MTM by Oscar Wegner-1HBH

[Pickle9]

Originally Posted by J011yroger

Show me the money!

J

Oh, so this is what that email is about lol.

So the idea is to hit a tennis ball forward faster/harder/heavier/whatever by moving backwards? I don't claim to be able to hit a ball with anything to be confused with competency... but... huh? Am I missing something?

i'm taking my technically perfect 2hbh and hiding under the bed until this blows over.

[5263]

Originally Posted by sureshs

He confuses the finish which will result in the body rising with a backward movement of the body during the hit, similar to the confusion on the forehand about pulling away before impact instead of the reality of finishing the swing after hitting solidly through the ball.

He's not the one confused on this.
At least you see the result of the pull up and back.

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Pickle9

i'm taking my technically perfect 2hbh and hiding under the bed until this blows over.

That's what she said.

J

[Pickle9]

Originally Posted by J011yroger

That's what she said.

J

i like my tea how i like my women... tied to the bed with a feather boa.

[psv255]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Now it is going to be lots of fun

You called it sureshs

Sorry, I must be missing something here, being new and all -- why are TT admins deleting posts/threads related to MTM/Wegner? Is it purely based on marketing, the fact that it's a form of "product review" on a forum?

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Pickle9

i like my tea how i like my women... tied to the bed with a feather boa.

And that was only my 2nd best line of the night...

J

[treblings]

Originally Posted by psv255

You called it sureshs

Sorry, I must be missing something here, being new and all -- why are TT admins deleting posts/threads related to MTM/Wegner? Is it purely based on marketing, the fact that it's a form of "product review" on a forum?

most of it is probably based on the fact that the arguments tend to become heated and personal. what sureshs likes to call fun, i guess

why mtm, why wegner? the controversy about Oscar Wegner and his teaching goes on for a long time now, way before i joined tt
some of what he teaches is different from mainstream, the video about the
1HBH being proof of that i would say
also, he seems to be quite confident about what he contributed to modern tennis teaching, being a pioneer of teaching how the pros play,etc.
that doesn´t sit well with some posters

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by psv255

You called it sureshs

Sorry, I must be missing something here, being new and all -- why are TT admins deleting posts/threads related to MTM/Wegner? Is it purely based on marketing, the fact that it's a form of "product review" on a forum?

I don't know. I think it has more to do with the tone or nature of some of the threads or posts.

[5263]

Originally Posted by treblings

why mtm, why wegner? the controversy about Oscar Wegner and his teaching goes on for a long time now, way before i joined tt
some of what he teaches is different from mainstream, the video about the
1HBH being proof of that i would say
also, he seems to be quite confident about what he contributed to modern tennis teaching, being a pioneer of teaching how the pros play,etc.
that doesn´t sit well with some posters

Yes, it does go back a ways. I think some of it lingers mostly from 2 former posters.
One was a Braden know all, who tried to crush anyone who disagreed, and
the other would write long pages on details of Oscar's exploits. It may go back
even further, but those guys seemed to draw a big line in the sand on the topics.
I came along as those two battled and then went away. I just like to see MTM
technique represented as one of the approaches to learning and mastering the
game. Some will really have exciting growth and improvement with it. Some
never get the simple, but subtle nuances of it and that is fine, but not a good
reason to try and block others who may really benefit.

There are many like Ash, who do get most of what MTM shares, but don't see
it as the best way to get the info across. I respect that. I don't get all that
MTM states either, but have learned thru experience that often I will get it later,
in the right setting. I initially thought the idea of "waiting" was as silly as
most of the anti Oscar crowd here, but reserved my final judgement due to the
quality of the other things expressed. Then one Sat. morning I found myself in
a doubles match against 2 really outstanding servers that were killing us with
their pace. After a couple of desperate games facing their pace, the silly idea
of waiting came to mind. What a great time to try it with nothing to lose, right?
Getting smoked anyway, lol.

Short story is I tried to wait by believing there was more time and that the pace
was causing me to OVER react. I relaxed and quit rushing, but still got after
the ball. It worked for me so I shared it with my partner, who had noticed how
my rtns had picked up. He did better as well and we found a way to come back
and win that match due to this silly tip that I had thought was ridiculous.
So my intention is that these tips should be available here on this tips forum
for anyone that might be helped. They are the best imo, but clearly not for
everyone.

[boramiNYC]

5263, sounds more like a story of a spiritual leader to me than a teacher who really knows his skill. too much faith is required for promise of something so grand, play like pros. and when so many reasonably sounding people point out a detrimental flaw in the method as exhibited in this thread, there appears no attempt to make any sense and question the validity of his claim. instead you guys are busy defending Oscar. it's this kinda culture that is hurting mtm not a few people trying to take down mtm. if Oscar comes out and explain his stuff with an open mind that what he is saying could be wrong based on clear reasoning, he will earn my respect but as of now mtm by Oscar is not a serious method to master tennis skill, esp 1hbh.

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by bhupaes

Sure, you are entitled to your views, and as gentlemen, we can agree to disagree. Personally, I have benefited a lot from Oscar's teachings. I find his insights absolutely fascinating, since it opens up a way of looking at the game that is unique and rewarding.

when I first encountered Oscar and his work I was impressed by unconventional but many insightful points he makes. he is unusual and he has very sharp eyes and minds. but he has flaws in reasoning ability and some kind of aggrandized self image that defies questioning. I'm sure there can be many capable instructors like you who got inspiration from him but when a teacher loses the ability to examine his beliefs and correct himself, the students should know what to take and what not to take because that teacher is done for good. and being defensive and assuming all the critiques are the enemies will hasten that demise. so it's up to you guys.

[5263]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

5263, sounds more like a story of a spiritual leader to me than a teacher who really knows his skill. too much faith is required for promise of something so grand, play like pros. and when so many reasonably sounding people point out a detrimental flaw in the method as exhibited in this thread, there appears no attempt to make any sense and question the validity of his claim. instead you guys are busy defending Oscar. it's this kinda culture that is hurting mtm not a few people trying to take down mtm. if Oscar comes out and explain his stuff with an open mind that what he is saying could be wrong based on clear reasoning, he will earn my respect but as of now mtm by Oscar is not a serious method to master tennis skill, esp 1hbh.

Those religious references are out of line and uncalled for...especially from you,
the pot calling the kettle, lol. Your posts are the ones that seem more
spiritual in nature and all these reasonable folks are trying to tell you that your
ideas about using the wrist are way off. You don't listen, because of your positive
experience though. I don't listen to these folks either because I have experienced
the benefits of the modern lessons. Those folks don't sound so reasonable when you
know different with them constantly contradicting themselves and each other,
showing a limited understanding on the topics. I have been where they are and
moved past that. Why would I go back from the best tennis I've experienced?

I'm not saying anything about faith anyway...We are talking about having an open
mind. Sort of a sad statement about your religion if tennis tips and a open mind
make you think of your faith imo.

Hopefully your are smart enough to realize about the haters, that it is a catch 22.
If they knew it and understood it, they say there is nothing new, but...
If it's new & different where they don't understand it, they reject it like the plague.
Can't help those with that type mindset can you?

[sureshs]

[boramiNYC]

5263, you know nobody that plays E fh that can generate a lot of pace and spin, do you? but in pro there are. quite a number of them. they are how I model my fh. now if you say there is not much difference b/w these modern E and your modern SW fh, or cannot see the difference, you won't be able to understand.

[5263]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

5263, you know nobody that plays E fh that can generate a lot of pace and spin, do you? but in pro there are. quite a number of them. they are how I model my fh. now if you say there is not much difference b/w these modern E and your modern SW fh, or cannot see the difference, you won't be able to understand.

you are right, I have no idea what you are talking about.
I can only guess that you are laboring under more misinformation,
that the modern Fh has a certain grip and does not include Eastern??
This is a good example of why folks should post on the subjects they know and
not state the case for others.

[sureshs]

boram, don't allow the thread to be diverted away from the bad backhand advice in the video to some argument about your forehand. It is a diversionary tactic.

[bhupaes]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

when I first encountered Oscar and his work I was impressed by unconventional but many insightful points he makes. he is unusual and he has very sharp eyes and minds. but he has flaws in reasoning ability and some kind of aggrandized self image that defies questioning. I'm sure there can be many capable instructors like you who got inspiration from him but when a teacher loses the ability to examine his beliefs and correct himself, the students should know what to take and what not to take because that teacher is done for good. and being defensive and assuming all the critiques are the enemies will hasten that demise. so it's up to you guys.

Hey boramiNYC, I am not an instructor! I'm just another Silicon Valley drone, trying to find on the tennis court the part that seems to be missing from the rest of my life! I prefer to stay in the technical realm, and apply whatever I learn to my game, be it from Oscar or someone else.

[treblings]

Originally Posted by 5263

I initially thought the idea of "waiting" was as silly as
most of the anti Oscar crowd here, but reserved my final judgement due to the
quality of the other things expressed. Then one Sat. morning I found myself in
a doubles match against 2 really outstanding servers that were killing us with
their pace. After a couple of desperate games facing their pace, the silly idea
of waiting came to mind. What a great time to try it with nothing to lose, right?
Getting smoked anyway, lol.

Short story is I tried to wait by believing there was more time and that the pace
was causing me to OVER react. I relaxed and quit rushing, but still got after
the ball. It worked for me so I shared it with my partner, who had noticed how
my rtns had picked up. He did better as well and we found a way to come back
and win that match due to this silly tip that I had thought was ridiculous.
So my intention is that these tips should be available here on this tips forum
for anyone that might be helped. They are the best imo, but clearly not for
everyone.

one of these days i´ll start a thread on ´waiting´ i´ll make sure not to mention certain keywords like mtm so we can discuss it more calmly
watching some of the best players in the world in my agegroup did it for me, seeing how unrushed they play. i´ve since been able to incorporate some of this in my own game, with extraordinary results against players half my age. a few months ago i felt overwhelmed with their pace, lately i seem to thrive on it.
i have a feeling that modern footwork and open stances that i´ve adopted play a part, but don´t have all the answers yet.

[5263]

Originally Posted by treblings

one of these days i´ll start a thread on ´waiting´ i´ll make sure not to mention certain keywords like mtm so we can discuss it more calmly
watching some of the best players in the world in my agegroup did it for me, seeing how unrushed they play. i´ve since been able to incorporate some of this in my own game, with extraordinary results against players half my age. a few months ago i felt overwhelmed with their pace, lately i seem to thrive on it.
i have a feeling that modern footwork and open stances that i´ve adopted play a part, but don´t have all the answers yet.

That sounds very interesting and I look forward to it. I'd like to learn more and
here of your experiences on this. Some players seem to have so much more time
to play the ball.

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by bhupaes

Hey boramiNYC, I am not an instructor! I'm just another Silicon Valley drone, trying to find on the tennis court the part that seems to be missing from the rest of my life! I prefer to stay in the technical realm, and apply whatever I learn to my game, be it from Oscar or someone else.

I could have sworn I read you teaching in some previous thread but mistaken. you seem to have unusually well organized thought process on techniques to be just doing it for fun. I too am a student of the game and bettering myself is one of the things I enjoy most. I also try to have an open mind and I don't care where an idea comes from. but not rejecting unfounded idea is not same as having an open mind.