Nadal and Djokovic would not have survived the 80's and 90's - Becker

[sonicare]

Mustad peddling his BS as usual.

The only 2 players from the open era who IMO would have no problems adapting to any court/conditions are borg and federer.

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by Mustard

The thread title says that Nadal and Djokovic wouldn't have survived in the 1980s and 1990s. I think it's clear that Nadal could have survived in these decades.
The thread title says "wouldn't survive", not "wouldn't be as successful".
Thread title: Nadal and Djokovic would not have survived the 80's and 90's - Becker
There were clay-court tournaments galore in these decades, where serve and volley was a lot more scarce.
Conclusion: Relevant to this discussion.

You are amusing.

The whole point of asking you, whether you understand, what Becker said , is that it should not be taken literally.

I seriously doubt, that Becker thought, that Nadal wouldn't be as successful on clay, no matter in what era. That leaves us with the surfaces outside of clay, and, since you seem to not understand a word from what he meant, he was talking about the fast and ultrafast surfaces. That is the whole point of comparing now and then, since now there are plenty of slow and medium paced HC.

Really, what exactly did you understand and argue about?

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Tennis_Hands

US Open was much faster than it has been for the past several years. And who said, that the speed of the HC should be as fast as carpet? You are making absurd assumptions, just to refute them and thus "prove" your point. Pathetic.

There you go putting words in my mouth again. I said that some people were saying that hardcourts should be speeded up, when the main reason for the court speeds going down on the tour is the new racquet and string technology, combined with the slow fazing out of carpet courts from 1997-2007, and the change of Wimbledon grass to 100% Rye in September 2001. 2002 Wimbledon was the slowest Wimbledon I've ever seen. No other Wimbledon comes close to being as slow, either before or since.

If people want faster conditions, then bringing back carpet courts is the obvious answer. Going on about hardcourts needing to be speeded up is odd.

Originally Posted by Tennis_Hands

US Open was easily as fast as Cincinnati years back. Tell us how successful Nadal is in Cincinnati?

Why is odd for US Open to be fast? Odd

Cincinnati is the fastest North American hardcourt on tour, and I've never thought that the US Open was as fast as Cincinnati. I've tried to tell you about the vital technological factor involved in the last 10-15 years, making it easier to hit a lot of hard spin, which makes the surfaces look slower than the older days, but you weren't having it.

[beast of mallorca]

Becker would have cried like a baby girl at the hands of Rafa and Djoker

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by sonicare

Mustad peddling his BS as usual.

The only 2 players from the open era who IMO would have no problems adapting to any court/conditions are borg and federer.

And you know this, how? Do you have a TARDIS or DeLorean as well? It's funny how many seem to be lying around for TT members to use

[RF20Lennon]

Originally Posted by dimeaxe

For Novak, it's not fast surface/conditions that bothers him in Cinci.It's hot weather.I think after four matches, playing every day, he's dead in finals even though he cope with it much better these days.

I lived in Dubai for a while its waaaaaaaaay hotter than cincy but you cant blame that for the loss last year to Murray. How about 2008 and 2009 when the final was played in the evening??

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Tennis_Hands

You are amusing.

The whole point of asking you, whether you understand, what Becker said , is that it should not be taken literally.

I seriously doubt, that Becker thought, that Nadal wouldn't be as successful on clay, no matter in what era. That leaves us with the surfaces outside of clay, and, since you seem to not understand a word from what he meant, he was talking about the fast and ultrafast surfaces. That is the whole point of comparing now and then, since now there are plenty of slow and medium paced HC.

Really, what exactly did you understand and argue about?

I understand what Becker was saying. The point is, even if you were rubbish at dealing with serve and volley players in the 1980s and 1990s, you could make a strong career on tour. Look at Thomas Muster, and he did it after severed ligaments in his knee.

[dimeaxe]

Originally Posted by RF20Lennon

I lived in Dubai for a while its waaaaaaaaay hotter than cincy but you cant blame that for the loss last year to Murray. How about 2008 and 2009 when the final was played in the evening??

Cause even Cinci is slowed down, that's why

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by Mustard

. I said that some people were saying that hardcourts should be speeded up, when the main reason for the court speeds going down on the tour is the slow fazing out of carpet courts from 1997-2007.

This bolded statement is ridiculous. We are not talking about lower AVERAGE speed of the courts on Tour. We are talking about the slowing of the speeds of the surfaces, which were not known to be as they are now (US Open being one of them, AO being one of them etc).

How exactly the extinction of carpet is directly related to the slowing of US Open or AO?

Originally Posted by Mustard

... and the change of Wimbledon grass to 100% Rye in September 2001. 2002 Wimbledon was the slowest Wimbledon I've ever seen. No other Wimbledon comes close to being as slow, either before or since.

What does the speed of Wimbledon in 2002 have to do with this discussion? The only relevance, it has, is to mark the beginning of the slowing of grass at Wimbledon. It is a fact, that the grass at Wimbledon has been slowed down sigificantly and is slow compared to the grass in the 80ies and the 90ies there.

Originally Posted by Mustard

... Going on about hardcourts needing to be speeded up is odd.

It is odd , that people ask for the original speed of US Open?

Originally Posted by Mustard

Cincinnati is the fastest North American hardcourt on tour, and I've never thought that the US Open was as fast as Cincinnati.

Way back both tourneys were about the same speed (give or take).

Originally Posted by Mustard

I've tried to tell you about the vital technological factor involved in the last 10-15 years, making it easier to hit a lot of hard spin, which makes the surfaces look slower than the older days, but you weren't having it.

The power and the spin, that the modern rackets and strings generate make the surfaces look slower than they really are?

You are outdoing yourself by the minute.

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by Mustard

I understand what Becker was saying. The point is, even if you were rubbish at dealing with serve and volley players in the 1980s and 1990s, you could make a strong career on tour. Look at Thomas Muster, and he did it after severed ligaments in his knee.

But the point, that Becker is trying to make is not, whether they would have good careers. I am sure, that he is well aware, that even with his RG titles Nadal would be considered as one of the Greats. So it must be something else.

What could it be?

[dimeaxe]

I remember how many big points these s/v players have lost rushing to the net, and not trying to construct one point from the baseline.I remember them doing that in situations even if it didn't have any sense.I understand people who don't like endless baseline game, but on the others hand it's a great way to disturb other player's rhythm on his service game.If you jerk him around the court, it's a great possibility that's he's going to miss some first serves, it's even more effective against big guys.

[beast of mallorca]

Becker is just being a sour puss because Rafa has eclipsed his accomplishments and Djoker is on his way to do the same. Nobody here knows, whether you are a pro player has been or not, how Rafa or Djoker would have fared in the 70s, 80s, 90s.

Who's here to say how each one would have adapted to a specific era to dominate like they did. Everything here are mere speculations which are all dependent on our respective bias and allegiance because nobody here will ever know. Just My 2 cents.

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by beast of mallorca

Becker is just being a sour puss because Rafa has eclipsed his accomplishments and Djoker is on his way to do the same. Nobody here knows, whether you are a pro player has been or not, how Rafa or Djoker would have fared in the 70s, 80s, 90s.

Who's here to say how each one would have adapted to a specific era to dominate like they did. Everything here are mere speculations which are all dependent on our respective bias and allegiance because nobody here will ever know. Just My 2 cents.

True, but Becker only wanted to watch all the ***** have a go at one another on TT. Mission accomplished.

[dimeaxe]

I remember Federer once said, that every great player of any era, would be great in any other era

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by dimeaxe

I remember how many big points these s/v players have lost rushing to the net, and not trying to construct one point from the baseline.I remember them doing that in situations even if it didn't have any sense.I understand people who don't like endless baseline game, but on the others hand it's a great way to disturb other player's rhythm on his service game.If you jerk him around the court, it's a great possibility that's he's going to miss some first serves, it's even more effective against big guys.

The whole point, that the proponents of the return of the fast surfaces are making is, that a balance between slow, medium and fast/ultrafast surfaces should be struck, so that the coaches and younger players are stimulated, to develop a multifaceted games and a variety of styles.

It was never an intention to create a Tour, dominated solely by fast surfaces or S&V tennis, as some people here are implying.

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by dimeaxe

I remember Federer once said, that every great player of any era, would be great in any other era

In a later interview he excluded Djokovic from that statement though.

[gplracer]

A lot of this is luck of the draw. If a player has the game style that is suited to the court, conditions, string technology, and game style. I do not think that Nadal would have done as well in the 80's because the string technology was different and the speed of the surface and the balls were different. Hence I think Agassi would have done better today. They are all great players it is just lucky as to all of these factors when they are in their prime.

[beast of mallorca]

Originally Posted by NadalDramaQueen

True, but Becker only wanted to watch all the ***** have a go at one another on TT. Mission accomplished.

Hahaha, so true...............TW is the center of the Tennis Universe

[nethawkwenatchee]

A guy like Raonic may have been a standout in the 80'-90's fast court era

[dimeaxe]

Originally Posted by Tennis_Hands

The whole point, that the proponents of the return of the fast surfaces are making is, that a balance between slow, medium and fast/ultrafast surfaces should be struck, so that the coaches and younger players are stimulated, to develop a multifaceted games and a variety of styles.

It was never an intention to create a Tour, dominated solely by fast surfaces or S&V tennis, as some people here are implying.

I'm supporting this whole idea, for sake of tennis, and to prevent injuries, but i said in another post that's a hypocritical statement from Roger to do this and man himself has greatly benefited from removing fast carpet and this whole process...I mean after 17 GS and many other records, very smart from Roger to say that.