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11-13-2012, 01:29 PM
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#1 |
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Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 291
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Ivan Lendl's Career v Roger Feder's Career (NON GS Consistency Only, please)
Good Stuuf! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Le...eer_statistics
Take away Roger's GS wins..for the sake of this post...I'd take Ivan Lendl's career any day, all day over Roger Feder's career, week end and week out..for sheer consitency and dominace. No?  all with inferior equipment, faster surfaces on every surface, and playingmore tournaments than any other, except for Jimmy Connors, and maybe a few others... LOLJust saying, at 31, lendl had 89 tournametn wins, to Roger's 77 wins at 31....so Roger, CAN be another Jimmy Connors, in longevity.... Lendl's severe back and disc problems did him in and out in 1994... These are Tournament WINS ASIDE from his 94 ATP Tournament Wins... LOL Other singles titles - Draw at least 8 players (37)Year Date Tournament Surface Final opponent Final result Winners prize IVAN LENDL WINS vs Opponents....aside from the 94 ATP Wins 1980 Sept 10-14 Sγo Paulo - Brazil Invitational Cup Clay Gene Mayer 6–3, 7–5 1980 Feb 25-27 Genoa - Bitti Bergamo Memorial Carpet Johan Kriek 6–2, 6–2 1981 Aug 26-30 White Plains - AMF Head Cup [1] Hard Ilie Năstase W/O $50,000 1981 Nov 23-29 Milan - Master Brooklyn Chewing Gum [2] Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 2–6, 6–4 $85,000 1982 Feb 4–7 Toronto - Molson Light Challenge [3] Carpet John McEnroe 7–5, 3–6, 7–6, 7–5 1982 Oct 19-24 Melbourne - Mazda Super Challenge [4] Carpet Vitas Gerulaitis 6–2, 6–2, 7–5 $100,000 1982 Nov 30-Dec 5 Antwerp - European Champions' Championship [5] Carpet John McEnroe 3–6, 7–6, 6–3, 6–3 1983 Jan 10-16 Rosemont - Lite Challenge of Champions [6] Carpet Jimmy Connors 4–6, 6–4, 7–5, 6–4 $100,000 1984 Jan 30-Feb 5 Toronto - Molson Light Challenge [7] Carpet Yannick Noah 6–0, 6–2, 6–4 $100,000 1984 Aug 20-26 Jericho - Hamlet Challenge Cup [8] Hard Andrιs Gσmez 6–2, 6–4 1984 Nov 12-18 Antwerp - European Champions' Championship [9] Carpet Anders Jδrryd 6–2, 6–1, 6–2 $200,000 1985 Aug 19-25 Jericho - Executone Hamlet Challenge Cup [10] Hard Jimmy Connors 6–1, 6–3 1985 Oct 28-Nov 3 Antwerp - European Champions' Championship [11] Carpet John McEnroe 1–6, 7–6, 6–2, 6–2 $200,000* 1986 Jan 6-12 Atlanta - AT&T Challenge of Champions [12] Carpet Jimmy Connors 6–2, 6–3 $150,000 1986 Apr 28-May 4 Ede - Audi Championship Clay Stefan Edberg 7–6, 6–3 1986 Aug 19-24 Jericho - Norstar Bank Hamlet Challenge Cup [13] Hard John McEnroe 6–2, 6–4 1987 May 7–10 Ede - Audi Championship Clay Paolo Canθ 7–6, 6–3 1987 Jul 22-26 Stowe - Head Classic[14] Hard Jimmy Arias 6–3, 6–3 1987 Oct 27-Nov 1 Antwerp - European Community Championship [15] Carpet Miloslav Mečνř 5–7, 6–1, 6–4, 6–3 $250,000 1988 Jan 7-10 Gold Coast - Sanctuary Cove Classic Hard Wally Masur 6–7, 7–6, 6–4 1988 April 28-May 1 Atlanta - AT&T Challenge of Champions [16] Clay (Har-Tru) Stefan Edberg 2–6, 6–1, 6–3 $150,000 1989 Dec 28-Jan 1 Newcastle - N.S.W. Invitational Hard Carl-Uwe Steeb 6–3, 7–6 1989 Feb 6-12 Chicago - Volvo Tennis Carpet Brad Gilbert 6–2, 7–6 1989 Aug 21-27 Jericho - Norstar Bank Hamlet Challenge Cup [17] Hard Mikael Pernfors 4–6, 6–2, 6–4 1989 Oct 2–7 Stuttgart - Eurocard Classic[18] Carpet Miloslav Mečνř 6–3, 4–6, 4–6, 6–1, 6–4 1989 Oct 19-22 Essen - Germany Invitational Carpet Miloslav Mečνř 6–4, 6–2 1989 Oct 23-29 Antwerp - European Community Championship [19] Carpet Miloslav Mečνř 6–2, 6–2, 1–6, 6–4 $250,000 1990 Jun 4-10 Beckenham - Kent Grass Court Championships Grass Darren Cahill 6–3, 7–5 1990 Aug 20-26 Forest Hills, New York - WCT Tournament of Champions Hard Aaron Krickstein 6–4, 6–7, 6–3 $100,000 1990 Oct 17-21 Hong Kong - Marlboro Championships [20] Carpet Michael Chang 1–6, 6–2, 6–1, 6–2 $200,000 1991 Jan 2–6 Salamander Bay - Roche Racquet Classic Hard Carl-Uwe Steeb 6–4, 6–2 1991 Jun 3–9 Beckenham - Kent Grass Court Championships Grass Pat Cash 3–6, 7–6, 7–6 1991 Oct 16-20 Hong Kong - Marlboro Championships[21] Carpet David Wheaton 6–3, 7–5, 6–1 $200,000 1992 Jul 27-Aug 2 Boston - U.S. Pro Championships Hard Richey Reneberg 6–3, 6–3 1992 Oct 19-25 Hong Kong - Marlboro Championships Carpet Michael Chang 6–3, 4–6, 6–4, 6–4 $200,000 1993 Jul 13-18 Boston - U.S. Pro Championships Hard Todd Martin 5–7, 6–3, 7–6 1994 Jul 12-17 Boston - U.S. Pro Championships Hard Malivai Washington 7–5, 7–6 1981 Nov 4–5 Calcutta - Indian Classic Cup Hard John Alexander 6–4, 6–2 1981 Nov 7–8 Jakarta - Indonesian Grand Prix Tennis Hard Wojciech Fibak 6–1, 7–6, 9–7 1984 February San Juan - Governors Cup (Porto Rico) - 4-men exhibition ? Gene Mayer 6–3, 6–2 $80,000 1984 Apr 7–8 Tokyo - Suntory Cup [22] Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 3–6, 6–2 $110,000 1985 Apr 20-21 Tokyo - Suntory Cup [23] Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 6–2 $110,000 1985 Oct 8–9 East Rutherford - The Members Only Meadowlands Tennis Challenge[24] Hard John McEnroe 7–5, 6–4 1985 Nov 21-23 Canberra - Rio International Challenge Carpet Tim Mayotte 6–4, 6–4 1987 May 5–6 Barcelona - Royal Polo Club [25] Clay John McEnroe 6–2, 3–6, 6–2 1987 Nov 25-29 West Palm Beach - The Stakes Matches [26] Hard Pat Cash 11–21, 21–18, 21–7, 22–20 $583,200 1988 Jul 21-24 Monterrey - Hartmarx Racquet Club Apparel Tennis Classic Hard Kevin Curren 6–4, 7–6 1989 May 27–28 Marseille - Charity Matches Invitational [27] Clay Andre Agassi 6–3, 6–3 1989 Oct 24-25 Bologna - All Stars Tennis Classic Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 7–5 1990 Nov 10-11 Rome - Big Four Tennis Carpet Stefan Edberg 5–7, 7–6, 7–6 1990 Nov 12 Milan - Muratti Shoot Out Tie-Break Carpet Jonas Svensson 7–5, 5–7, 7–4 1990 Dec 3–5 Bolzano - Ebel Tennis Trophy Carpet Goran Ivanišević 6–2, 7–6 1990 Dec 8–9 Zόrich - Swiss Invitational Tennis Cup Carpet Pete Sampras 3–6, 7–6, 6–4 Now compare with Roger Feder's Career, (NON GS Wins)..... Pretty dominant? No? now you see Roger has a long ways to go... just saying... yes 17 GS is better than Lendl's 8...No question about it. NONE! Today's tennis fans and players have NO comprehension how difficult and FUN tennis was in the 80's PRE-Sampras era... just saying, using Today's players, with advanced technology, SLOWER courts all around...the players of the 80's era, had more challenges, tougher draws and faster surfaces, and smaller racquets to achieve more than most players are achieving still today... What Lendl did in the 80's is utter DOMINANCNE..not only did he win 94 ATP Tirels, but look at all the OTHER TITLES he WON outside of the ATP...is mindboggling.... Jimmy Connors has more overall wins....utter dominance. Connors and Lendl were FREAKS!! Also Connors as he got older and slower got larger and larger racquets to stay in the game to compete with the younger players...so he played longer.... Discuss. Is Roger Feder GOAT, most likey, yes...does Roger have more GS than ANYONE? Absolutely. But is he as consistent as Jimmy Connors or Ivan Lendl were, year end and year out? Utter domiance? ? Nope. Not even close.Last edited by lendlmac : 11-13-2012 at 01:37 PM. |
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11-13-2012, 01:32 PM
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#2 |
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Semi-Pro
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
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eh, roger made more money, i'll take his career.
in fact, roger probably will make more money even after he's retired just on endorsements in the same way MJ still makes decent coin on endorsements even though he hasn't made a bucket in over a decade. |
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11-13-2012, 01:39 PM
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#3 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: san diego, ca
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11-13-2012, 01:52 PM
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#4 | |
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Banned
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Posts: 2,823
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11-13-2012, 02:16 PM
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#5 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,541
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Quote:
Lendl, like Connors and others, racked up tons of titles at tournaments which, by today's standard, would be the equivalent of Federer or Djokovic rushing around the calendar playing 250 level or lower tournaments like Zagreb, Sao Paulo, Houston, Belgrade, Umag, Auckland etc. Those guys often played close to 30 tournaments a year in the late 70s and early 80s, compared to more like 17 nowdays. As an example, Lendl in 1982... won 15 titles out of 25 tournaments played (60% win rate). Exclude the two majors he played (he missed the Aussie Open and Wimbledon) and the average draw size of these tournaments was less than 36 players (35.82) - giving him a 5 match average draw (excluding first round byes which he had 3 of). Federer by contrast in 2006 played 18 tournaments for 12 titles (67% win rate). Exclude the four majors and and his average draw size was 46 (46.2) - i.e. he had to win an extra match per tournament on average to win each title (excluding first round byes of which he had 4) - and, the level of the tournaments was also higher on average too. Over the course of a year that's 12 more matches that Federer had to play... 10% more basically to be rewarded with 3 fewer titles than Lendl. His titles were harder to win - by some margin - and he had fewer of them available to play as well. Now, I chose 1982 because it was was nowhere near Lendl's peak but chose 2006 for Federer because it was. But looking at crude numbers and excluding majors you'd be forgiven for thinking Lendl had a better year - but you're not really comparing apples with apples. Not even close. Let's not let nostalgia blur the fact that guys in the early 80s were able to rack up shitloads of titles in comparatively easy circumstances.
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Original Pro Staff 85, leaded to 370g, hybrid poly/syn gut set-up, 48-52-ish lbs. Last edited by Bobby Jr : 11-13-2012 at 02:24 PM. |
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11-13-2012, 02:19 PM
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#6 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,487
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We're in a stronger era.
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11-13-2012, 02:36 PM
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#7 |
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G.O.A.T.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,613
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If you take away their slam titles, Fed has 237 consecutive weeks at #1, the only player to reach 300+ weeks at #1. Won 6 WTF.
But it's pointless to remove the most important title(slams) and only compare smaller titles. Because you are stripping away many of Roger's records(eg most consecutive win on grass and hardcourt, 24 straigt win in the final...). BTW, remove slam titles, Agassi > Sampras.
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NadalAgassi: I think Serena's final slam tally will be something from 18-27. My best guess is 24 or 25 though; Nole(2010) will never win Wimbledon |
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11-13-2012, 02:39 PM
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#8 | |
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G.O.A.T.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,613
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Quote:
__________________
NadalAgassi: I think Serena's final slam tally will be something from 18-27. My best guess is 24 or 25 though; Nole(2010) will never win Wimbledon |
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11-13-2012, 02:43 PM
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#9 |
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Professional
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,268
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It is impossible to compare Connors era, or Lendl era with Agassi-Sampras era (let alone current era).
Everything was so different back then. That is why in my honest opinion it doesn't make sense to say that Sampras was "better"/"greater" than Lendl or Connors, or that Federer is "better"/"greater" than Lendl or Connors, or that "great player from such era" is/was "better"/"greater" than "great player from such another era". It is impossible to know. |
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11-13-2012, 02:43 PM
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#10 |
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Rookie
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Location: san diego, ca
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don't get all your feathers ruffled..... for the sake of THIS topic only..
You REMOVE Federer's 17 GS titles, leaving him 60 Titles at age 31 You REMOVE Lendl's 8 GS titles, leaving him 81 Titles at age 31 Now, add all the remaining Tourinament Title wins....Roger's is still ongoing...but by age 31, Lendl won nearly 40+ more tournaments by age 31 then Roger has.....(non GS wins)... that is plain scary-freaking solid, consistent and DOMINANT. Lendl dominated the 80's era, more than Roger dominated the 2002-2012 era... just saying... Anyone would trade for Rogers overall career... but remove the GS titles from BOTH players, and EVERYONE would take Lendl's career now over Roger Federer's career...no questions asked.... better opponents, faster surfaces, harer draws, better players..... just saying.... Roger is #1...Lendl was not and wishes he had Federe's career... we all get that. This OP only talks about removing the GS titles from BOTH players, and Lendl is the MORE dominat player of HIS era...then Roger could ever dream of on a week end and week out basis in consistency and sheer DOMINANCE...just the fact. No one feared Federer like they feared Lendl.... they both were feared...but Lendl frightened people and scared them... LOL |
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11-13-2012, 02:47 PM
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#11 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Black Lodge
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What Bobby Jr. said sums this up perfectly....
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11-13-2012, 02:52 PM
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#12 | |
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Banned
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11-13-2012, 02:52 PM
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#13 | |
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11-13-2012, 04:23 PM
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#14 |
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Semi-Pro
Join Date: Jul 2012
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So what's the ratio of non-GS tournaments entered vs. won between the two?
Mustard? |
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11-13-2012, 05:41 PM
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#15 | |
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Hall Of Fame
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Quote:
Last edited by TheFifthSet : 11-13-2012 at 05:44 PM. |
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11-13-2012, 05:44 PM
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#16 | |
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Hall Of Fame
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11-13-2012, 06:48 PM
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#17 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Apr 2011
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This thread, BAHAHAHAHA, take away the important stuff, and then I'd rather have Lendl, great theory. I'd definitely much rather win East Rutherford than Wimbledon, BAHAHAHA.
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11-13-2012, 11:08 PM
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#18 |
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Professional
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,055
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Lendl's record and title collection at many of the biggest non-slam events available to him, across the full range of surfaces, was very impressive:
Masters (5) – 1981, 1982, 1985, 1986 and 1987 WCT Finals (2) – 1982 and 1985 Canada (6) – 1980, 1981, 1983, 1987, 1988 and 1989 Philadelphia (2) – 1986 and 1991 Boca West/Miami (2) – 1986 and 1989 Forest Hills (4) – 1982, 1985, 1989 and 1990 Queen’s (2) – 1989 and 1990 Stockholm (1) – 1989 Cincinnati (1) – 1982 Las Vegas (1) – 1981 Wembley (3) – 1984, 1985 and 1987 Rome (2) – 1986 and 1988 Hamburg (2) – 1987 and 1989 Monte-Carlo (2) – 1985 and 1988 Barcelona (2) – 1980 and 1981 Sydney Indoor (3) – 1985, 1987 and 1989 Tokyo Indoor (3) – 1985, 1985 and 1990 Milan (3) – 1983, 1986 and 1990 Indianapolis (1) – 1985 San Francisco (1) - 1983 Basel (2) – 1980 and 1981 Madrid (1) – 1980 Looking at quality over quantity, I've always rated Lendl's 94 official titles as more impressive Connor's total of 109. That's because Lendl had at least two good quality title wins on every type of surface, outdoor hard, indoor hard, indoor carpet, red clay, green clay and grass, while Connors didn't win any titles on red clay. Also Lendl's total was more well rounded, with a better collection of titles across the bigger tournaments in both Europe and North America, while Connors's title collection is heavily US dominated (he won about 70% of his official titles in his home country). Lendl's achievement of winning 3 titles in 3 consecutive weeks on 3 different surfaces in March/April 1985 was very impressive; Fort Myers on hard courts, Monte-Carlo on red clay and then the WCT Finals in Dallas on carpet. |
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11-13-2012, 11:59 PM
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#19 |
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Connors could play and win into his late 30s because the game was less explosive, physical and dare I say professional then. Federer is doing a great job to be in the top group at 31 but by 33 I would think he'll drop off the pace. It's just too physically demanding now. By the way look at the old footage of Laver waddling around with a decent pot belly at the end of his career and still knocking off big wins. Just would not happen now.
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There is no best. There is just the discussion of who is best. Federer, he will always be in the first part of such a discussion. Rino Tommasi |
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11-14-2012, 12:07 AM
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#20 | |
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Rookie
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Location: san diego, ca
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You fail to understand... When you put these two players careers Outside of Grand Slams....forget the GS even existed.....now the body of work the level of players and the sheer dominance in mens tennis goes to Ivan Lendl.... Lendl s not chasing Federer folks....fact is there still many Ivan Lendl records Roger Federer can never achieve still nor come close to....yet. Lendls career is written....Its done....Federer is chasing history.......but hes still casing connors and ivan lendl.... |
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