go-to pattern of play

[NJ1]

Originally Posted by LeeD

If I see you hate slice shots, I'll slice you every time.
.

Isn't that pushing, Lee?

[LeeD]

I play bad 4.0 singles.
I also hit the ball where I want, no matter what the opponent does. He's not running around in circles, so I don't need to look at him.,
I don't care what shot he hit to me because I've played tennis long enough to know I can hit it anywhere I want IF I take care of my end of the broom.

[LeeD]

Pushing can be slice, it can be flat, and it can be topspin. Pushing is hitting the ball back with no intent to force the issue, but every intent to hang in there and wait for opponent's mistakes.
I'd think, if slicing bother's my opponent, then my slices are not pushes, because my INTENT is to win the point ASAP.

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Your similies don't apply when you add the human factor. It only works in your mathbook PC.
A real opponent, seeing you don't go DTL after 3 shots, camps there, daring you to hit DTL and change the path of the incoming ball.
If I see you limping in warmups, I'll be sure to dropshot/lob you.
If I see you hate slice shots, I'll slice you every time.
If I see your first serve heater goes on side only, I'll camp there.
Human's play tennis, not mathematicians.

for the sake of the arguement, i m commited to CC. i will not change directions.

there is another problem. the wider my fh , the more he can step into the court and crank a winner. on the other hand, the wider my fh, the more his dtl fh will be angled into the court.

[LeeD]

There's all sorts of problems.
For some players, when you hit anything into his alley, you are giving him more angle to run YOU.
For other players, when you hit into my alley, I'll stand there, and say, "nice shot".

[StringingIrvine]

I think we are all correct but our contexts are different. IMO everything depends on what level you are.

3.0 hit cross court you win because you have less errors
3.5 hit cross court you win if opponent keeps trying crazy dtl winners or can't hit a shot on the run
4.0 hit cross court to play it safe but you better have another game plan. as its only half of a plan.
4.5 at this point strategy should be dynamic, a solid 4.5 player sees his opponents strategy of A is working, player then forumlates counter strategy B, opponent then has Strategy C to counter players strategy C. I'm not talking about during a rally but it could be a few points till i realize hey this guy keeps running around backhand i'm gonna hit him some short angle backhands, lets see him round around that. He counters by hitting more balls to down middle toward my forehand to take away my short angle shots, etc

[guitarplayer]

Originally Posted by 5263

For starters,

More practice and focus on learning to recognize what is an attackable short ball..
...for the individual player and their skills.
Most don't have any thoughts on this topic and have hardly approached it from
this perspective.
Most seem to think any short ball is attackable, which they are not. Some short balls
are actually very effective attacks or winners themselves, much less could they
be attackable in reply.

Figure how you will attack different attackable mid court or short balls.
Regular practice at the attacks you expect to execute on the various attackable
balls.

Such great stuff.

[LeeD]

I figure, any short board needs to be attacked.
If you don't, you're caught in NML retreiving his shot, you can't go backwards, so you might as well hit an approach and move forwards to one side of the serviceline/center, usually the DTL side on DTL approaches.
Kinda cut your losses there.
If it's a dropshot you're chasing, you need to be aware of the dropper's intent as you run in. If he stays back, you drop angle. If he moves well in, best ploy is a short dump to his weaker side, hoping he digs upwards, so you can step in and put it away. Short dump to his weaker side, a smart player lobs deep CC, so you can't just rush straight in.
Practice conti gripped approaches from both sides and the center.

[dominikk1985]

Originally Posted by pushing_wins

ever do the drill - one person always hit cc, other hits always dtl

the guy hitting dtl is running 2x the distance

given:
hitting in the same direction and trajectory is easier
inside out is more powerful than inside in

question:
changing direction - whats more difficult? off DTL or CC

I think going CC most of the time is a good strategy. my coaches told it to me all the time.

however this is not an absolute. it just means you should hit more CC than DTL shots. hitting CC is no magical strategy, a good player has to do more. at the lower levels hitting CC till you get a short ball and then attack might work but the higher you get the more DTL shots you will hit.

the CC is like a fastball in pitching. it is the bread and butter pitch but you have to change it up often enough.

Even pros hit 60-70% of their shots CC as this is a good option in most cases but the higher you get the more DTL shots you will see (for example fed and novak hit a lot more DTL than average tour players-because they can).

what is bad is hitting DTL without a purpose. if you don't know what to do with the ball probably hit it CC. A DTL should be a forcing shot.

however against a good opponent a simple blueprint like this won't work because he will camp there and use that to his advantage. remember he can also counter angle you if you CC him all the time.

at the lower levels execution is much more important than anything else but as you get higher you need deception. If a good player knows what is coming he will crush it no matter how hard you hit it.

[LeeD]

I'd bet, between two relatively equal level baseliners, they both hit mostly CC, but DTL garner's more than twice the winners than their CC's. Good players cover the obvious.

[Larrysümmers]

my pattern is to hit it where they aint.

[Roforot]

Originally Posted by 5263

<edit>
Most seem to think any short ball is attackable, which they are not. Some short balls
are actually very effective attacks or winners themselves, much less could they
be attackable in reply.

Which short balls shouldn't be attacked? If you don't attack them what do you do w/ the ball?

I'll try to answer my own questions, but I assume you're talking about short severely angled shots and esp. those which have fallen below your knee by the time you reach it.

I usually will either slice it back crosscourt and backup (I'm assuming the guy can't keep hitting these angles) or hit a drop shot and close into the net.

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by Larrysümmers

my pattern is to hit it where they aint.

strategy 101 right here - first job hit it where they aren't!

[5263]

Originally Posted by Roforot

Which short balls shouldn't be attacked? If you don't attack them what do you do w/ the ball?

To answer the first question...any ball that you don't get to in good shape, for a
good contact point on balance. Also any ball short that may come to an area where
you don't have the attack shot to make good things happen. Example- sort of wide to the
Bh side. It could be a high, soft, shorter ball, but if your Bh is not up to putting
on some good pressure thru slice or TS, you are better off not going for a full
attack.

What are non-attack options? I call them safes...like in shooting pool when you
don't have a good option. When you play a safe, you put them where you want
them and give yourself time to recover. for example with the Bh situation above-
you might just loop up a high TS roller to their weaker Bh. This can buy you time
to recover and keep them from counter attacking. Also this is a good time to
use depth if you have that skill to place one. This is also a great time to place one
at their weakness and maybe they won't be as smart as you, and they may attack
even though they don't have that shot...because they think ANY shorter ball
must be attacked,

[LeeD]

Post 28.
When you're inside NML, the point is ready to end. You can end it, or your opponent can end it. I like to think I can control my destiny, so I'll hit the forcing shot.

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

strategy 101 right here - first job hit it where they aren't!

hit it where they arent too early is a bigger mistake

hit it to where they are and dare them to take the risk

[LeeD]

Certainly there is room for hitting behind the opponent, in every one of our thoughts.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

I figure, any short board needs to be attacked.

Sure if mobility is a big issue, but most players are looking to move and stay in
shape.

[LeeD]

I still question your baseline only mentality, and maybe pushing a little too.
If you're reaching forwards into NML and decide to extend the point, you are leaving yourself either backpeddling back to your baseline, OR, you move forwards into net position off a weak rallyball.
Neither is a good option. Speed or lame.
Anyone who backs up after moving to NML, hits a rallyball, is susceptible to DTL at where he was, wide CC to force a backpeddling player to move sideways, or drop shot right where you should have been, since you're backpeddling away from the net.
You're giving him 3 easy options, all 3 of which makes you look awkward and kinda not strategic.
Smart ploy off any short ball. Attack it DTL first option deep, move to service line and splitstep.

[5263]

Originally Posted by LeeD

I still question your baseline only mentality, and maybe pushing a little too.
If you're reaching forwards into NML and decide to extend the point, you are leaving yourself either backpeddling back to your baseline, OR, you move forwards into net position off a weak rallyball.
Neither is a good option. Speed or lame.
Anyone who backs up after moving to NML, hits a rallyball, is susceptible to DTL at where he was, wide CC to force a backpeddling player to move sideways, or drop shot right where you should have been, since you're backpeddling away from the net.
You're giving him 3 easy options, all 3 of which makes you look awkward and kinda not strategic.
Smart ploy off any short ball. Attack it DTL first option deep, move to service line and splitstep.

I'm looking to see if anything above is accurate.
I'm not ever suggesting pushing and no way a BL only mentality...so no.
If I'm extending the point from NML, it is a way better decision than trying
an aggressive attack that is low percentage. If I extend the pt, they have to
do something very good to beat me, but taking a low % attack just gives away
free points with missing......so no.
The idea with a safe is to hit so you are not caught in transition, but even if
you do get caught a bit, it's a better position than NML...so no.
Not giving any easy options, but even if that was so, it beats missing due to
a silly attack attempt missing and it also beats standing in NML, which opens
up just about everything....so no.
If attacking any short ball was the best option, likely at least one pro would do it
and it would make him a star. No pro even attacks every 3rd short ball, much
less every short ball. All pros play "safes" at times, although due to their skills,
they have a strong answer in most situations. Most rec players should be
more picky since they have less skills to call on.

I know some players with limited mobility have to play more in NML to enjoy this
great game and that is fine. It's just not good mainstream advice for the avg player.