Wilson H19 and Pro Stock Blade

[Big John]

Hit with the open and closed pattern blades side by side today. I'd put lead from say 8.30 to 10.30 on the open pattern racquets and put silicone in the handles and they went from quite a spinny ball without much on them without lead and silicone to feeling a lot like the h22 funnily enough! Extremely powerful, too much so for me.

The closed pattern with a bit of lead under the bumper and silicone in the handle was much more controllable. That familiar tight pattern control that makes you feel able to take the ball early and slap it flat.. Still plenty of spin on kickers, using Rod Groom's Flex Infinity string definitely helps in that regard. My conclusion is that the flexy throat and stiff head with a stiffer string strung loose is the best way to get spin out a racquet. A more elastic string feels nicer and gives you more pop but hits a flatter ball with less control unless you string tighter, it which case they drop off rapidly and lose some of the lovely elastic feel. I think alu power is a case in point.

I'm not giving up on the open patterns, have copied the lead setup from the tight pattern one and will give them a whirl today against some futures guys, that will be a better test.

Might get to hit those actual Agassi sticks today I mentioned in another thread, that should be fun!

Will report back.

In other news, it seems that I'm not the only one a bit unsure about these H22's. From what I'd read, it seems like the dream pro stock, but it seems they come in all sorts of different flexes and I guess it comes down to personal preference but they can go from being really quite stiff and elbow testing to pt57a like noodle? Anyone else have any experience on this?

Really interested in the 'noodle' H22 and comparing it to the h19, a mate of mine who plays on tour needs some help here to choose a stick and ordering things that might not be right takes up precious time. Would appreciate some help if anyone has any experience here? Email me at jh at geq.com.au if that is preferable, don't really want to say much more about it on here.

[Big John]

Hit with the blacked out and lighter h22. There is a bit of flex but still very much on the stiffer side and punishing on mishits. Great when you flush it though!

Changed the lead positioning on the p25 to 2 lots of say 4 inches at 12. Hey presto! Feels great, nice levels of power and spin. Very promising, lovely flexy feel but still with plenty of pop.

Still waiting on the h19 open patterns, fingers crossed.

Have strung up the AA actual racquet. Think there has been some lead taken out but still 372 strung, balance 32.. Yonex butt cap?

Anyone out there compared h22 and h19? I've read whats been written. Got some flexier h22 xl's coming in tight pattern, just need the h19 tight and open now to complete my search.

[Big John]

Put the P25 on top of a retail blx blade today. Head is clearly bigger on the P25, would say it is a 100 head as opposed to the 98 for the blade..

The P25 flex is actually very similar in feel to the 260.4, almost identical, but I think I'll go with the P25 because it is easier to hit with the bigger head, otherwise an almost identical racquet from a feel perspective.

I've an h19 coming, will compare it with the flexy h22 and report back.

Hit the A.A. racquet, felt great actually. Very solid, feel like you can just block the ball back with interest. Would be a little demanding for more than a hit though I think on a quicker court, felt lovely on the clay though..

[Big John]

H22 XL tight pattern 59 flex feels like a wet noodle! Amazing amount of flex, will take some getting used to for sure. Haven't got the h19 yet, feel that like the pt57a, these will need weight on the head to work well..

[VamosPanda]

So the open pattern pro stock Blade is more powerful than open pattern H22?

Also, can you post pics of this racquets?

[Big John]

The H22 has a fair bit of weight in the head due to the fairly solid beam and squarer profile of the beam. The pro stock blade has a bigger head but the beam is curved towards the edges. Quite a clever design as it takes weight out of it, if it had a beam like the H22 it would be very head heavy but it doesn't.

The H22's come in different flexes. The H22 open pattern racquets I have flex at 64 but have a stiff head and this combined with the 22 mm square beam makes them very powerful. I have other tight pattern h22's that have more flex that are less powerful, but these open pattern ones are cannons but quite hard on the arm.

The pro stock blades that I have are less stiff in the head and have less weight in the beam itself and are I think slightly less powerful than the H22 open patterns. They feel softer and are more forgiving, having a bigger sweetspot than the h22's. My blades are 27.5 though, that gives them more pop than standard obviously. An h22 open pattern XL would be a beast of a stick!

I hit the h19 at 27.5 yesterday. Definitely stiffer in the head than my flexy h22's, serves bigger but hits the ball flatter. Lovely but smaller sweet spot. Will need to experiment more with it but a great serving racquet, a bit like pt57e perhaps but harder to hit?

I'd love to post pictures but not allowed! Any idea when this changes?

[VamosPanda]

Originally Posted by Big John

The H22 has a fair bit of weight in the head due to the fairly solid beam and squarer profile of the beam. The pro stock blade has a bigger head but the beam is curved towards the edges. Quite a clever design as it takes weight out of it, if it had a beam like the H22 it would be very head heavy but it doesn't.

The H22's come in different flexes. The H22 open pattern racquets I have flex at 64 but have a stiff head and this combined with the 22 mm square beam makes them very powerful. I have other tight pattern h22's that have more flex that are less powerful, but these open pattern ones are cannons but quite hard on the arm.

The pro stock blades that I have are less stiff in the head and have less weight in the beam itself and are I think slightly less powerful than the H22 open patterns. They feel softer and are more forgiving, having a bigger sweetspot than the h22's. My blades are 27.5 though, that gives them more pop than standard obviously. An h22 open pattern XL would be a beast of a stick!

I hit the h19 at 27.5 yesterday. Definitely stiffer in the head than my flexy h22's, serves bigger but hits the ball flatter. Lovely but smaller sweet spot. Will need to experiment more with it but a great serving racquet, a bit like pt57e perhaps but harder to hit?

I'd love to post pictures but not allowed! Any idea when this changes?

What is the head size of H22? The pro stock blade? The H19?
Talk tennis never allows to post attachments.
What I do to post pics is upload the images in flickr dot com.
Then use the insert image button here.

[Big John]

The h22 and h19 look like copies of the radical and prestige so 98 head? Chunkier beam on the h22. Pro stock blade is bigger than the retail blade so I'd say 100 head or thereabouts?

[VamosPanda]

Originally Posted by Big John

The h22 and h19 look like copies of the radical and prestige so 98 head? Chunkier beam on the h22. Pro stock blade is bigger than the retail blade so I'd say 100 head or thereabouts?

I see. Could you post this pics of this racquets?
Just wanna see this grail racquets. LOL

[Power Player]

Big John besides head size it sound as if these blades play similar to retail. Same flex, foam in handle... Etc. will the new open pattern blade basically play the same as the molds you have?

[Big John]

I haven't hit or seen other than in pictures the new blade so I wouldn't know. The pro stock blade plays a bit softer in the head than the retail one, I found the retail one a bit harsh and unforgiving personally, but that could have been how it was strung and that it was so much lighter?

What has become very apparent in the past few weeks is that racquets with the same overall RA or flex can flex in different places and play and feel very differently. A racquet with a stiff head and flexy throat can have a very small sweet spot but heaps of spin, where are a racquet with a more overall uniform flex has a bigger sweet spot but less pop?

How one racquet with flex 64 can be an arm buster and another that flexes at 64 feel lovely and soft is I guess the art of laying up and constructing racquets and it is up the individual to try them and find which one works best?

All I can say from my recent experiences is that choosing between the h22 open and closed pattern, pro stock blade in open and closed pattern and h19 closed pattern is very difficult, they are all outstanding racquets in my opinion in different ways but at this stage I'm leaning towards the h19 for the additional pop on serve, tough call though.. It somehow feels more connected on serve, the flexier h22's I sort of feel I have to wait for a bit on serve and I feel I have to hold back a bit on serve where as the h19 I can just throw the ball up and hit it as hard as I like? Bear in mind that these racquets are all 27.5, this wouldn't be helping that. I think the 27.5 makes the h22 feel more flexy due the weight in the beam?

I'm going to flex all of them hopefully on Saturday, very interested in what the h19 will come up with against the others.

On another note, got my Prince RTC yesterday and my h19 is 337 grams strung with an overgrip and a dampener, swing weight 366. Please bear in mind that I'm playing on slow clay..

[Power Player]

Wow yeah it could be the weight. Mine is 329 with a SW of 331. Much lighter, but the feel is sensational. I would not describe it as soft or anything, but the sweetspot feel on contact is fantastic

I did own a tgk prestige and the layup was a little different. Excellent stick, but did not feel hugely different from a similar retail version. Also the retail blade has foam in the handle like yours do..

I wonder what raonic is using..one of your molds..a modded retail...?

[Big John]

I think Raonic would be using the tight pattern pro stock in standard length. I'm calling them P25's. So it looks the same until you put the retail next to it to see that the head on the pro stock is slightly bigger?

[Power Player]

Yes i noticed that...it is rather interesting. I just discovered the regular blade and to be honest the stinking feels like a pro stock stick the way they foamed the handle and just gave it this super solid feeling for being light. The version you have must feel incredible.

[Big John]

It does feel great and the sound it makes when you hit the ball is massive, crunch!

I don't see why you couldn't scrape out some of the foam and put in some silicone in the retail, thats what I did with my open pattern pro stocks and it really helped. Might help soften the retail up a bit? My pro stock open patterns were just too light in the handle, couldn't volley with them at all but now, no problem.

There really is very little between the h22, h19 and open pattern blade, really tough call to be honest. They are all exceptional racquets in my opinion.

[Big John]

Ok, been doing some more hitting. The h19 hits a much bigger ball than my flexy h22's. Serves big! More crisp off the ground too but quite unforgiving on mishits, the ball goes nowhere if you don't flush it.

Have acquired a sore wrist from the h19, got a feeling this is a pretty stiff racquet in the head, thats how it feel anyway. My flexy h22's don't have the same outright pop but are more forgiving and much easier to hit. Having thought about it some more, pretty sure it is the 370 plus swingweight that is causing my sore wrist but that's with a shaved head guard so hard to get these h19's with a head light balance without a heavy static weight perhaps?

Given my recent experiences, leaning towards the h22 xl's..

[Power Player]

big John, have you heard that the new Blade 98 is more rounded? I wonder if it is the same as your prostocks..anyway, food for thought.

[Big John]

Well I hope it is! The pro stock is a great stick. I really hope they bring out the 16 15 in a more player oriented frame too?

[VamosPanda]

Hi Big John
Based on your hitting, does the close pattern H22 also provides a heavy ball? But not as much as the open pattern right? And also, how about in terms of spin as a close pattern racquet?

[Big John]

Yes, still a very heavy ball from closed pattern h22. Lets have a look at this logically. we're essentially looking at a replica of the head radical but it is somehow heavier in the construction, which makes the racquet heavier in the head ie - has a higher swing weight, even without additional lead. This is turn hits a heavier ball and gives the racquet a 'thicker' feeling on impact than the Head equivalent?

This high swing weight and the stiffer layup may be the cause of the arm problems many seem to experience with the H22?

The H22's seem to come in different layups, some are stiffer than others. The H19 has more flex but in the case of the one I have, has an even higher swing weight. It as a result hits an even bigger ball but good luck using it on faster courts without great technique.

I've got some h19's coming with a lower swing weight, going to be very interested to see how those play.

I'm playing on grass today and am going to play with the pro stock blades as they are much lighter swingweights than the h22's. The grass at this time of your I suspect will be a bit dodgy and having a lighter racquet can help when you need to adjust quickly? I'll be using the h22's on clay though, the extra swingweight really helps get the ball up high and through the court when you flatten it out.

It appears that just about any racquet will be more powerful and provide more easy access to spin in an open pattern and this seems to be the case with the h22's. What I have found with my flexier h22's in that the difference in spin and power between the open and the closed isn't that great. I string the closed pattern at 50lbs and the open at 53lbs and the power seems similar at that tension.

My major discovery from all of this is that you can generate heaps of spin from a tight patterned flexible racquet. I had previously thought I needed to go open pattern to hit big kickers, apparently not so..