Increase tension on last pull?

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by Pneumated1

Well, I thought so, but I just realized that I've strung two racquets with full syn. gut that call for a one piece, and I did a two piece. There's no need abusing a grommet with a starting knot when not necessary. Oh well, that won't be my last mistake; that's for sure!

Now, to the one piece vs. two piece stringing. I've looked up several racquets from several different manufacturers, and the only one I've found so far that recommends a two piece is Head. That being the case, I need to learn to do a one piece. I understand the concept of pre-running the string out on my short side to determine my length, but I'm a little unclear as to why some string the first cross or two with the short side, while others string all of the crosses with the long side. Any help here would be appreciated. And thanks in advance!

If you use the short side to run the top cross and hold that top cross with a starting clamp and tie it off last your drawback is be almost nothing. Also I think tying off the top and bottom crosses only is a very good idea.

The reason you have no drawback when you tie off the top and bottom crosses after stringing is done is because the string bed is much stiffer and the mains hold your clamps in place.

Then there is ATW when you mains end at the throat. Some ATW patterns allow you to tie off the top and bottom crosses only with and you will never have a blocked hole or hard weave.

But all these methods have their downfall and there are problem anytime you do not string the racket as the manufacturer recommends.

EDIT: By the way Jason Costello told me Babolat recommends two piece for all their rackets but one piece is ok.

Irvin

[Pneumated1]

Originally Posted by rjw

If you decide to look at the Stringway SBS calculator and/or string hybrids or differening main/cross tensions, then you'll have to go 2 piece.

I don't like or use starting knots, but again, ask 10 people and get 10 different answers.

warning: rookie stringer here

Thanks. I hit the BB London, and I drop my crosses 2-4 lbs., so I'll have to continue the two piece on it, I guess. I'm entertaining the idea of a starting clamp to go with the two floating clamps on my Klippermate so that I can tie off that starting cross, instead of using the starting knot. Here's another question, though: once you've started using starting knots, does that create too much crush in the grommet to subsequently start using tie-off knots like the Wilson Pro, Parnell, or two half hitch? Or would the starting knot and tie-off knot even share the same grommet?

[fortun8son]

Running the first cross with the short side ensures that both outer mains will be at equal tension. Make sure you increase the ss length to compensate. If you forget, just tie off as usual. No biggie.
1pc vs 2pc: Per USRSA. When given the choice, pick the one that allows the crosses to be strung top to bottom.
So, Wilson and Babolat use 2pc(orATW), Prince and Dunlop flip a coin, Head no choice. There are exceptions.

[Pneumated1]

Originally Posted by Irvin

If you use the short side to run the top cross and hold that top cross with a starting clamp and tie it off last your drawback is be almost nothing. Also I think tying off the top and bottom crosses only is a very good idea.

The reason you have no drawback when you tie off the top and bottom crosses after stringing is done is because the string bed is much stiffer and the mains hold your clamps in place.

Then there is ATW when you mains end at the throat. Some ATW patterns allow you to tie off the top and bottom crosses only with and you will never have a blocked hole or hard weave.

But all these methods have their downfall and there are problem anytime you do not string the racket as the manufacturer recommends.

EDIT: By the way Jason Costello told me Babolat recommends two piece for all their rackets but one piece is ok.

Irvin

Originally Posted by fortun8son

Running the first cross with the short side ensures that both outer mains will be at equal tension. Make sure you increase the ss length to compensate. If you forget, just tie off as usual. No biggie.
1pc vs 2pc: Per USRSA. When given the choice, pick the one that allows the crosses to be strung top to bottom.
So, Wilson and Babolat use 2pc(orATW), Prince and Dunlop flip a coin, Head no choice. There are exceptions.

Thank you both for your information. There may be variables that I'm overlooking, but if I'm thinking straight, as long as the loop starts in the head on a 16 Main frame, like my London, L2 and R2 will run back to the head, as well as every subsequent even main; therefore, I could do the one piece. I realize the opposite is true for a beginning loop in the throat on a 16 Main and a loop that starts in the head on an 18 Main frame.

Here's my question: Say I want to do a one piece but drop my cross tension 2-4lbs (like I do on my London); Could I clamp off the last main on the long side and run my first two crosses at the dropped tension, then clamp those first two crosses? Or would that influence the tension on that last main when I release its clamp? For all I know, that clamp on the last main on the long side may even be in the way. Even if I didn't clamp that last main on the long side, wouldn't I lose a little tenion anyway through friction as I jump over to that first/second cross with a one piece? I could then adjust tension on the rest of the crosses?

[Irvin]

Two tensions two strings. IMO it is always best to do 2 piece if you can.

Irvin

[Pneumated1]

Originally Posted by Irvin

Two tensions two strings. IMO it is always best to do 2 piece if you can.

Irvin

Okay. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Pneumated1]

[quote=Irvin;6043203. . . Then there is ATW when you mains end at the throat. Some ATW patterns allow you to tie off the top and bottom crosses only with and you will never have a blocked hole or hard weave.

But all these methods have their downfall and there are problem anytime you do not string the racket as the manufacturer recommends.Irvin[/QUOTE]

Out of curiosity, I looked up ATW. Now I'm intrigued and will have to give it a go. My London should be straight forward enough. However, considering that I do not have a starting clamp or a third floating clamp, should I run the top two crosses with the short side, so that I can then clamp them off after tensioning the second cross? Or, could I tension and clamp the first cross on the outside of the frame, using a floating clamp and scrap string?

Now, the K-Zero that a friend gave to my wife: TW recommends a one piece, but the mains end in the throat. I've watched a few videos for this scenario, but I'll have to belabor this a bit more. I'm understanding the concepts of leaving strings out and such, but what would you recommend for me as one who only has two floating clamps?

And I do plan to get either a third floating clamp and maybe a starting clamp in the near future, but I only have a Klippermate, so I'm trying to keep all of this in perspective. Thanks, Irvin.

[Irvin]

Let me preface this by saying that whenever you use the short side to run one or two top crosses you are putting a lot of stress on one or more of the four corners of your racket. If you use the short side to run the top cross on a 16 main racket that skips 7 and 9 when you run the long side for the second cross you only have a short distance of the frame from 10h to 9h on the long side to support the string when you do your 90 degree turn. If you run the top two crosses you will have that problem on the short side and another problem on the long side. You will have another short distance of the frame between 10h and 11h when you make the 270 degree turn on the long side. My preference is to run only the top cross and not the top two.

Originally Posted by Pneumated1

...My London should be straight forward enough. However, considering that I do not have a starting clamp or a third floating clamp, should I run the top two crosses with the short side, so that I can then clamp them off after tensioning the second cross? Or, could I tension and clamp the first cross on the outside of the frame, using a floating clamp and scrap string? ...

I would run only the top cross for the reason above.

Originally Posted by Pneumated1

...Now, the K-Zero that a friend gave to my wife: TW recommends a one piece, but the mains end in the throat. I've watched a few videos for this scenario, but I'll have to belabor this a bit more. I'm understanding the concepts of leaving strings out and such, but what would you recommend for me as one who only has two floating clamps?...

Now you have an example of when you could use an ATW pattern. What you don't want are any hard weaves or any blocked holes. No matter what anyone recommends I think the 2 piece is best for this racket. It is the only pattern that allows you to string top to bottom and not put excessive stress on a small section of string.

Because the mains skip 5h, 7h, 9h, 11h, and 12h I would not use an ATW pattern on this racket. But that racket does show you a small section of racket will support the strings. If you want to string one piece string the crosses bottom up.

Irvin

[Pneumated1]

Originally Posted by Irvin

Let me preface this by saying that whenever you use the short side to run one or two top crosses you are putting a lot of stress on one or more of the four corners of your racket. If you use the short side to run the top cross on a 16 main racket that skips 7 and 9 when you run the long side for the second cross you only have a short distance of the frame from 10h to 9h on the long side to support the string when you do your 90 degree turn. If you run the top two crosses you will have that problem on the short side and another problem on the long side. You will have another short distance of the frame between 10h and 11h when you make the 270 degree turn on the long side. My preference is to run only the top cross and not the top two. . . . I would run only the top cross for the reason above.

Thanks. I busted a string in one of my Londons last night, so I'll be having a go at stringing my own racquet for the first time. It has been strung 3 times with a two piece, but I may give the one piece a try this time. But as I mentioned, I only have two Klippermate floating clamps, so I'll have to clamp it to the outside of the frame with a scrap piece of string in order to run that top cross on the short side.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by Pneumated1

Thanks. I busted a string in one of my Londons last night, so I'll be having a go at stringing my own racquet for the first time. It has been strung 3 times with a two piece, but I may give the one piece a try this time. But as I mentioned, I only have two Klippermate floating clamps, so I'll have to clamp it to the outside of the frame with a scrap piece of string in order to run that top cross on the short side.

I don't think you will have any problem at all doing that. You are also going to notice than when you clamp the top cross outside the frame you will then have something to clamp the second cross to when you pull tension on the second cross. I would leave the clamp on the top cross until you have the whole racket strung. You will have to walk a single clamp down for all your crosses. After tying off the bottom cross go back up and tension the top cross again moving the clamp to the inside. Then you can tie off the top cross.

EDIT: Christmas is right around the corner. You need to put a starting clamp on your Christmas list. LOL

Irvin

[Pneumated1]

Originally Posted by Irvin

I don't think you will have any problem at all doing that. You are also going to notice than when you clamp the top cross outside the frame you will then have something to clamp the second cross to when you pull tension on the second cross. I would leave the clamp on the top cross until you have the whole racket strung. You will have to walk a single clamp down for all your crosses. After tying off the bottom cross go back up and tension the top cross again moving the clamp to the inside. Then you can tie off the top cross.

EDIT: Christmas is right around the corner. You need to put a starting clamp on your Christmas list. LOL

Irvin

Well I did my first one piece today on my BB London and ran the first cross with the short side. I'm still trying to figure out this old Klippermate, but all in all, the string job turned out pretty well, even though I made a few mistakes. I'm really not sure what I did, but I lost a little tension on that top cross when I went back to tension, clamp, and tie it off. And even though I put 7lbs more on the last mains and top/bottom crosses, they all lost tension. I'm starting to think that that may be a fact of stringing with floating clamps.

One thing that bugs me a little is that when I run my mains (at least the first 4-5) on this Klippermate and drop the arm level with tension, the arm falls past level when I release my clamp to move it. A third floating clamp would be very useful to eliminate this problem. I'll put that on the Christmas list as well, if I even wait that long.

I had my greatest success with my knots tonight. For some reason I had a hard time with your recommended Wilson Pro Knot. When I finally figured out how to cinch the loop without the tail interfering, I cinched it up nicely---too good it would turn out, as I snapped the string in half with pliers. Fortunately, I barely had enough string to run another loop for a 2 half hitch tie off.

When I tied off that top cross, I used a Parnell and it really fell into place for me. For some reason, this knot allows me to see how the cinching should take place. I cinched my tightest knot yet, even pulling all of the slack on the outside of the frame. I was puzzled as to why I lost tension on that top cross, but the knot was good.

Edit: This Klippermate has been a good experience for me, as I'm learning a ton and starting to see exactly what it is I want in a stringer. But let me ask you this: Would you put an eight-month old BB London on a Klippermate? It seems that people go back and forth on this issue, but that frame is under a lot of pressure on this machine; no doubt about it. I just don't know if I want to learn the ropes at the expense of my best frames. This dilemma has me really considering whether I should at least bump up to something like an Alpha Pioneer DC or DC Plus---something with a 6pt. mount and fixed clamps. I don't mind the dropweight, but a few hundred more entertains the idea of a crank. It's a lot to think about.

[kopfan]

When doing a one piece or atw stringing, if one did not increase tension before tie off... which will cause a huge unbalance tension on all the last string. What will the effect reflect on the racquet?

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by kopfan

When doing a one piece or atw stringing, if one did not increase tension before tie off... which will cause a huge unbalance tension on all the last string. What will the effect reflect on the racquet?

Why do you think there is a huge unbalance?

[kopfan]

Originally Posted by Irvin

Why do you think there is a huge unbalance?

Since one piece have the last main on tie off while the other main pulled at reference tension and string over to top cross with no tension loss. The main that that tie off have much less tension when measured by stringmeter.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by kopfan

Since one piece have the last main on tie off while the other main pulled at reference tension and string over to top cross with no tension loss. The main that that tie off have much less tension when measured by stringmeter.

if you use the short side to run in the top crosses you don't have that.

[kopfan]

Originally Posted by Irvin

if you use the short side to run in the top crosses you don't have that.

Good idea.. i will try that.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by Irvin

if you use the short side to run in the top crosses you don't have that.

Originally Posted by kopfan

Good idea.. i will try that.

if you do make sure you do not end up with a short section of frame supporting a transition from mains to crosses or vice-a-versa.