To use diablo or not?

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by Irvin

Never ever did I say the tension inside the frame would be different depending on whether I did no did not use the diablo. I am going to go on record right now and say it will be the same.

Originally Posted by Irvin

I ran another test of with the weight. Free the weight weighed 10.63 lbs and when wrapped around the diablo 10.56 lbs. This time it was 0.07 lbs less. Now if the friction of the diablo makes a difference why can't the scale detect it?

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by Irvin

I use these:

ah! explains why you can't understand what the diabolo does.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by mad dog1

when you use dental floss to clean your teeth. do you wrap the floss around your fingers? or do you attempt to grip the floss as tightly as you can?

if you wrap the floss around your finger, why do you do it?

bugeyed must be choosing his words or he does not want to admit the truth but you seem to understand where I am going with this. Do you know how a lockout tension works? Or would you like me to tell you?

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by Irvin

bugeyed must be choosing his words or he does not want to admit the truth but you seem to understand where I am going with this. Do you know how a lockout tension works? Or would you like me to tell you?

what's clear is that don't understand how and why the diabolo works. since the diabolo and gripper are both fixed to the tension head which triggers the lockout to lock once the tension head reaches the reference tension. the lockout doesn't care what's holding the tension (the diabolo or the gripper). think of the diabolo as hand 1 and the gripper as hand 2. both are fixed to the tension head. the lockout could care less if hand 1 or hand 2 is holding the 60#s of tension or if both are supporting the 60#s. it's going to lockout when the head reaches 60#s. as the tension head pulls, the string wrapped around the diabolo grips tighter and tighter around the spool meaning that the string gripper doesn't need to clamp as hard on the string to prevent it from slipping.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by mad dog1

So am I. I said there was no difference. If there was a difference why could the scale detect it? You guys said there was.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by mad dog1

what's clear is that don't understand how and why the diabolo works. since the diabolo and gripper are both fixed to the tension head which triggers the lockout to lock once the tension head reaches the reference tension. the lockout doesn't care what's holding the tension (the diabolo or the gripper). think of the diabolo as hand 1 and the gripper as hand 2. both are fixed to the tension head. the lockout could care less if hand 1 or hand 2 is holding the 60#s of tension or if both are supporting the 60#s. it's going to lockout when the head reaches 60#s. as the tension head pulls, the string wrapped around the diabolo grips tighter and tighter around the spool meaning that the string gripper doesn't need to clamp as hard on the string to prevent it from slipping.

Wait a minute. Seems to me like everyone but me is saying the diablo takes stress off the string in the gripper I am saying it does not.

Here is how the diablo works and what it is for. If you wrap the string around the diablo the angle of the string going into the gripper never changes. Whether there is no tension or 70 lbs of tension the angle stays the same. That means the string on the leading edge of the gripper stays in the same place instead of sliding up or down in the gripper and damaging the string. But it make a little more of a difference in a lockout stringer. When using a lockout the gripper assembly pivots on the front bottom edge of the gripper assembly. The string resists the tension from the pulling force and rocks the gripper assembly up. A catch slide over a braking pin and locks out the tensioner. if you do not wrap the string around the diablo the string will actually be above the diablo (on my machine) increasing the angle going into the gripper. But more importantly the string is pulling the gripper assembly up from a greater radius and you will have less tension because it takes less force to lock it out.

EDIT: If the diablo removes any force from the string pulling on the gripper assembly (assume 50%) it would result in the tension in the racket being doubled because it would take two time the force to lift the gripper assembly required for lockout.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by mad dog1

As a matter of fact this is what i said|

Originally Posted by Irvin

There are diablos and diabolos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabolo

If the tension on both sides of the diablo / diabolo weren't the same the string would spin around the 'device.'

Meaning that if I want 60 lbs of tension being pulled on the string I will have to have 60 lbs of force applied to the gripper assuming i am not using some leverage.

[bugeyed]

Originally Posted by Irvin

Well thanks for responding I thought you were afraid to speak up. So if I use my lockout stringer and pull 60 lbs of tension with the diablo I should be able to put a scale inside the frame a take a reading of how much tension is being applied to the string. Correct?

Be very careful in choosing your words I am going to trap you and prove you are wrong along with everyone else.

Of course the tension inside the frame will be the same. You keep making reference to the racquet side of the diabolo. We are talking about the gripper side of the diabolo. Aren't we? As far as "being afraid to speak up", I have spoken up way too many times. I don't know what game you are playing or what you intend to gain. If I don't respond, it's because I have better things to do than to keep restating the obvious & thinking you will even consider anyone else's position. BTW It's probably time for you to gracefully exit, as your arrogance is starting to show. You have made many great contributions to this forum, but lately it seems that you have chosen to be a jerk!
Cheers,
kev

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by bugeyed

Of course the tension inside the frame will be the same. You keep making reference to the racquet side of the diabolo. We are talking about the gripper side of the diabolo. Aren't we? As far as "being afraid to speak up", I have spoken up way too many times. I don't know what game you are playing or what you intend to gain. If I don't respond, it's because I have better things to do than to keep restating the obvious & thinking you will even consider anyone else's position. BTW It's probably time for you to gracefully exit, as your arrogance is starting to show. You have made many great contributions to this forum, but lately it seems that you have chosen to be a jerk!
Cheers,
kev

Sorry i was just trying to coax you on I should not have said that. I agree the tension inside the racket will be the same (for all practical purposes.) Now what determines what that tension will be is the force applied by the string to pull the gripper assembly up to lock it. And if that force is the same on the other side of the diablo whether you use the diablo or not how can the diablo possibly have taken any stress off the string in the gripper when it has applied the same force to lift it?

[bugeyed]

My statements regarding lessened tension at the linear gripper are based on the Babolat machines & not lock out machines. On the CP machines, the gripper & diabolo relationship never changes. The "pull" is measured as the whole assembly moves. If Irvin is basing all of his argument on a lock out mechanism, that is a different issue, although his early statement that "I believe I seen a Babolat video that said it relieves the pressure on the gripper. Can't understand that but who am i to argue", would indicate that he was talking about the Babolat configuration as well.

Cheers,
kev

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by bugeyed

My statements regarding lessened tension at the linear gripper are based on the Babolat machines & not lock out machines. On the CP machines, the gripper & diabolo relationship never changes. The "pull" is measured as the whole assembly moves. If Irvin is basing all of his argument on a lock out mechanism, that is a different issue, although his early statement that "I believe I seen a Babolat video that said it relieves the pressure on the gripper. Can't understand that but who am i to argue", would indicate that he was talking about the Babolat configuration as well.

Cheers,
kev

i have no idea what irvin is basing his position on , but the diabolo is attached to the crank mechanism and is fixed so it works the same way on a lockout as it does on electronic machines. the diabolo moves with the lockout tension head as the handle is cranked.

[bugeyed]

Originally Posted by mad dog1

i have no idea what irvin is basing his position on , but the diabolo is attached to the crank mechanism and is fixed so it works the same way on a lockout as it does on electronic machines. the diabolo moves with the lockout tension head as the handle is cranked.

True, been a while since I used a lock out & I see that the diabolo is firmly attached to the gripper assembly, so they operate as a unit. I believe Irvin mentioned that, on his lock out machine, the gripper pivoted to trip the lock independently of the diablo. I think that's what he said. In that case, the gripper would need to see the full tension to trip the mechanism. I don't know of a machine that works like that though.

Edit: Yep, Irvin said, "The diablo on Gamma is fixed it can not move only the gripper rocks to lockout." There is the disconnect! I think. I'm so tired of this now!!!

Cheers,
kev

[Irvin]

I was talking about the Babolat configuration. I makes not difference if you have an electronic or lockout the diablo can not and does not lessen the stress on the string in the gripper. If you take a Babolat machine and run the string straight through the gripper and not around the diablo it will not make a difference.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by mad dog1

i have no idea what irvin is basing his position on , but the diabolo is attached to the crank mechanism and is fixed so it works the same way on a lockout as it does on electronic machines. the diabolo moves with the lockout tension head as the handle is cranked.

By golly I think you are right on there.

EDIT: And that is the whole point of my argument that it works the same on an electronic (like a Babolat) as it does on a lockout (like my Gamma 6004.) It is just easier tonshow how the force on a lockout gripper has to be the same whether you go throu the diabloor not.

[Roger Wawrinka]

^ This may sound like a stupid question but can you get a diablo to fit a neos 1500?

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by Roger Wawrinka

^ This may sound like a stupid question but can you get a diablo to fit a neos 1500?

Probably but it will not take any stress of the gripper.

[bugeyed]

Originally Posted by Irvin

Probably but it will not take any stress of the gripper.

Yes it will! Lessens the crushing of delicate strings. Or has this been covered before? It's like Deja vu all over again!
P.S. I gotta go to the store, so good luck all! Hope you can figure it all out.
Cheers,
kev

[tbuggle]

The diablo, er diabolo, on my 6004 does NOT move with the pivoting gripper mechanism, it is fixed to the tension head which does NOT rock/lock with lockout. Not sure what we are arguing here, just noting a fact.

As such, the gripper must place the same amount of grip whether the diabolo is used or not. it DOES, however, help out with the string angle going into the gripper. Again, just stating a fact.

I use it unless it is inconvenient, which is only occasionally, like when i start my mains.....even then i COULD use it, just don't........or if i'm short on string at the end of M/X.

Also, tension seems to pull the same, with or without. I have checked out of curiosity, just got the machine and thus a diablO last summer. I had never owned a machine with one (a diabOLO) before, only used them a couple times.

Carry on.

[Irvin]

Thanks tbuggle. But I'm sure if you look real close you will notice the pivot point on the lower front of the gripper is fixed in position to the diablo. That distance never changes. As the whole assembly moves back and forth they move together. The only thing that rocks is the gripper assembly about the pivot.

[uk_skippy]

Other than answer the OP's question I decided not to get involved with the "discussion", until now.

A majority of top end machines have diabolos on them. There must be a reason why they're included. When the Babolat Sensor was released there was wonder why a diabolo wasn't included, and this is part of the reason it was included on the Star 5. At the French Open last year all the stringers were asked what they thought should be on their new machine, and a diabolo was one of the requirements that stringers wanted.

What a diabolo can also help with is the gripping point on the string. If you want to move the gripping point to a different point due it falling on a position where it could be at a critical point i.e. a bend, wrapping the string around the diabolo once or twice will help. Try and do that with a Sensor and it's a harder process to do as you'll have to let the tension head travel a bit before allowing to grip the string.

So, I believe the diabolo reduces the stress on the string, and the companies that make the machines seem to think that the inclusion of it is a good idea. And that is good for me.

Regards

Paul