Novak is so damn clutch.

[djokovic2008]

Originally Posted by Prisoner of Birth

Oh, so now it's Grand Slams, eh? Prime-Federer never lost to 30+ players at Slams. Has any Federer? Olderer bageled Djokovic. Nadal bageled past-prime-Federer on Clay and somehow that's a crowning achievement for Djokovic

Fact : Olderer bageled Prime-Djokovic on Djokovic's best surface. That is humiliating. Being bageled by the Clay-GOAT on Clay when you're past your prime? Yes, humiliating, but nowhere near the same as being bageled on your best surface by a 31 year-old

How old are you 15, you have no logic in your arguments.

[djokovic2008]

Originally Posted by Tony48

EDIT: I honestly don't care anymore. This is far too childish of a discussion to continue. I'd rather stick to the topic.

Dont waste your time.

[Prisoner of Birth]

Originally Posted by djokovic2008

How old are you 15, you have no logic in your arguments.

How old are you, 2? There's no question-mark after your "question".

[Feather]

Originally Posted by kragster

Umm, surely you mean Fed's best surface. Fast HC is Fed's best surface, not Nole's as evidenced by his record at Cinci.

Anyway to continue trolling , what about the beatdown peak Fed received from injured Kuerten at the FO in 2004 (6-4, 6-4. 6-4) . I don't recall Djokovic ever being beat this badly in his peak at a slam(assuming 2010-2014 = peak for Nole).

Djokovic was beaten in straights in Wimbledon 2010 by Berdych.

The point many miss or continue to ignore is how the surfaces also lined up against Roger. He didn't have fast surfaces like what Pete had in his 30s to enhance his attacking skills. Pete made consecutive finals at US open in 30s but Roger had to fight on slow surface and still he was on match points on either times against Novak Djokovic when he lost in 2010 and 2011.

People were complaining when just ONE surface appeared fast, well, am talking about Madrid blue clay. However no one has issues with ALL the surfaces being slowed down. They have slowed down all the surfaces and took away weapons from attacking players. Still Roger is doing good. Sadly that point is lost .

[djokovic2008]

Originally Posted by Feather

Djokovic was beaten in straights in Wimbledon 2010 by Berdych.

The point many miss or continue to ignore is how the surfaces also lined up against Roger. He didn't have fast surfaces like what Pete had in his 30s to enhance his attacking skills. Pete made consecutive finals at US open in 30s but Roger had to fight on slow surface and still he was on match points on either times against Novak Djokovic when he lost in 2010 and 2011.

People were complaining when just ONE surface appeared fast, well, am talking about Madrid blue clay. However no one has issues with ALL the surfaces being slowed down. They have slowed down all the surfaces and took away weapons from attacking players. Still Roger is doing good. Sadly that point is lost .

Are still tyring to make excuses lol NO ONE is buying what your selling, dubai is fast conditions and novak beat fed there in the final too.

[kragster]

Originally Posted by Feather

Djokovic was beaten in straights in Wimbledon 2010 by Berdych.

The point many miss or continue to ignore is how the surfaces also lined up against Roger. He didn't have fast surfaces like what Pete had in his 30s to enhance his attacking skills. Pete made consecutive finals at US open in 30s but Roger had to fight on slow surface and still he was on match points on either times against Novak Djokovic when he lost in 2010 and 2011.

People were complaining when just ONE surface appeared fast, well, am talking about Madrid blue clay. However no one has issues with ALL the surfaces being slowed down. They have slowed down all the surfaces and took away weapons from attacking players. Still Roger is doing good. Sadly that point is lost .

Childish taunting aside, I don't think any one doesn't seriously admire what Fed has been able to do. His longevity and his ability to fight back to get the no 1 ranking are remarkable. I am almost certain the other guys will have a much sharper decline than Fed and I can't see any scenario where Feds records are broken.

That being said , I think the surface argument is both true and false . The lack o faster surfaces may have benefitted djoko/Nadal/Murray the most but it has also benefited Fed. Simply because it has prevented the development of attacking 1st strike players who can cause upsets. And it has put an emphasis on stamina which a lot of young players don't develop until later.

I'm totally in favor of more variety and speeding up the USo etc I'm just not a huge fan of 'some fans' using the age/surface excuse all the time to discredit opponent wins.

[Povl Carstensen]

Have not read the entire thread... But at setpoints Federer went for shots. He did not execute you can say, but had he played more percentage, people would have been after him also. Federer must really be bugging some people, well ok...

[Feather]

Originally Posted by djokovic2008

Are still tyring to make excuses lol NO ONE is buying what your selling, dubai is fast conditions and novak beat fed there in the final too.

Firstly, I am not here to make excuses for Roger Federer. His resume speaks for himself not some random unknown cyber warrior in a Tennis forum

Don't assume too much mate. I never said Novak cannot beat Roger at fast surfaces. Fast surfaces make the players, read Roger Federer, more susceptible to upsets from big hitters also.

I only said slowing down of all surfaces have affected Roger more when it comes to the big four as he is the most attacking player among them. It wouldn't be easy to defend on surfaces where you can hardly put a racquet to the ball.

[Feather]

Originally Posted by kragster

Childish taunting aside, I don't think any one doesn't seriously admire what Fed has been able to do. His longevity and his ability to fight back to get the no 1 ranking are remarkable. I am almost certain the other guys will have a much sharper decline than Fed and I can't see any scenario where Feds records are broken.

That being said , I think the surface argument is both true and false . The lack o faster surfaces may have benefitted djoko/Nadal/Murray the most but it has also benefited Fed. Simply because it has prevented the development of attacking 1st strike players who can cause upsets. And it has put an emphasis on stamina which a lot of young players don't develop until later.

I'm totally in favor of more variety and speeding up the USo etc I'm just not a huge fan of 'some fans' using the age/surface excuse all the time to discredit opponent wins.

I can understand your point

Well, Kragster, I, despite being a fanatic Roger Federer fan, have never posted even once that Roger is the GOAT. I always ,that word is a disservice to all the greats who played different opponents at different time under different conditions. I am NOT obsessed with records also. Stefan Edberg used to be my favorite player even though I used to like Pete Sampras and Sampras was breaking all records. I like Llodra and the way he plays. The other day I saw his match with Isner, and really felt sad that none of the surfaces in the tour is conducive to his style of play, serve and volley. I want variety not from Roger point of view. Roger would be around ONLY for a couple of years more.

[djokovic2008]

Originally Posted by Feather

Firstly, I am not here to make excuses for Roger Federer. His resume speaks for himself not some random unknown cyber warrior in a Tennis forum

Don't assume too much mate. I never said Novak cannot beat Roger at fast surfaces. Fast surfaces make the players, read Roger Federer, more susceptible to upsets from big hitters also.

I only said slowing down of all surfaces have affected Roger more when it comes to the big four as he is the most attacking player among them. It wouldn't be easy to defend on surfaces where you can hardly put a racquet to the ball.

So you want super fast courts with no tennis skill required so karlovic and the like can do well PLEASE, it was super fast in the 90s and was sending us to sleep now you see shoting making and not one two punch tennis.

When verdasco played Raonic last year and got served off the court he said "this is not tennis" and at that time Raonic was less developed than he is now. Is that what you what big servers without skill or touch knocking out shotmakers well DO YOU??

[kragster]

Originally Posted by djokovic2008

So you want super fast courts with no tennis skill required so karlovic and the like can do well PLEASE, it was super fast in the 90s and was sending us to sleep now you see shoting making and not one two punch tennis.

When verdasco played Raonic last year and got served off the court he said "this is not tennis" and at that time Raonic was less developed than he is now. Is that what you what big servers without skill or touch knocking out shotmakers well DO YOU??

I don't think it's fair to say that super fast courts mean no tennis skills. I don't think anyone wants all or even a majority of courts to be like that but it would be nice to have more variety. I used to be a huge Sampras fan and sometimes I loved to watch him serve 4 aces to finish a game. Even with Djokovic sometimes I like to see him play incredible defense but sometimes I like him to just swing for the fences.

If we can keep the physicality of the modern game but also speed up a couple of tournaments (USO and a couple of masters) , then we will have a pretty good balance of everything. Then we would have

USO - Fast
Wimby - Medium Fast
AO - Medium
RG - Slow

With the Masters if we speed up Paris/WTF, we have Rome/MC (slow) , Madrid (fast clay - need to figure out the slipperiness issue), IW/Miami/Toronto (medium) and then we could have Cincy/Paris/wTF fast. Maybe replace one of those HC masters with a grass masters and we would be perfect.

[Povl Carstensen]

Reasonable, so don't expect djokovic2008 to buy into that.

[power level 800]

Originally Posted by The Bawss

The man doesn't feel tension. He doesn't get nervous or anxious. Novak is born to win. Roger is born to choke.

The last point played of the season.

[FlamEnemY]

Originally Posted by kragster

Well said. Djoker also has this uncanny ability to paint the lines with his returns when he's down just like Sampras had this ability to Serve down the T when he was down.

I so wish for a prime Sampras vs prime Djokovic match right now...