Seeking Poly that combines the best properties of these two strings...

travlerajm · 10-30-2012, 11:42 AM

I’m looking for my next poly to use as a cross with Kevlar mains.

As an aside, I still believe Kevlar/poly hybrid is the most underrated stringbed setup – unmatched control, unmatched spin (more spin than full poly IMO), almost as consistent response as a Kevlar/syn gut hybrid, and low power. Tensions need to be a little lower for best results.

The two poly’s I have the most experience with (because I own a reel of each) are WC Silverstring 1.20 and Prince Tournament Poly 16.
Interestingly, these two poly’s have very different (if not opposite) characteristics within the poly category:

Prince Tournament Poly 16 is extremely slippery, extremely dent resistant, has poor tension stability, and keeps its slipperiness as it wears over time. As a result of these properties, it’s extremely spin-friendly as a cross with Kevlar. And as it wears, the stringbed becomes even more spin-friendly, but directional control drops as the stringbed softens. At the right tension, this is tough to beat (would use it as my go-to cross if it weren't for the tension stability issue). I initially discovered PTP when I was rifling through the reels at the local pro shop, giving the feel test to see which string had the most slippery surface - PTP was far more lubricious than the other poly's in the bin that day.

In stark contrast, WC Silverstring is not very slippery for a poly, has medium to low dent resistance for a poly, but has very good tension stability for a poly. As a result, the stringbed is not as spin-friendly when I use SS as a cross with Kevlar, but the stringbed stays more consistent over time due to the better tension stability.

I’d like to know what strings might have a combination of the best properties of these two strings?

That is: I want a string that's extremely slippery, stays extremely slippery as it wears, and extremely dent-resistant (like Tourna poly), but also with good tension stability (like WC SS).

As another aside, I have some background in polymer chemistry. I am curious whether slipperiness and tension stability might be somewhat mutually exclusive properties? Strings with better tension stability tend to have either crosslinks or branched side chains that prevent neighboring polymer chains from sliding by each other so easily. But these features also tend to reduce lubricity.

tlm · 10-30-2012, 03:03 PM

I have been using yonex poly tour spin as a cross with gamma power play mains and they play very good together. Not sure if the yonex is real slippery though.

TaihtDuhShaat · 10-30-2012, 06:16 PM

I never got around to trying it, but the Discho Iontec Salmon is more glassy hard on the surface than SS, and it is reported to have good tension stability. It seems like it would be a more spin friendly cross than SS. It's definitely not as dent resistant as PTP, nothing is!

WC Scorpion is a more spin friendly cross than SS, but loses a fair share of control later in its life. Still much more stable than PTP though.

2ndServe · 10-30-2012, 09:39 PM

I liked msv hex as a cross. BTW what kevlar do you use? I'm working my way through my ashaway 17g and 18g reels but it seems to get too loose after 1 hour.

travlerajm · 10-31-2012, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndServe

I liked msv hex as a cross. BTW what kevlar do you use? I'm working my way through my ashaway 17g and 18g reels but it seems to get too loose after 1 hour.

I use ashaway, either 17g or 18g too.

One of Kevlar's properties is that it has a 1-hour break-in period, and then it seems to stabilize and play about the same thereafter until it breaks. This is in contrast to poly's, which tend to gradually stretch out and lose tension until they become unplayable. I suspect that the break-in period is less due to the kevlar creeping (because kevlar doesn't seem to creep when a drop weight is hanging from it), and more simply due to the stringbed equalizing as the friction slack is pulled out. I've started using a stringing method where I pull out the friction slack before tie-off, and now the break-in tension loss is much less dramatic than it used to be. I posted a thread on that method.

I usually use a tension for the kevlar where I like it after the break-in period. If it's too loose after the break-in, just string a few pounds tighter.

Right now, I'm working my way through a reel of 18g ashaway. What I like about the 18g is that it breaks at about the same time that my current poly cross (SS) finally gets too stretched out.

travlerajm · 10-31-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaihtDuhShaat

I never got around to trying it, but the Discho Iontec Salmon is more glassy hard on the surface than SS, and it is reported to have good tension stability. It seems like it would be a more spin friendly cross than SS. It's definitely not as dent resistant as PTP, nothing is!

WC Scorpion is a more spin friendly cross than SS, but loses a fair share of control later in its life. Still much more stable than PTP though.

Thanks for suggestions - I may give those a look.

JT_2eighty · 10-31-2012, 08:34 AM

Polystar Strike is very slippery, almost a greasy coating to it. It has decent tension hold (above average, but probably not like WC strings, which are among the best around for tension hold). Its texture is not going to impede snap-back, I've used in it many hybrid settings, with other polys and with gut mains. Not sure on the dent resistance issue, I've never really looked at that. The string seems to remain slippery over time, even after the greasy coating wears off. I've not tried PTP, so can't directly compare (I have a reel of Strike if a one-set trade would interest you).

(I have tried kevlar main/polystar energy crosses, but they definitely are SOFT, and dent easily I would imagine. Strike is a stiffer animal with much better tension hold than the rest of the polystar family).

I also agree with you, kevlar/poly is by far the best "spin at all costs" stringbed... more spin than full poly, gut/poly, etc etc. I just didn't like it on flat groundies & serves.

JT_2eighty · 10-31-2012, 08:38 AM

Otherwise, have you tried Lux BBO? Contrary to ALU which has bad tension maintenance, I find BBO to hold quite well.

TaihtDuhShaat · 11-05-2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaihtDuhShaat

I never got around to trying it, but the Discho Iontec Salmon is more glassy hard on the surface than SS, and it is reported to have good tension stability. It seems like it would be a more spin friendly cross than SS. It's definitely not as dent resistant as PTP, nothing is!

WC Scorpion is a more spin friendly cross than SS, but loses a fair share of control later in its life. Still much more stable than PTP though.

I should note another string:

MSV Co-Focus: much more dent resistant and slick than SS. The kevlar slides very easily across it, and it doesn't notch. It gets springy later in its life though. It was the easiest to use out of those that I mentioned since it had that awesome unbelievable spin, and a nice bit of power with the heavy SW (occasional kick serves and forehand jumping beyond belief).

That might be the better direction to go. I am going to order some more of the 1.18 myself since Scorpion starts to lose its hallmark control as it ages, and doesn't provide enough spin/power to counteract (it loses tension but doesn't gain that much power).

unorthodox stringing · 11-17-2012, 10:37 PM

travlerajm,

I share the same view about the potential of a kevlar/poly hybrid. I recently started documenting and posting some stringing experiments online.

Being a new member here, I doubt if I am allowed to send PMs or emails yet. So if you are willing to email me, I can share the link where I've posted pics and reviews of some stringing experiments I've done. There are a few on kevlar/poly hybrid.

10-30-2012, 11:42 AM	#1
travlerajm Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,042	Seeking Poly that combines the best properties of these two strings... I’m looking for my next poly to use as a cross with Kevlar mains. As an aside, I still believe Kevlar/poly hybrid is the most underrated stringbed setup – unmatched control, unmatched spin (more spin than full poly IMO), almost as consistent response as a Kevlar/syn gut hybrid, and low power. Tensions need to be a little lower for best results. The two poly’s I have the most experience with (because I own a reel of each) are WC Silverstring 1.20 and Prince Tournament Poly 16. Interestingly, these two poly’s have very different (if not opposite) characteristics within the poly category: Prince Tournament Poly 16 is extremely slippery, extremely dent resistant, has poor tension stability, and keeps its slipperiness as it wears over time. As a result of these properties, it’s extremely spin-friendly as a cross with Kevlar. And as it wears, the stringbed becomes even more spin-friendly, but directional control drops as the stringbed softens. At the right tension, this is tough to beat (would use it as my go-to cross if it weren't for the tension stability issue). I initially discovered PTP when I was rifling through the reels at the local pro shop, giving the feel test to see which string had the most slippery surface - PTP was far more lubricious than the other poly's in the bin that day. In stark contrast, WC Silverstring is not very slippery for a poly, has medium to low dent resistance for a poly, but has very good tension stability for a poly. As a result, the stringbed is not as spin-friendly when I use SS as a cross with Kevlar, but the stringbed stays more consistent over time due to the better tension stability. I’d like to know what strings might have a combination of the best properties of these two strings? That is: I want a string that's extremely slippery, stays extremely slippery as it wears, and extremely dent-resistant (like Tourna poly), but also with good tension stability (like WC SS). As another aside, I have some background in polymer chemistry. I am curious whether slipperiness and tension stability might be somewhat mutually exclusive properties? Strings with better tension stability tend to have either crosslinks or branched side chains that prevent neighboring polymer chains from sliding by each other so easily. But these features also tend to reduce lubricity. __________________ BLX Blade 98. 13.74oz., 12.55", 370.5 SW. Pre-Stretched Ashaway Kevlar 18g/Zyex Monogut Red 16g, 55 lbs Last edited by travlerajm : 10-30-2012 at 11:45 AM.

10-30-2012, 06:16 PM	#3
TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 545	I never got around to trying it, but the Discho Iontec Salmon is more glassy hard on the surface than SS, and it is reported to have good tension stability. It seems like it would be a more spin friendly cross than SS. It's definitely not as dent resistant as PTP, nothing is! WC Scorpion is a more spin friendly cross than SS, but loses a fair share of control later in its life. Still much more stable than PTP though. __________________ Head TGK 238.1 16x19 a little shortened, 382g, 32.1cm balance, 366sw Ashaway kevlar 18g/WC scorpion 1.22 @ 56 lbs. Last edited by TaihtDuhShaat : 10-30-2012 at 06:20 PM.

10-30-2012, 09:39 PM	#4
2ndServe Semi-Pro Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 706	I liked msv hex as a cross. BTW what kevlar do you use? I'm working my way through my ashaway 17g and 18g reels but it seems to get too loose after 1 hour. Last edited by 2ndServe : 10-30-2012 at 09:51 PM.

10-31-2012, 08:34 AM	#7
JT_2eighty Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,002	Polystar Strike is very slippery, almost a greasy coating to it. It has decent tension hold (above average, but probably not like WC strings, which are among the best around for tension hold). Its texture is not going to impede snap-back, I've used in it many hybrid settings, with other polys and with gut mains. Not sure on the dent resistance issue, I've never really looked at that. The string seems to remain slippery over time, even after the greasy coating wears off. I've not tried PTP, so can't directly compare (I have a reel of Strike if a one-set trade would interest you). (I have tried kevlar main/polystar energy crosses, but they definitely are SOFT, and dent easily I would imagine. Strike is a stiffer animal with much better tension hold than the rest of the polystar family). I also agree with you, kevlar/poly is by far the best "spin at all costs" stringbed... more spin than full poly, gut/poly, etc etc. I just didn't like it on flat groundies & serves. __________________ Austrian PT280s, for almost 20 years. Have yet to find something new with this buttery feel and precision. Last edited by JT_2eighty : 10-31-2012 at 08:36 AM.

10-31-2012, 08:38 AM	#8
JT_2eighty Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,002	Otherwise, have you tried Lux BBO? Contrary to ALU which has bad tension maintenance, I find BBO to hold quite well. __________________ Austrian PT280s, for almost 20 years. Have yet to find something new with this buttery feel and precision.