Wow is he slower...

[Nathaniel_Near]

Ah, the good old myth which is the 2005 AO semi, one of the most overrated matches of all time.

[Nathaniel_Near]

Originally Posted by zagor

No, you certainly don't, just as it's true that Fed fans don't know how Nadal fans feel in terms of their favourite player's (prolonged) absence from the game because of injuries it's also true that at this point in time Nadal fans still don't know how Fed fans feel regard their favourite player's decline in physical part of the game (despite the Fed hating experts on this forum who claim that Fed's playing as good as ever).

When Nadal has a slamless year and/or gets near 30 while the fans of other players claim he's as good as ever but can't handle the new strong competition, only then will you find out.

Quoted. For. Truth.

[Steve0904]

It's quite evident that he's slower now than he was in this video. I mean who wouldn't be? That's the problem I have with people saying he's playing as good as ever. He might not have lost his talent, but he's certainly lost some footspeed. That's the first thing that declines for a pro tennis player.

[joeri888]

Originally Posted by abmk

maybe in best of 3, but not in best of 5 , it'd be tough for the big hitters to keep it up in a best of 5 .... federer dominated berdych easily upto 2008 ...... barely losing sets on any sort of court ...

So? Fed has declined massively since then. That's what I'm saying. Slow courts have prolonged Fed's time at the top, because his shotmaking can make up for his decline in movement since this video.

[abmk]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel_Near

Ah, the good old myth which is the 2005 AO semi, one of the most overrated matches of all time.

don't quite think so ........ it was/is the best match I've seen ...

The 1980 and 2008 wimbledon finals while by some distance inferior quality-wise, are rated/talked about more .......

[abmk]

Originally Posted by joeri888

So? Fed has declined massively since then. That's what I'm saying. Slow courts have prolonged Fed's time at the top, because his shotmaking can make up for his decline in movement since this video.

the problem with this argument is that while chances of hard hitters taking out the present day fed increase on faster surfaces, they still are more inconsistent than fed/nadal/djoker/murray and will be behind them in the rankings ...

what that would also mean is chances of nadal/djoker/murray getting upset also increase ...... also the chances of federer beating them ....

so, no , slower courts haven't prolonged federer's stay at the top .....

[abmk]

Originally Posted by zagor

Fed was actually 8-1 against Berdych until 2010 but of course we have people now claiming Berdych was always a nightmare match-up for Fed and similar nonsense.

Obviously, Fed couln't possibly be past his prime in 2010, no, his prime has to last 8+ years while fragile as flower Rafa overall had about a year and a change of prime/peak tennis, what a warrior.

but of course .... nadal is undefeated when he wins ...... vamos ...

[Wilander Fan]

Originally Posted by joeri888

If you compare Fed to the field, I think he actually is helped by the slowed courts. He couldn't keep this up nowadays. No way. But against Nadal and Djokovic, it would still help him relatively. He would be a lot more prone to upsets though against Tsonga, Berdych, etc.

I have to disagree. A lot of players have caught up to fed on clay and slow hard courts. On fast hard court and indoor, Fed is still dominating.

[wy2sl0]

From what I saw, I notice Fed still owns fast courts indoors; mostly because he is the first one to go for the winner straight out, or put the opponent in a compromised position - the other top 3 don't do that as often.

I would argue that Federer hasn't remained at the top because of the slower courts, rather he is still at the top because he is just that good.

At the end of the day they are playing a simple game in physics terms. You swing a racquet to hit a ball. A great singer can sing anything, a great tennis player can play anywhere and be great.

[Paullaconte1]

Roger was incredibly slow in Shanghai (but he wasn't fit at al).

Rafa was incredibly faster when he was 18 years old if you compare with his prime.

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel_Near

Ah, the good old myth which is the 2005 AO semi, one of the most overrated matches of all time.

Like that Wimbledon 2008 final where Federer was doing everything in his power to hand the match to Nadal and Nadal still choked, and nearly lost the match despite Federer playing completely subpar?

[Clarky21]

Originally Posted by zagor

No, you certainly don't, just as it's true that Fed fans don't know how Nadal fans feel in terms of their favourite player's (prolonged) absence from the game because of injuries it's also true that at this point in time Nadal fans still don't know how Fed fans feel regard their favourite player's decline in physical part of the game (despite the Fed hating experts on this forum who claim that Fed's playing as good as ever).When Nadal has a slamless year and/or gets near 30 while the fans of other players claim he's as good as ever but can't handle the new strong competition, only then will you find out.

Yes,I do. I have watched Nadal decline in speed and movement over the years just as Fed fans have watched him do the same. Not sure what there is to argue here other than you just liking to be contrary for no reason.


And this coming from you is mighty hilarious. You were preaching about how Nadal never played better all throughout last year when anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could obviously see otherwise. As a matter of fact,your ridiculous trolling of Nadal match threads saying how he was at his peak()was the brunt of several jokes at your expense.

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by Clarky21

Yes,I do. I have watched Nadal decline in speed and movement over the years just as Fed fans have him do the same. Not sure what there is to argue here other than you just liking to be contrary for no reason.

Declines in speed and movement, proceeds to have record year. Classic Nadal decline year.

[Clarky21]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

Declines in speed and movement, proceeds to have record year. Classic Nadal decline year.

Do you think Nadal is as fast or moves as well now as he did just a few years ago? If you say yes then there is no hope for you.

And Fed is still winning slams/masters tournaments at 31,and had a d*mn good year this year. Does that mean he hasn't lost any speed and that his movement is good as ever?

[Steve0904]

Originally Posted by Clarky21

Do you think Nadal is as fast or moves as well now as he did just a few years ago? If you say yes then there is no hope for you.

And Fed is still winning slams/masters tournaments at 31,and had a d*mn good year this year. Does that mean he hasn't lost any speed and that his movement is good as ever?

I understand that you've watched Nadal decline a little bit. He's lost speed as well, and I am glad that Federer stays healthier than Nadal because I don't know what it's like to watch my favourite player be out for 6 months + and miss slams. I think that's what zagor was trying to say. Nadal fans don't truly know how Federer fans feel, just as the opposite is true. They will only truly know when Nadal nears/hits 30 (if he gets that far) and people start saying he should retire after every match he loses, or he has a slamless year, or he gets beaten pretty regularly by players that are 5-6 years younger than him, and fans of those players will say what Nadal and Djokovic fans are saying now.

They will talk about how Nadal can't handle the competition, and they will likely talk about how Nadal won all his slams in a "weak" era because in said era only the top 4 even had a realistic chance to win. They will also probably say that Nadal is just a glorified clay courter, and other disrespectful things even though the man is an all time great with 11 slams. They'll probably dismiss the fact that Nadal is past his prime as well, and just say age is a sad excuse. This should all sound pretty familiar actually. In fact, all of that stuff has been said, but it will get worse when the coming generation starts beating Nadal fairly regularly.

And as I said above, I truly won't know how Nadal fans feel unless Federer is out with an injury for an extended period of time, or misses slam(s).

[90's Clay]

God dang.. Safin may have had the best "top A-game" there ever was. You can't play much better then Roger did there in Australia in 2005 and it still wasn't enough

[rovex]

Safin retired in 2009 he certainly wouldn't be any faster.

[90's Clay]

Unless you are some genetic cyborg like Laver.. Chances are you won't move as well at 31 years of age

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

God dang.. Safin may have had the best "top A-game" there ever was. You can't play much better then Roger did there in Australia in 2005 and it still wasn't enough

You have no shame, but that is alright. I understand that you must cling to anything you can get.

Let's face it, everyone. Nadal is faster than he ever was. Federer is playing ten times better than he did when he was dominating everyone. Both players have improved to such an extent that they wouldn't lose a single game to their old selves in their best statistical seasons.

We could also accept the truth and realize that those two may be the best who have ever lived. No one will win many slams with the two of them playing at their best.

That includes Sampras, 90's clay.

[wy2sl0]

Also want to play devils advocate.

Here is Federer at his best (movement wise) in 2012. Unreal point.

http://youtu.be/SQZAS_PmdW8?t=8m8s

Another:

http://youtu.be/SQZAS_PmdW8?t=11m57s

http://youtu.be/SQZAS_PmdW8?t=14m15s