Marc Lopez and Gronollier--doubles, Can Amateurs Learn from them?

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Lopez, little guy with weak serve, Gronollier--not exactly your most talented player on tour. and yet these guy beat the best in the world in doubles and proved, you don't need 130mph serves and 90 mph passing shots and returns to win at the highest level.

To all the experts like Fuzzy yellow ball and Jeff Salzenstein, What can we learn from these guys ? that can translate into USTA 4.5 or even 4.0 level doubles tennis ?

Hey!

So I've spoken a little bit with Bob & Mike Bryan about these two. Basically what the Bros said is that singles players tend to get right on the net to mask their weaker volleys. Often they'll guess where they think the ball is going to be, and if they guess right it's an easy put away volley.

There is A LOT of I-Formation going on. Not only does that make it tougher for the returner to pick a target for a normal return, but also the lob can lose effectiveness. If you lob to the side that the server is closing on, he could have an easy overhead or high volley.

Interestingly, the Bros almost never use I-Formation. They're bigger guys (6'4") and they said that makes them a little slower out of the crouched position you start the I in.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

As I am watching the davis cup. How does 5'9" Lopez hold serve so consistently with 100 mph or 90 mph 1st serve ? this is at the very highest level of ATP, we are talking about now.

He gets a lot of help from the net man, and the broader lesson here is that holding serve in doubles is a TEAM effort. The Bros show a lot of movement at net, whether they are poaching or not, to throw off the returner. Don't let him take a big rip, giving the server a very tough first volley.

Hope that helps!

- Will @ FYB

[Nostradamus]

^^^Helps great deal. I did notice Lopez gets a lot of help from Gronollier moving and picking off volleys. although Gronollier cost the team that 2nd set by missing 3 easy volleys. he seem to volley better while moving and not standing still, which is kind of weird.

Which team is better ? Lopez and Nadal or Lopez and Gronollier ?

[Nostradamus]

^^^Also will, can Amateurs learn anything from Lopez and how he plays ? He stays back on his serve which is something I am not used to doing at 4.5 level. I was taught to serve and volley most of the time.
Also I formation is something that Amateurs rarely use if ever. even at 4.0 and 4.5 level doubles, you almost never see it. cause guys just don't believe they can pull it off effectively

[5263]

Originally Posted by wihamilton

Hey!

He gets a lot of help from the net man, and the broader lesson here is that holding serve in doubles is a TEAM effort.
Hope that helps!

- Will @ FYB

A lot of very good comments in your post!
One I wanted to comment more on I quoted above. My will realize this means the
net man needs to help out his server, but how many realize how the server
helps himself by helping the net man?
That doesn't mean just big serving, but hitting spots and finding weakness on the
returner. Avoiding the strength of the returner is key for sure.
Kicks to the body along with wide on the Bh can create for the net man, even
without big mph. Lower skidding serves are tough on dubs returners as well.

[dominikk1985]

Originally Posted by 5263

A lot of very good comments in your post!
One I wanted to comment more on I quoted above. My will realize this means the
net man needs to help out his server, but how many realize how the server
helps himself by helping the net man?
That doesn't mean just big serving, but hitting spots and finding weakness on the
returner. Avoiding the strength of the returner is key for sure.
Kicks to the body along with wide on the Bh can create for the net man, even
without big mph. Lower skidding serves are tough on dubs returners as well.

yes. it sucks to be at the net with a weak serving partner. duck and cover time

[kiki]

Spain´s always ahd top teams, with a dent on the Doubles Masters.

Orantes/Gisbert in the 70´s, Casal/Sanchez in the late 80´s/early 90´s and now, Granollers/Lopez ( who are, by far, the most unknown of the lot)

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

As I am watching the davis cup. How does 5'9" Lopez hold serve so consistently with 100 mph or 90 mph 1st serve ? this is at the very highest level of ATP, we are talking about now.

I am also watching it now

[Nostradamus]

Lopez and Gronollier the winner of YEC lost. what does this mean ?

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Lopez and Gronollier the winner of YEC lost. what does this mean ?

That sometimes players win, sometimes they lose?

[Doubles]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Lopez and Gronollier the winner of YEC lost. what does this mean ?

That you shouldn't try and develop your game after theirs as they lost, and you don't want to play like a loser.

[julian]

Originally Posted by kiki

Spain´s always ahd top teams, with a dent on the Doubles Masters.

Orantes/Gisbert in the 70´s, Casal/Sanchez in the late 80´s/early 90´s and now, Granollers/Lopez ( who are, by far, the most unknown of the lot)

Did you mean "had" instead of "ahd"?

[julian]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

^^^Also will, can Amateurs learn anything from Lopez and how he plays ? He stays back on his serve which is something I am not used to doing at 4.5 level. I was taught to serve and volley most of the time.
Also I formation is something that Amateurs rarely use if ever. even at 4.0 and 4.5 level doubles, you almost never see it. cause guys just don't believe they can pull it off effectively

Did you get any coaching about the I formation?

[5263]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Also I formation is something that Amateurs rarely use if ever. even at 4.0 and 4.5 level doubles, you almost never see it. cause guys just don't believe they can pull it off effectively

What is hard to pull off in I formation?

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

^^^Helps great deal. I did notice Lopez gets a lot of help from Gronollier moving and picking off volleys. although Gronollier cost the team that 2nd set by missing 3 easy volleys. he seem to volley better while moving and not standing still, which is kind of weird.

Which team is better ? Lopez and Nadal or Lopez and Gronollier ?

Moving forward through your volley typically makes them easier. By going to get the ball it will be higher in your strike zone and your forward momentum will add pace, which means you don't have to swing as hard and can emphasize control. Also, the closer you are to the net the more angle you have to work with.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

^^^Also will, can Amateurs learn anything from Lopez and how he plays ? He stays back on his serve which is something I am not used to doing at 4.5 level. I was taught to serve and volley most of the time.
Also I formation is something that Amateurs rarely use if ever. even at 4.0 and 4.5 level doubles, you almost never see it. cause guys just don't believe they can pull it off effectively

Staying back is something you can do if your serve (particularly second serve) is getting punished. Some guys hit an approach shot off of the return. So in effect the server is replacing a potentially tough first volley around the service line with an easier approach shot.

I think what's really important to highlight is that pros might stay back but that doesn't mean they become passive. The baseline guy is still aggressive, whether that means he's looking for opportunities to close or he's hitting shots that set up his net man to pick off the subsequent reply.

Mindset is really important - and often overlooked. Don't be Passive Pete. Stay aggressive.

[treblings]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Lopez and Granollers the winner of YEC lost. what does this mean ?

you´re welcome

[tennisdad65]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Lopez and Gronollier the winner of YEC lost. what does this mean ?

YEC was on a slower indoor surface. It helped them a lot. They would not have done as well if YEC was on a fast indoor surface like in the DC final.

[LuckyR]

In addition, the home court advantage (regardless of surface) in Davis Cup is not to be underestimated.