serves and slice serves and you will see that they most certainly don't move the same way in the air when served out wide on the deuce side. You are simply speaking out of ignorance once again because you haven't even played 4.0 league tennis. Someday after you have more experience you will understand. Its just funny to hear you talk about this stuff since you are just dreaming about what it will be like when you finally become a 4.0 player. You are more delusional than the rest of the 3.0 players dreaming of being a 4.0 but its definitely just a pattern I have seen many times before.

[Cindysphinx]

It is amusing to hear NTRPolice say he isn't fooled by topspin serves and just takes them on the rise.

Professional players are fooled by good topspin serves quite frequently. Maybe NTRPolice needs to give them a few pointers.

As I said, a 4.0 women who is playing 8.0 could very well go up against a solid 4.5 guy. You guys seem to think that the 4.0 girl with the 50 mph serve is just going to get a 40 mph slice return of that serve.

You're just not getting it.

If a 4.0 woman in mixed hits a weak serve to a 4.0 or 4.5 guy, he will try to take advantage of that weak serve. Typically, he will try to crush it for an outright winner.

If he is 4.0, he will make some and miss some. But the reason that woman is 4.0 is probably because *her other strokes and attributes are better than her serve.* Meaning she absorbs pace. Or her movement is good. Or she is just used to having people blast her serve and knows how to handle this.

Her challenge is likely greater with a 4.5 guy, but even 4.5 guys come in many flavors. I have played against 4.5 guys who do not blast weak serves. They drop shot the return or hit a short slice, so a 4.0 woman with wheels and an approach shot (or good S&V) can survive against him.

I just don't know what to do with you, NTRPolice. I mean, I *wish* I had the hands and the ability to absorb pace as some of my slow-serving 4.0 teammates. They do so much better than I do in mixed, despite doing nothing more with their serve than starting the point.

Honestly, if you want to pick the 4.0 woman who is most likely to succeed in 8.0 mixed, go with the slow-serving, pace-absorbing, quick-footed 4.0 woman. She'll surprise you.

[tennis_ocd]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

For a topspin to "fool" me, it would have to bounce 6 or 7 ft in the air, which is the height at which the ball would be over my head when im receiving. I'm also in the air when I receive these kinda balls, probably 6 inches to 1 foot off the ground at contact which is drastically different from when I receive a 100+ mph serve where im planted firmly and "pushing" it back.

Just another 3.0 returning kick serves by jumping a foot off the ground; planting firmly as he returns the 100+ mph firsts. You are too funny. Get some radar gun photos to show us.

[corbind]

Originally Posted by floydcouncil

Your post above sounds as dumb as you look on the court.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB-Sw6DRQpE&feature=plcp

Floyd, although I may disagree with things NTRPolice has said in threads a few threads, I don't think your comment was fair since he has a decent serve (likely better many here on the boards). Now that I've said my peace, "DING, DING, DING"... feud's back on... and I'm reading the intense debate on serving with my bucket of popcorn and tennis tom's 6-pack in hand.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by corbind

Floyd, although I may disagree with things NTRPolice has said in threads a few threads, I don't think your comment was fair since he has a decent serve (likely better many here on the boards). Now that I've said my peace, "DING, DING, DING"... feud's back on... and I'm reading the intense debate on serving with my bucket of popcorn and tennis tom's 6-pack in hand.

Corbind, FYI, my favorite beer is Pyramid Apricot Ale and I've recently tried a gluten free beer which ain't bad either having a bubbly quality to it like champagne. I think it's called Red Bridge something? Although the bridge on the label seems to be on shaky footings so like the gluten free fad who knows if it will be around long--but it is quite nice.

To aid with your calculations on Lindsay Crawford's/Crawford Linsay's drinking habits, I had the pleasure or meeting him once very briefly and would guess he's a moderate drinker. Since you seem to know your way around a slide rule, if you could please calculate your estimate of how many pairs of Thorlos I would need to purchase to last me the rest of my life I would greatly appreciate that. I'm almost into the 65's and hope to be competitive into the 95's, after Alex Swetka successfully petitions USTA to form that new age group category--after that I'm onto croquette. Poor Ken Beer had to play down several age groups (and won) when he was in his nineties to find any competition.

I wish I could follow this thread more carefully with the attention it deserves. It's nice to see someone else knocking themselves out in 80-78 threads. But I'm busy getting my game face on, I very foolishly signed up for a pro/am this weekend, after seeing one of my favorites Rennae Stubbs is playing and will be facing the Bryans amongst others for some hit and giggle--now where did I put my wheelchair?

[jaybear1909]

I feel like I got trolled.

[Maui19]

Originally Posted by jaybear1909

I feel like I got trolled.

Yeah you certainly had your thread derailed, and as one of the participants, I apologize.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by jaybear1909

I haven't really looked at mixed from a competitive viewpoint, but have been playing it a lot more recently and am really enjoying it. I'm playing 4.0 this season with my cousin and was wondering about some decent strategies. I'm a 4.0 Singles/Men's doubles player (3.5 on a bad day, 4.5 on a good one) and my partner is a 3.5-4.0 Singles player. She is very consistent, but lacks power. She's got a really good lob too. I'm about the opposite; I tend to make mistakes, but can force errors with pace.

My main concern is holding her serve. The first one can get up to about 50 mph, but her second serve is just getting the ball in. Really not sure how this will hold up at 4.0. I'm going to try to get her to just hit a high % of first serves, with placement.

For my serve I'm just going to try and mix up the spins to the girl, and try to get a few free points against the guy. I normally hold serve pretty easily unless I just zone out.

What strategies do you 8.0 mixed players utilize?

Also torn about what side to put her on. She's a lefty and I'm a righty, but I love playing ad side. I do much better under pressure and all the pressure points are on that side. Her backhand and forehand are pretty equal, forehand just has more top. Guess we're just going to have to see which side works best for us.

Yah, by now you could have married your cousin. Anything after the first page on a thread is usually just typing practice. Have you played a match yet? Did you get any answers here? How fast is your serve? What was the question?

[jaybear1909]

So, the verdict:

We went 1-4.

First match: Good man, decent girl. She could hold her own at the net if it came right at her. She fed me a ton of net balls first set - we had tons of chances to win it. The guy had good pace and consistency. He'd rally to my cousin the whole match. She was off this match. She claimed to be very nervous (not much play time in mixed) and the guy psychs her out at net. Not a good match, definitely not to our potential. Lost 4-6 1-6.

Second match: Huge fit woman (6'3, literally looked like Serena Williams). Could hit good topspin forehands and a bombing serve (with a kick for second). The man sliced every ball and we were playing on carpet courts. Didn't end well. My partner was less nervous this match, but she didn't know how to handle them both coming in to net. They were fed a lot of high balls and we just couldn't get into it. Lost 1-6, 2-6.

Third match: At this point we decide to switch sides (formerly had been playing me ad, her deuce - with her being lefty). Tremendous difference, she can do so much more with her forehand and now she was hitting it much more often. This team was better than the first we played, the girl was consistent and so was the guy. He had great hands at net. I played decent, my partner was great. We won 7-5, 7-6.

Fourth match: This was the second place in division team (behind the people that we were yet to play). They had been spanking people and I told my partner no pressure, let's just have fun. The guy had a great first serve, but a bad second. He was maybe 40% first serve so we broke him a ton of times. His partner played AA3 women's (I didn't know this at the time). Now I understand why she aced me 3 times (with the help of a dead spot, shh shh). She had the hardest serve of any woman I've ever watched. We took the first set 6-2, my partner and I were both on fire. Second set we let down a little late in the set and lost 4-6. The third was back and forth and I just couldn't stay in it mentally. I started letting the errors fly a little and we lost 3-6. I was happy to have chances against the second best team in the division.

Fifth and final match: These guys had literally killed everyone the whole season. They beat the people that beat Serena (our second match) 6-2, 6-3. So I knew they'd be good. We came out and immediately in warm-up I saw how good the girl was. She was tiny, but she was banging this ball. Flawless backhand (harder than any girl I've played/seen) and great forehand. Didn't miss a single ball for a while. The guy had good topspin and was consistent. We started out terribly. Neither of us could hit the ball well and they were both serving good. We lost 1-6. Second set I decided to get in some rallys and stop making so many mistakes. We had about a ton of good points, and went up 4-1. However, in mixed a lead like that can easily go to waste. We gave back the break and they brought it back to 4-4. I turned it on at this point and never looked back, we took the set 6-4. After this, they were obviously frustrated. We took no break between sets and I just went to serve (regret it now). I lost my serve way too easily and told my partner I should have had a break because I wasn't prepared to serve so quickly. They steamrolled to a 4-0 lead and we decided it was go time. We played well and got a little lucky, and brought it back to 4-4. At this point it was my serve and I held at love. On his serve we went up 30-15 and he threw a double fault. Double match point! I got into the perfect rally (had been winning these rally's all night) with the guy, and eventually he gave me a short ball. I had 3 shots - up the line, down the middle, or cross-court angle. All of which would probably have been enough. I fluked it up and missed just long down the middle. He proceeded to ace my partner and they got out of a double match point game. We were both mentally drained at this point, because it was such a back and forth match, and couldn't hold it out. Lost 1-6, 6-4, 5-7...with 2 match points >.<.

All in all it was a good season. We both agree that if we could replay our first couple matches it would have been a different story. I'm just proud to have hung with a AA woman and 4.0 guy.

[spot]

These guys had literally killed everyone the whole season.

Seems like you should be telling the police and not a message board.

[jaybear1909]

Originally Posted by spot

Seems like you should be telling the police and not a message board.

Hey man, I've already got the NTRPolice on my case about my partner's serve not being fast enough.

[corbind]

Originally Posted by spot

Seems like you should be telling the police and not a message board.

Man I laughed so hard.

Literally = a word that should seldom be used Reminds me how people so commonly say, "I could care less" when the correct saying is, "I couldn't care less."