Now 4-1 head to head: Stain in Federer´s legacy? - Page 2

sotua · 04-23-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oricus

Well he had a bad run against Nalbandian for a while. It could be the matchup, it could be the surface, or it could be that Nadal really is that good of player.

Nadal is a really good player - though I think that in this case it's (also) the matchup. Nadal's game has everything that makes Federer's game less effective, and in ridiculous quantities. Footspeed that makes most of Federer's inverted FHs still in play instead of outright winners - and with Fed positioned off the court. High bouncing lefty spin to his backhand, which is his weaker wing (*). Unwavering concentration, which can kill Fed since he usually wanders off for a couple of games or so.

And this is Nadal's best surface. All of their meetings happen at grounds that are favorable to Nadal (slow HC or clay) because he just isn't getting through to Federer on his best surfaces (fast HC or grass).

But, in the end, it's all about achievements - nobody cares that Krajicek retired with a 6-4 lead over Sampras, and it was once 6-2. What people remember is that Krajicek won one wimbledon and Sampras won... well, you know

. Nadal is 0-2 against Blake but nobody ever will tell you that Blake is a better player - it's all about matchups. Nadal owns Federer at the moment, but having a 7-slam winner's number isn't a substitute for winning the 7 slams yourself.

(*) This is why I want to see Safin vs Nadal - I want to see what does Nadal do with a guy who just loves high balls to his backhand

vive le beau jeu ! · 04-23-2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotua

This is why I want to see Safin vs Nadal - I want to see what does Nadal do with a guy who just loves high balls to his backhand

i'm curious to see that also...

ta11geese3 · 04-23-2006, 08:28 PM

With safin so wacko though, I don't know if that'll ever happen. Not to mention there's a decent chance that if it ever did, he'll go berserk and throw away the game >_<

tlm · 04-23-2006, 08:46 PM

Nadal is on his way to taking over is it not obvious?Fed might stay rated as #1 because nadal has not played very long+it will take some time.

But nadal is only 19,i cant imagine him in a couple more years.He will be the one to stain feds legacy.

superman1 · 04-23-2006, 09:07 PM

The record will turn around eventually. The problem is the two only meet in finals, and if Nadal is in the finals, it's going to be on a surface he likes. Federer will eventually relax a little more in their matches and make more of his shots. I get the feeling he's constantly rattled against Nadal because he has to hit so many more shots than usual. But at least now Federer knows what it's like to constantly lose to somebody. I'm sure the rest of the players are enjoying this.

knasty131 · 04-23-2006, 11:25 PM

all i have to say is kryptonite...there is always one thing that hurts the best...

Kalin · 04-24-2006, 04:23 AM

Have Nadal and Safin never played against each other before?

As for the question, as many here have said, Nadal's record against Fed is a big feather is Nadal's hat; not necessarily such a big stain on Fed's resume. If, and that's quite an 'if', they finish their careers with a similar number of GS titles; weeks No. 1 etc then the head-to-head record will mean a lot more than it does now.

Having said that; I am pretty sure there are few things Fed wants more than to even that head-to-head record a bit...

sotua · 04-24-2006, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm

Nadal is on his way to taking over is it not obvious?Fed might stay rated as #1 because nadal has not played very long+it will take some time.

But nadal is only 19,i cant imagine him in a couple more years.He will be the one to stain feds legacy.

The way I see it, if they continue this way Nadal will rule the first half of the year (clay and slow HC) and Federer will own the latter half (fast HC and grass). Nadal's running just won't do at Wimbledon unless they allow soccer cleats. Federer won't have an good answer for high topspin to his bh. In both cases, it would mean a pretty big makeover of their respective games to remedy those situations - and why would they mess with what makes them successful? (Just like Sampras considered a different racquet for the FO, but why mess with the game that allowed him to rule Wimbledon and the USO?)

What this means: bad luck, rest of the tour - you ain't seeing any slam titles anytime soon

tlm · 04-24-2006, 05:40 AM

I keep hearing the record will turn around,+ it is a problem they only meet in the finals.I thought fed never loses in finals,oh thats right fed didnt used to lose in finals.

Thats when he is beating all the rest of the weak mens field,now he has some competition+ he cant handle it.Did i hear this right that the best of all time has to relax better when he is playing a 1 dimensional 19 year old.

scotus · 04-25-2006, 02:15 PM

It's a clash of styles that has always been obvious in other sports like boxing. Certain boxers, usually southpaws, will give certain champions a great deal of trouble, even though they do not fare well against other boxers whom the champions have easily defeated.

superman1 · 04-25-2006, 03:19 PM

When the head-to-head does turn around, tlm, you'll have something to think about. You could go match by match:

1st match: Miami, Nadal wins 6-3 6-3. Federer was not feeling well.

2nd match: Miami, Federer wins 2-6, 6-7, 7-6, 6-3, 6-1. Nadal probably should have won, but lost due to fatigue.

3rd match: Roland Garros, Nadal wins 3-6, 6-4, 4-6, 3-6. Nadal says Federer was tougher in this match than he was in Monte Carlo. Federer says it was the worst semifinal he's played, and the darkness frustrated him. Nadal still won fair and square, but still, it's on clay so that's expected.

4th match: Dubai, Nadal wins 2-6, 6-4, 6-4. Federer wins more total points, dominates in first set, makes some mistakes and gets broken.

5th match: Monte Carlo, Nadal wins 6-2, 6-7, 6-3, 7-6. It's on clay, so it's expected.

It's too early to say that Nadal has Federer's number. 2 matches were on clay, in 1 Federer was sick, in 1 Federer won more points and probably played better overall, and in 1 Federer won because of better fitness.

tlm · 04-25-2006, 03:56 PM

This is the kind of reasoning that only a fed fan can understand.Fed was not feeling well did you talk to him before the match?Fed played the worst semi final ever okay,think nadal had anything to do with that?

Now in dubai fed won more total points+ what do they give you for that?+Do they also give you something special for dominating the first set?Let me get this right fed played better overall but he still lost the match,that makes perfect sense, i guess to somebody.

And finally the last whooping was on clay,i thought fed was the best of all time,seems like he would still be able to win on clay.

This is the same b.s. that all fed fans come up with. If fed turns the meetings with nadal around i will give him credit,but untill then it is plain+simple Nadal 4-1 over Fed.

These numbers dont lie+they cant be twisted around to make fed look good.I play a lot of matches+ if there is someone i play 5 times+ he beats me 4 times i dont claim to be better than him.

superman1 · 04-25-2006, 07:36 PM

I'm a fan of both guys, dumb-dumb. Why does everything need to be so damn polarized? I'm just saying that you can't just look at head-to-head and immediately say that Nadal is superior to Federer. Only mindless fools (are you one of them?) immediately reach conclusions like that. It just doesn't work that way, things are not black and white. Someone had to lose the match. If Nadal lost, other mindless fools would say he sucks and that he isn't really the king of clay.

Nictu · 04-26-2006, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm

This is the kind of reasoning that only a fed fan can understand.Fed was not feeling well did you talk to him before the match?Fed played the worst semi final ever okay,think nadal had anything to do with that?

Federer was recovering from a sunstroke he suffered at the beginning of the tournament but to his credit, he never used that as an excuse and told the media that Nadal was "that good". I bet he knew...

jackson vile · 04-26-2006, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nictu

Federer was recovering from a sunstroke he suffered at the beginning of the tournament but to his credit, he never used that as an excuse and told the media that Nadal was "that good". I bet he knew...

Get over yourself and Fed, it is not just as if he lost one game, he lost a series of games with people like to making an excuse each and every time.

And if anyone made an excuse for Nadal then people like you would freak out, Fed lost multiple times end of story and there is no chaning that, it is forever in the history books, end of story

tlm · 04-26-2006, 10:57 AM

Now it was sunstroke,hey we have a new one there is a endless supply of fed excuses.It never has anything to do with nadal.

Hal · 04-26-2006, 10:58 AM

The reason that the head to head is lopsided is because Nadal never reaches the finals (when Fed is in the draw) on grass or faster hardcourt. He only seems to make the finals on the clay or slow HC, where it looks like he currently has the edge over Roger. However, where is Nadal for the other finals when Roger is sitting there waiting for him? I didn't see Nadal in the Wimbly finals last year, or the US Open, the Masters Cup, or the Austrailian open, either. When (if) Nadal starts making finals on courts that faster, we'll start seeing Fed change the tides. In the meantime, Fed will continue to be waiting for Nadal in the finals (whether he's there or not).

tlm · 04-26-2006, 11:13 AM

Hal makes some good points about nadal not making it to more finals.I dont see him making it to any finals on grass.

But he should be getting there more on the hc.I think he is not consistent enough yet.He is only 19 so lets see in the future if he keeps improving he should be there more.

As far as i am concerned i want to see him play more on the hc,with a little more time on the hc he will be in more finals.I am not so sure fed wants to see him there though.

Nictu · 04-26-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile

Get over yourself and Fed, it is not just as if he lost one game, he lost a series of games with people like to making an excuse each and every time.

And if anyone made an excuse for Nadal then people like you would freak out, Fed lost multiple times end of story and there is no chaning that, it is forever in the history books, end of story

Calm down. I never said I didn't agree with that. I remember a very bad call against Nadal in the match Federer won and that is often used as an excuse for Nadal's only loss against Federer. I was just telling what I recall. Don't think everybody jumps on excuses because they like a player more the the other.

The H2H is 4-1, no asterisks.

FEDEXP · 04-26-2006, 06:24 PM

Oh give it a break, a stain has to do with losing virginity.

04-23-2006, 08:46 PM	#24
tlm Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,145	Nadal is on his way to taking over is it not obvious?Fed might stay rated as #1 because nadal has not played very long+it will take some time. But nadal is only 19,i cant imagine him in a couple more years.He will be the one to stain feds legacy. __________________ wilson six one 95 team-volkl cyclone 17 gauge at 62lbs.

04-24-2006, 05:40 AM	#29
tlm Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,145	I keep hearing the record will turn around,+ it is a problem they only meet in the finals.I thought fed never loses in finals,oh thats right fed didnt used to lose in finals. Thats when he is beating all the rest of the weak mens field,now he has some competition+ he cant handle it.Did i hear this right that the best of all time has to relax better when he is playing a 1 dimensional 19 year old. __________________ wilson six one 95 team-volkl cyclone 17 gauge at 62lbs.

04-25-2006, 03:56 PM	#32
tlm Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,145	This is the kind of reasoning that only a fed fan can understand.Fed was not feeling well did you talk to him before the match?Fed played the worst semi final ever okay,think nadal had anything to do with that? Now in dubai fed won more total points+ what do they give you for that?+Do they also give you something special for dominating the first set?Let me get this right fed played better overall but he still lost the match,that makes perfect sense, i guess to somebody. And finally the last whooping was on clay,i thought fed was the best of all time,seems like he would still be able to win on clay. This is the same b.s. that all fed fans come up with. If fed turns the meetings with nadal around i will give him credit,but untill then it is plain+simple Nadal 4-1 over Fed. These numbers dont lie+they cant be twisted around to make fed look good.I play a lot of matches+ if there is someone i play 5 times+ he beats me 4 times i dont claim to be better than him. __________________ wilson six one 95 team-volkl cyclone 17 gauge at 62lbs.

04-26-2006, 10:57 AM	#36
tlm Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,145	Now it was sunstroke,hey we have a new one there is a endless supply of fed excuses.It never has anything to do with nadal. __________________ wilson six one 95 team-volkl cyclone 17 gauge at 62lbs.

04-26-2006, 11:13 AM	#38
tlm Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,145	Hal makes some good points about nadal not making it to more finals.I dont see him making it to any finals on grass. But he should be getting there more on the hc.I think he is not consistent enough yet.He is only 19 so lets see in the future if he keeps improving he should be there more. As far as i am concerned i want to see him play more on the hc,with a little more time on the hc he will be in more finals.I am not so sure fed wants to see him there though. __________________ wilson six one 95 team-volkl cyclone 17 gauge at 62lbs.