Dealing with a foot faulter in your league

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by spot

Did you mean to say call a foot fault if they are winning?

Ha yes. I've never seen it. People can say that they would call it whether they are winning or losing but thats simply not how I have ever seen it called. Its always been a Dbag move by someone who was losing and trying to do anything they could to unsettle the opponent.

has anyone ever seen someone who hadn't at least once been unsettled by being called out on a rules violation refer to it as a dbag move?

[spot]

I've never been called for a footfault in a match. I've seen it called in 3 matches and every single time it was a total D-bag move by a player who was losing and who was getting frustrated. (called twice by opponents, once by my team) Deciding to enforce a rule only when you are losing is pretty much the definition of poor sportsmanship. And absolutely there are plenty of total D-bag moves that can be pulled while staying completely within the rules.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by jk175d

lol, right, Because that's how everyone serves in the 4.5 leagues.

Sorry, but being called on a foot fault while being totally oblivious that you're doing it and then having a mental collapse leading to a loss does not sound like "4.5" to me.

Sounds like 3.5-4.0 antics played from a losing position.

It was also my mistake to not assume that everyone on the internet is 4.5 playoff level quality players too.

Originally Posted by jk175d

wow, you know how to stir up the hyperbole don't you? Look, you said you had never seen and couldn't imagine an instance where anything positive had come from calling a foot fault. I provided an anecdote to give a contrary example. The guy had at least one shoe completely in the court or it wouldn't even have occurred to me. As I said, almost half of the guys in USTA leagues, even at 4.5 level often have at least a toe if not a foot in the court on their serve. In hundreds of matches I've called it once, only AFTER talking to the guy about it on a changeover.

Your analogies are ridiculous, irrelevant and overblown.

So, the "positive" outcome was a win over a mentally insufficient opponent who has a collapse over being called for a footfault which you called after you happened to be losing. Ok.

And then we have another person in this thread talking about how his partner in a "college doubles tournament" walks up to the net and spikes the ball down and claims the point. Also, a "positive" outcome im guessing, because he won the point.

If you feel comfortable with calling a foot fault for players having a "toe in the court" that's all you. I agree that footfaulting happens. I agree that you are within your right to call it. I disagree with the amount that it is called and question the intentions behind those calls.

I really believe that 95% of foot faulting should be called by refs and not by opponents who are usually losing and getting desperate.

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

If you feel comfortable with calling a foot fault for players having a "toe in the court" that's all you.

you might be more pursuasive in your arguments if you didn't completely make up what you are arguing against. I clearly said the guy had his whole shoe in the court. and you turn that into toe in the court.

But I can see you just like to argue and don't believe a word anyone who dissagrees with you has to say. I won a state championship at 4.0 last year and have something like a 20-3 record at 4.5 this year (singles and doubles) so there is something else you can disbelieve to make yourself feel better. But go ahead and have the last word if you want. I'm done with you. Have fun arguing with your strawmen.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by jk175d

As I said, almost half of the guys in USTA leagues, even at 4.5 level often have at least a toe if not a foot in the court on their serve.

Originally Posted by jk175d

you might be more pursuasive in your arguments if you didn't completely make up what you are arguing against. I clearly said the guy had his whole shoe in the court. and you turn that into toe in the court.

So, what you're saying then, is that you can sometimes see toes in the court, but you'd only call it if his whole foot was in the court?

You're the one that's saying all these high level 4.5's have their toe in the court.

Originally Posted by jk175d

But I can see you just like to argue and don't believe a word anyone who dissagrees with you has to say. I won a state championship at 4.0 last year and have something like a 20-3 record at 4.5 this year (singles and doubles) so there is something else you can disbelieve to make yourself feel better. But go ahead and have the last word if you want. I'm done with you. Have fun arguing with your strawmen.

I also forgot that every time someone disagrees with you on the internet its always a strawman.

I have a 300-0 MMA record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

[I Heart Thomas Muster]

Our group used to have a tall serve and volley-er with long arms and 29 inch racquets who was 2-3 three feet inside the baseline before striking his serve. The rest of us discussed how to tell him for a LONG time cause he was a nice guy but never got around to it. However the birth of his first child removed him from our ranks and we never had to broach the subject.

[JW10S]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

(1)I dont see that happening in a "college doubles tournament" or in any tournament for that matter. If its college level tennis there should be chair umps... if not, at least some roaming officials.

(2)So is walking up to the net and slamming the ball into the service box and calling out "15-love". You are totally in your right to "get a ref", but doing what you did is not only a... foot fault... but also unsportsmanlike conduct and would result in suspension in most cases.

The response to cheating is not to cheat back harder. It never is.

Great story, but not very believable, and if it did happen, that was a really stupid thing to do. You not only risk defaulting the entire match but also risk being sanctioned. If this was just a "college aged people playing tennis" then whatever, but to do that in a "college doubles tournament" is just beyond stupid.

If someone is "that bad" then just call a ref. Imagine if they called a ref on you for doing that? Or if a ref just happened to look over and see those antics?

You've never played college tennis so I'm sure you wouldn't know--I on the other hand played on scholarship for an NCAA National Championship team. There were no roaming officials and besides they only see what they happen to see while they're roaming. This was a 26 court facility--and as I said there were no on court officials, and no roaming officials. There are times you need to take control over your own life and not just say 'I'm telling on you!'. The situation was handled on court by the 4 of us and worked out fine. The other guy foot faulted (cheated) repeatedly, my partner did it once and made his point. I don't care if you don't believe, but it did happen just as I relayed. And I've got a lot more stories from my experiences in college and on tour should you wish to learn. I think you'd be very surprised at what goes on in the real world.

[Zolar]

Originally Posted by spot

There should be a follow up thread for "how to deal with 'that guy' who feels compelled to call footfaults"

Wow, I'm one of those guys who used to feel compelled to call footfaults, especially if the server had a great angle serve out wide. And almost every opponent I brought it up to had a huge negative reaction! Like, I was calling him a cheater and he didn't foot fault and what a jerk I was. I tried all kinds of ways to tell opponents with no better result. Finally, I stopped watching (it was hard!) and now don't even look anymore. Not worth the bad vibes.

Why do people find it so hard to believe that they might be footfaulting??

[Torres]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

That video's really disturbing. It so sad that no one has ever set that old guy straight and instead allowed him to delude himself to such an extent.

[tennis tom]

Kool video, that chi gong **** is a bunch of bill moyers PBS bs, like accupuncture pure voo-doo. If that was for real, that old fart's delusional. Pretty funny when the old fart got his butt kicked. No one forced him to do it.

[Ronaldo]

Why not walk to the net and hammer your serve for a winner? Still a footfault.

[tennis tom]

"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?"

Multiple warehouses.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by spot

I've never been called for a footfault in a match. I've seen it called in 3 matches and every single time it was a total D-bag move by a player who was losing and who was getting frustrated. (called twice by opponents, once by my team)[/b] Deciding to enforce a rule only when you are losing is pretty much the definition of poor sportsmanship. [/b]And absolutely there are plenty of total D-bag moves that can be pulled while staying completely within the rules.

I'm on the fence there, Spot. Is it a total Dbag move to let something slide when you are winning but enforce the rule when you are losing?

I dunno. If I think I can beat you without breaking a sweat, I will let a lot of things slide. Like, I might not call a hindrance for shouting. I might not object to excessive grunting. But if I am losing or think the match is going to be tough, I might not want to deal with a lot of gamesmanship or nonsense.

An example. I hate people who return Obviously Out Faults. Huge pet peeve of mine. I don't call it, though. But if I were in a tough match and my opponent were doing it and it was either interrupting my service flow or getting under my skin, I might ask them to stop.

Does that make me a Dbag?

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by jc4.0

So - you're objecting to what you perceive to be an incorrect call? I thought you always just "let that go" and accept your opponent's call every time, laughing it off to avoid a confrontation. Based on an earlier post today.... so this call is different somehow? Just curious

LOL, how does this in anyway relate to the LIAR thread?

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I'm on the fence there, Spot. Is it a total Dbag move to let something slide when you are winning but enforce the rule when you are losing?

I dunno. If I think I can beat you without breaking a sweat, I will let a lot of things slide. Like, I might not call a hindrance for shouting. I might not object to excessive grunting. But if I am losing or think the match is going to be tough, I might not want to deal with a lot of gamesmanship or nonsense.

An example. I hate people who return Obviously Out Faults. Huge pet peeve of mine. I don't call it, though. But if I were in a tough match and my opponent were doing it and it was either interrupting my service flow or getting under my skin, I might ask them to stop.

Does that make me a Dbag?

Well, I think if something bothers you, then it bothers you - whether you are winning or losing. If something only bothers you when you are losing vs winning, then it's psychological, in which case it's your problem, not your opponents.

Or maybe you're saying some things bother you even when you are winning, but you're ok letting it slide despite it bothering you, since you have the match in the bag anyway? That's just human nature - avoid unnecessary confrontation.

But about one other thing you said: Have you ever actually objected to excessive grunting? I've just never seen that happen... although I've been tempted to do it myself. One of the guys I sometimes hit with makes a sound like a baby seal being clubbed on every shot, even dropshots.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by jc4.0

Cindy has indicated that she always just "laughs" when someone makes a bad call and never points it out, always accepting the call even when she disagrees.

In this case, she has reversed and objects to someone playing a serve that she has considered "out", i.e., she gets steamed in this case when her opponent makes a call she feels unjust, but not the other.

What's the diff?

You completely missed that point that Cindy made. It had nothing to do with a line call. She was saying it's a pet peeve of hers when someone breaks the Code Section "A player shall not return obviously out serves", therefore making her clear a ball out of the court and delaying her second serve. Not the line call, but the delay caused by someone hitting back a ball that was obviously out, when they could have just let it go to the back fence.

That's the diff!

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by jc4.0

So - you're objecting to what you perceive to be an incorrect call? I thought you always just "let that go" and accept your opponent's call every time, laughing it off to avoid a confrontation. Based on an earlier post today.... so this call is different somehow? Just curious

I laugh off things and go easy on rules in social matches to keep them friendly.

Woodrow gets it. I will add that I do not object to Obviously Out Fault returners in social matches because . . . :heavy beleaguered sigh: . . . why go there?

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by jc4.0

Yes, there is more than one rule dealing with "out" calls, you have just referenced two of them. Why is an out serve different from an out line call, when it comes to getting peeved? Cindy has told us she never gets upset about an out call, but maybe to clarify - she only gets miffed when someone hits what she perceives as her fault serve - a call which technically is also not hers to make because you can't call your own serve out. If your opponent plays it, you have to be ready to continue the point.

Seems to me, she should just cheerfully play each return, and not question them - but that's apparently not the case.

Slow your roll, please.

My personal approach to social matches is that *I don't object to piddling little crap, I don't enforce rules strictly, and I look to avoid confrontation or hard feelings.* I Let Stuff Go. In this manner, everyone can have fun and I won't make mortal enemies.

In league/tournament matches, I expect folks to play by the Code as best they can.

In a recent thread, for instance, I recounted something that happened in a league match. My opponent began celebrating as I was preparing to hit a ball. I called a hindrance and took the point, something I had never done before.

I would never, ever, not-in-a-million-years call a hindrance on my opponent in a *social match.* She could scream, "I slept with your husband!!" and I would not call a hindrance. I would laugh and perhaps conclude she was deeply psychotic, but I wouldn't call a hindrance.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by jc4.0

So you reserve anger for your league matches? That's more than a little sad. Personally, I bring the same good humor, sportsmanship and fun-loving spirit to each and every match I play.

Ssssiiiiiiggggghhhh.

Now *that* is a hoot!!

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

saw a 60+ singles player foot faulting massively in a seniors tournament the other day.

His opponent hadn't noticed it but someone on another court called the tournament ref who promptly appointed a chair umpire. (who called the FF straight away)

The player looked quite taken aback, muttered a bit but then started his motion from well behind the baseline and continued to serve quite well. Suggests he knew full well he was doing it.

I still don't now how I feel about this, but I guess it's probably the right thing.