The TT Football Club

[Ross K]

MASSIVE congratulations to Celtic are called for tonight... LOL - did ppl see Rod Stewart in tears?!... Seriously, such a memorable night for such a historic club. Superb...

[NickC]

Originally Posted by Ross K

MASSIVE congratulations to Celtic are called for tonight... LOL - did ppl see Rod Stewart in tears?!... Seriously, such a memorable night for such a historic club. Superb...

That was huge. HUGE. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

[Feña14]

Funny how Celtic nearly beat Barcelona in the Nou Camp too! Crazy.

Pleased with the win today aswell, only just finished watching as i've been at the O2 all day. Moses popping up with the last kick of the game was a nice touch it was a great game all round, it's going to be a shame to see one of Juventus, Chelsea and Shakhtar not make it through.

[NickC]

Originally Posted by Feña14

Funny how Celtic nearly beat Barcelona in the Nou Camp too! Crazy.

Reminds me of when Rubin Kazan showed up to the Nou Camp, won, and then tied at home to go through. Amazing feat.

[Breaker]

Imagine if Celtic were at full strength with Hooper and the refs actually sent off Barcelona players once in a while when they deserved to be, Barca would have been thrashed.

[Breaker]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Does last night signal the end for Mancini? Should it signal the the end?

TBH, considering his mind-boggling resources, ie the unlimited funds he's had to draw on, and his utter lack of progress in the CL, I'd trade him in for a Guardiola, or a Mourinho, or may be even a Redknapp (okay, joking a bit, but he did equip himself pretty well with Spurs in the CL), or someone of proven CL pedigree.

Whatever, last night was the first I've really seen of City in Europe this season and (understatement) I thought they were highly disappointing.

Dominated the game really apart from the atrocious defending on corners once again and should have had another goal and a penalty. near the end.

Still not really good enough though, Ajax are decent but very beatable as were Napoli last year and no wins from 4 attempts is a huge disappointment.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Breaker

Dominated the game really apart from the atrocious defending on corners once again and should have had another goal and a penalty. near the end.

Still not really good enough though, Ajax are decent but very beatable as were Napoli last year and no wins from 4 attempts is a huge disappointment.

I'm really not sure what's happening with City. Mancini certainly has to take some of the blame, but it seems like the players either don't have the experience, or the right attitude. Chelsea for instance, it was a really tough match today but they knew what they had to do to get a positive result, same as they did last year when it got tough.

I suppose it's hard to get experience as a team at this level quickly, but for whatever reason it's not happening. The fact they keep going out early means their ranking will stay low and the chances of a tough group again next year will be high, that makes it even more difficult.

Originally Posted by NickC

Reminds me of when Rubin Kazan showed up to the Nou Camp, won, and then tied at home to go through. Amazing feat.

True! Barcelona are probably just a bit complacent, which can happen with a very easy group on paper. Man Utd fell into the trap last year, they got an easy group again this year but have done well to keep their focus.

[Breaker]

Originally Posted by Feña14

I'm really not sure what's happening with City. Mancini certainly has to take some of the blame, but it seems like the players either don't have the experience, or the right attitude. Chelsea for instance, it was a really tough match today but they knew what they had to do to get a positive result, same as they did last year when it got tough.

I suppose it's hard to get experience as a team at this level quickly, but for whatever reason it's not happening. The fact they keep going out early means their ranking will stay low and the chances of a tough group again next year will be high, that makes it even more difficult.



True! Barcelona are probably just a bit complacent, which can happen with a very easy group on paper. Man Utd fell into the trap last year, they got an easy group again this year but have done well to keep their focus.

I'm hesitant to bring up the experience issue as neither Napoli's nor Dortmund's squads have any more European experience than ours, in fact player for player we have a lot more with experience (Dzeko, Tevez, Aguero, Silva, Garcia, Balo, Yaya, Clichy, Nasri..) and Mancini has more in Europe than a lot of managers, not to mention we've been competing in at least Europa Leage since 2008 where interestingly enough we made it further in that attempt than our last two tries.

Will be interesting see if he can improve the performances, he probably has one more shot next year and if we underachieve again it's probably over like it was at Inter.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by Breaker

I'm hesitant to bring up the experience issue as neither Napoli's nor Dortmund's squads have any more European experience than ours, in fact player for player we have a lot more with experience (Dzeko, Tevez, Aguero, Silva, Garcia, Balo, Yaya, Clichy, Nasri..) and Mancini has more in Europe than a lot of managers, not to mention we've been competing in at least Europa Leage since 2008 where interestingly enough we made it further in that attempt than our last two tries.

Will be interesting see if he can improve the performances, he probably has one more shot next year and if we underachieve again it's probably over like it was at Inter.

^^^ This!... QFT.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Breaker

I'm hesitant to bring up the experience issue as neither Napoli's nor Dortmund's squads have any more European experience than ours, in fact player for player we have a lot more with experience (Dzeko, Tevez, Aguero, Silva, Garcia, Balo, Yaya, Clichy, Nasri..) and Mancini has more in Europe than a lot of managers, not to mention we've been competing in at least Europa Leage since 2008 where interestingly enough we made it further in that attempt than our last two tries.

Will be interesting see if he can improve the performances, he probably has one more shot next year and if we underachieve again it's probably over like it was at Inter.

You're right, I remember Silva scoring that amazing goal at Stamford Bridge when he was just a kid. Aguero getting those two against us in Spain when people were saying it was an audition for his move, Toure and the things he did with Barcelona etc.. Tevez has played in the final too. It's not asking alot for these players to know what's expected and to spread it through the squad. Mancini will take the majority of the blame, but it's probably a bit unfair to put it all on him, I agree. City have an incredible squad, the players need to take their fair share of responsibility too.

You think Mancini will be there next year then? I've got a feeling Guardiola could well be taking over. It seems like he's pretty much nailed on to go to City or Chelsea, the infrastructure at City is now in place whilst he sounds keen to work with Oscar, Hazard and Mata. I'll be surprised if he isn't managing one of those 2 next year.

[crosscourt]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Does last night signal the end for Mancini? Should it signal the the end?

TBH, considering his mind-boggling resources, ie the unlimited funds he's had to draw on, and his utter lack of progress in the CL, I'd trade him in for a Guardiola, or a Mourinho, or may be even a Redknapp (okay, joking a bit, but he did equip himself pretty well with Spurs in the CL), or someone of proven CL pedigree.

Whatever, last night was the first I've really seen of City in Europe this season and (understatement) I thought they were highly disappointing.

City has a structural problem because its defence is one dimensional. They aren't good enough to defend really successfully at the top European level. Mancini has the same problem that Wenger and Ferguson had when they started out -- how do you create a team that can both win in the Premiership and win in Europe when the demands are so different? It is easy to forget how long it took United and Arsenal to work this out. That said, Mancini's demands for a spending spree won't reassure his owners.

[NickC]

Originally Posted by crosscourt

City has a structural problem because its defence is one dimensional. They aren't good enough to defend really successfully at the top European level. Mancini has the same problem that Wenger and Ferguson had when they started out -- how do you create a team that can both win in the Premiership and win in Europe when the demands are so different? It is easy to forget how long it took United and Arsenal to work this out. That said, Mancini's demands for a spending spree won't reassure his owners.

Originally Posted by Feña14

You're right, I remember Silva scoring that amazing goal at Stamford Bridge when he was just a kid. Aguero getting those two against us in Spain when people were saying it was an audition for his move, Toure and the things he did with Barcelona etc.. Tevez has played in the final too. It's not asking alot for these players to know what's expected and to spread it through the squad. Mancini will take the majority of the blame, but it's probably a bit unfair to put it all on him, I agree. City have an incredible squad, the players need to take their fair share of responsibility too.

You think Mancini will be there next year then? I've got a feeling Guardiola could well be taking over. It seems like he's pretty much nailed on to go to City or Chelsea, the infrastructure at City is now in place whilst he sounds keen to work with Oscar, Hazard and Mata. I'll be surprised if he isn't managing one of those 2 next year.

Pep will go to Chelsea, and Di Matteo will be demoted to second-in-command. Alternatively, Pep could be hired as director of football at Chelsea, which I think would suit him more, especially if he got real work with the youth set-up.

Mancini is as good as done, his tactics are awful.

[Breaker]

Originally Posted by Feña14

You're right, I remember Silva scoring that amazing goal at Stamford Bridge when he was just a kid. Aguero getting those two against us in Spain when people were saying it was an audition for his move, Toure and the things he did with Barcelona etc.. Tevez has played in the final too. It's not asking alot for these players to know what's expected and to spread it through the squad. Mancini will take the majority of the blame, but it's probably a bit unfair to put it all on him, I agree. City have an incredible squad, the players need to take their fair share of responsibility too.

You think Mancini will be there next year then? I've got a feeling Guardiola could well be taking over. It seems like he's pretty much nailed on to go to City or Chelsea, the infrastructure at City is now in place whilst he sounds keen to work with Oscar, Hazard and Mata. I'll be surprised if he isn't managing one of those 2 next year.

If City win the league ahead of Chelsea and United this year with both looking so strong then I think he'll deserve to see out his contract and in that amount of time surely the knockout stages would come, whether or not he can get us challenging the top sides from the Spanish or German leagues is another issue, it's not impossible though.

This run of games coming up with Spurs/Chelsea/Everton/United will see where our league form really is and with good performances in those everything could settle down a bit

[PureAlph4]

3-3 at the Emirates then, giving up the second 2-0 lead in less than a week, and missing a penalty with the last kick of the game.

Steve McManaman referred to it as "a great game between two teams fighting for positions anywhere between 10th and 6th place." Having watched all our games this season, I don't think he's far off the mark, though I would think 6th is more realistic. At the moment, we're a typical team in this bracket, capable of scoring goals, but also plagued by inconsistency and the ability to concede easily.

We have some great quality in the squad (a midfield of Wilshere, Arteta and Cazorla could match up against most) and as ever bright future prospects, but there are too many weak links or unfinished parts. We've downgraded from a 30 goal a season 360 degree striker to a promising target man who needs time (i.e a season or two at another PL team) more than anything. The defending is suicidal, whether Santos is there or not. Mannone is obviously the third choice keeper, but he is personally giving the opposition at least one free goal every single match. I don't know what has happened to Aaron Ramsey over the past year, but he now looks like a Championship player struggling at this level. I think our relative fall from grace is best encapsulated by the fact that resigning Walcott is now viewed by Arsenal fans as a desperate priority, whereas 12 months ago most would have been indifferent or been keen to move him on for a modest fee.

Even so, the second half performance was some of the most positive I've seen from us for a while (there was actually some semblance of a tempo, which has been missing for weeks). I'd much rather we were naive, reckless and have a go, than have no life or passion to the team like in recent weeks. I expect to get beaten next week by Spurs unfortunately, but hopefully after that we can start retrenching with the more winnable fixtures between then and January.

[NickC]

Originally Posted by PureAlph4

3-3 at the Emirates then, giving up the second 2-0 lead in less than a week, and missing a penalty with the last kick of the game.

Steve McManaman referred to it as "a great game between two teams fighting for positions anywhere between 10th and 6th place." Having watched all our games this season, I don't think he's far off the mark, though I would think 6th is more realistic. At the moment, we're a typical team in this bracket, capable of scoring goals, but also plagued by inconsistency and the ability to concede easily.

We have some great quality in the squad (a midfield of Wilshere, Arteta and Cazorla could match up against most) and as ever bright future prospects, but there are too many weak links or unfinished parts. We've downgraded from a 30 goal a season 360 degree striker to a promising target man who needs time (i.e a season or two at another PL team) more than anything. The defending is suicidal, whether Santos is there or not. Mannone is obviously the third choice keeper, but he is personally giving the opposition at least one free goal every single match. I don't know what has happened to Aaron Ramsey over the past year, but he now looks like a Championship player struggling at this level. I think our relative fall from grace is best encapsulated by the fact that resigning Walcott is now viewed by Arsenal fans as a desperate priority, whereas 12 months ago most would have been indifferent or been keen to move him on for a modest fee.

Even so, the second half performance was some of the most positive I've seen from us for a while (there was actually some semblance of a tempo, which has been missing for weeks). I'd much rather we were naive, reckless and have a go, than have no life or passion to the team like in recent weeks. I expect to get beaten next week by Spurs unfortunately, but hopefully after that we can start retrenching with the more winnable fixtures between then and January.

I think Arsenal would do well to go on a spending spree next month. The board needs to force Arsene to swallow his pride for once, and give him 50-60 million to spend. The goal needs to be to finish top 4. Let him bring in defenders, midfielders, attackers, whomever. The board has to realize that this team is severely lacking in some areas and they are in danger of not qualifying for the Champions League. Should Arsene bring in loads of new talent come January, they might qualify.

Because what I saw this morning, would be downright offensive if I was an Arsenal supporter.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by PureAlph4

3-3 at the Emirates then, giving up the second 2-0 lead in less than a week, and missing a penalty with the last kick of the game.

Steve McManaman referred to it as "a great game between two teams fighting for positions anywhere between 10th and 6th place." Having watched all our games this season, I don't think he's far off the mark, though I would think 6th is more realistic. At the moment, we're a typical team in this bracket, capable of scoring goals, but also plagued by inconsistency and the ability to concede easily.

We have some great quality in the squad (a midfield of Wilshere, Arteta and Cazorla could match up against most) and as ever bright future prospects, but there are too many weak links or unfinished parts. We've downgraded from a 30 goal a season 360 degree striker to a promising target man who needs time (i.e a season or two at another PL team) more than anything. The defending is suicidal, whether Santos is there or not. Mannone is obviously the third choice keeper, but he is personally giving the opposition at least one free goal every single match. I don't know what has happened to Aaron Ramsey over the past year, but he now looks like a Championship player struggling at this level. I think our relative fall from grace is best encapsulated by the fact that resigning Walcott is now viewed by Arsenal fans as a desperate priority, whereas 12 months ago most would have been indifferent or been keen to move him on for a modest fee.

Even so, the second half performance was some of the most positive I've seen from us for a while (there was actually some semblance of a tempo, which has been missing for weeks). I'd much rather we were naive, reckless and have a go, than have no life or passion to the team like in recent weeks. I expect to get beaten next week by Spurs unfortunately, but hopefully after that we can start retrenching with the more winnable fixtures between then and January.

Excellent summary of where Arsenal are at presently, Pure.

[PED]

I think Wenger is the problem, not saying he should go but the board makes the cash available to him and he's hard headed enough to want to do it his way.

City and Utd fans should be excited as the Ox should be fully developed in a year or two and we will be happy to sell at around 20 mil

Cazorla needs a rest and poldi is worn out adjusting to the pl as well. Giroud took the longest to get used to the pace but he was strong like bull today. Good reflex save by schwarzer to deny him his third. Loved when Giroud shrugged off Sidwell like he weighed nothing.

Arteta was crap at both ends today but Walcott looked dangerous.

Almost hoping we get fifth or sixth this year as it will force us to do something.

Still think next week is winnable, maybe bale will need some more personal time.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by PED

I think Wenger is the problem, not saying he should go but the board makes the cash available to him and he's hard headed enough to want to do it his way.

City and Utd fans should be excited as the Ox should be fully developed in a year or two and we will be happy to sell at around 20 mil

Cazorla needs a rest and poldi is worn out adjusting to the pl as well. Giroud took the longest to get used to the pace but he was strong like bull today. Good reflex save by schwarzer to deny him his third. Loved when Giroud shrugged off Sidwell like he weighed nothing.

Arteta was crap at both ends today but Walcott looked dangerous.

Almost hoping we get fifth or sixth this year as it will force us to do something.

Still think next week is winnable, maybe bale will need some more personal time.

I've got hardcore gooner mates and family and they've been disillusioned with Wenger and wanting him out for a good few years now.

[Ross K]

Just saw ex-Spurs legend and Dracula look-a-like Berbatov's penalty on MOTD... oooh very nice. BTW, loved the interviewer's post-match cheeky qsn to the funereal Wenger asking if he'd considered buying Dimi in the summer.

[Feña14]

The Fellaini to Chelsea rumours are back again, Lampard could be going in January, if not then in the summer.

I'm not sure if he's the right man, although he's a great player. I never really know where he plays, he seems to be all over the pitch but i'd say he's more of a player who plays just off the striker. I can't see Hazard, Mata or Oscar being dropped in favour of Fellaini if i'm honest.

We could be 2 months away from having only 2 midfielders to choose from, Mikel and Ramires. Surely the £30 Million could be spent on getting numbers in the middle.