Low Friction Poly X's For Gut Mains : Softer Alternative to MSV Co-Focus?

[JT_2eighty]

My latest trial... had a set of Luxilon M2 Pro 1.25 that I've never gotten around to using. Had a feeling this could be a great cross string to gut.

Initial impressions are very good: played 2 matches, and the string definitely is nowhere near the stiffness levels of usual Lux strings. Also, as with most Luxilon offerings, the surface is extremely slippery (they use teflon in their strings, right?), but the real kicker is that the comfort is also great.

As I've tried a number of poly crosses to Gut mains (From stiff ALU to buttery soft WC MB), the M2 Pro crosses have a great blend of that "luxilon control", without the usual harshness/lack of feel that I had found with ALU crosses. Not quite as soft or powerful as the MBite, but definitely a nice feeling stringbed that didn't require any break-in or display any noticeable performance drop over the course of two matches. I'll update any changes as they come.

[ChicagoJack]

Hi Jt_2eighty -

Sounds awesome. Great review, thanks for the update!

Jack

[corners]

Originally Posted by Don't Let It Bounce

Howdy, Corners. I'm happy to share any insight I may stumble across, but in truth the main thing I feel in a gut/poly hybrid is the gut. The variations between one poly cross and another seem subtle to me, and the only other time I've tried it was with Silverstring a year ago. That said, I can at least compare it to the full poly job I have in a sister frame.

Hey there, did that polymaster stringjob ever snap? Care to write up that comparison of gut/polymaster and gut/silverstring?

[polytheist]

I would love to hear feedback on a gut/polymaster setup. Polymaster is expensive, but i'm intrigued by the weave angle argument.

[corners]

Originally Posted by polytheist

I would love to hear feedback on a gut/polymaster setup. Polymaster is expensive, but i'm intrigued by the weave angle argument.

Yeah, gut/polymaster II is first on my list of strings to try when the weather warms.

[The Big Kahuna]

I would highly recommend that anyone interested in hybrid string jobs and/or mixing co-poly with gut mains read the article titled "Strings and Spin: Applying What We Know About Copoly" by Joshua Speckman

I have just posted it on another TW discussion thread at: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...394623&page=26

It is one of the best reads on the subject I have seen.

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by ChicagoJack

I've been playing with Co-Focus off and on since last summer, and yeah it's hard to beat. I've recently found something that fits my specific needs a little better. I'm absolutely sure Polyfiber HiTec 18 is more comfortable than Co-Focus 1.18. I'm saying this with certainty because I have been trading off with both set ups, at identical initial tensions (58/53) in identical frames, from the same package of gut mains. A bit more tension loss, but is still right in line with your average poly. That's a good trade off for me. I've got more to try, but it's the one to beat so far.

The Polyfiber is VERY soft poly. Given that it appears you are using a FULL poly hybrid, that makes sense. Using the MSV C0F also makes a bit more sense if you are using GUT mains - which was the theme of this thread, "Low Friction Poly Xs for Gut Mains". With gut, you can get a poly that is TOO soft to blend effectively with the gut IMO.

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by TenFanLA

Gut/LTec 4S > Gut/CoF in softness, playability, longevity in my experience.

Don't forget they LTec is $25. a set and MSV CoF is $8. - that is a huge cost to performance difference. Buy the MSV in a reel and it come out to about $5. a full set ($2.50 for a half set)!!

[scotus]

Originally Posted by JT_2eighty

My latest trial... had a set of Luxilon M2 Pro 1.25 that I've never gotten around to using. Had a feeling this could be a great cross string to gut.

Initial impressions are very good: played 2 matches, and the string definitely is nowhere near the stiffness levels of usual Lux strings. Also, as with most Luxilon offerings, the surface is extremely slippery (they use teflon in their strings, right?), but the real kicker is that the comfort is also great.

As I've tried a number of poly crosses to Gut mains (From stiff ALU to buttery soft WC MB), the M2 Pro crosses have a great blend of that "luxilon control", without the usual harshness/lack of feel that I had found with ALU crosses. Not quite as soft or powerful as the MBite, but definitely a nice feeling stringbed that didn't require any break-in or display any noticeable performance drop over the course of two matches. I'll update any changes as they come.

VS/M2Pro hybrid was my go-to setup for over a year before I switched to another.

This is a very comfortable setup, but M2 Pro had to be strung up as high as regular synthetic gut in order to find the acceptable level of control. (This would be great for you, since you like to keep the tension bet mains and crosses very close)

Also, the tension drop on the M2 Pro was so enormous that I always had to cut it out after 2 hitting sessions.

[ChicagoJack]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

The Polyfiber is VERY soft poly. Given that it appears you are using a FULL poly hybrid, that makes sense. Using the MSV C0F also makes a bit more sense if you are using GUT mains - which was the theme of this thread, "Low Friction Poly Xs for Gut Mains". With gut, you can get a poly that is TOO soft to blend effectively with the gut IMO.

Hi Big Kahuna -

Oh yeah sorry about that. I can see now that I wasn't being very clear. I'm not using a full poly hybrid, and probably never will, my arm is just not having that. My review commentary on the Polyfibre string was comparing two Gut/Poly setups. Two identical racquets, both strung from the same package of gut in the mains, at identical tensions. I had Co-Focus in the crosses of one racquet, and Polyfiber Hitec 18 in the other. That's how I determined with absolute certainty that PolyFibre is more comfortable. This thread has always been, exactly what the title says it is about. The topic and quest not wavered since day one. I'm using Gut/ Co-focus as reference point, just because that's a combination that I'm pretty familiar with, one which I like very much, but just wish were a bit more comfortable. I'm about 90% recovered from a nagging case of TE, and I've become extremely sensitive to string stiffness. My current set up is listed in my signature.

Big thanks for posting the Speckman article! Very cool. I've been posting similar information (including Speckman's "New Physics" article) in the Wilson 99s Racquet thread for weeks now. That thread has become a sort of mecca for all things spin related, and it's become clear to me just how many peeps are unaware of the recent discoveries surrounding low string to string friction.

- Jack

[ChicagoJack]

Originally Posted by polytheist

I would love to hear feedback on a gut/polymaster setup. Polymaster is expensive, but i'm intrigued by the weave angle argument.

Originally Posted by corners

Yeah, gut/polymaster II is first on my list of strings to try when the weather warms.

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

PLEASE let me know how the Yonex plays. I have purchased some, however, the hybrid set-up I have usually lasts 30-40 hours and I have a ways to go before I restring. (edited) ... Maybe the Yonex can be a SOFTER version of the MSV.

I have just placed an order for four string test demos. I will be testing all 4 together, at the same time. All will be going into 4 identical racquets with the same gut mains at equal tensions. I will keep my Gut/Polyfibre Hitec 18 in a 5th racquet, as that's the one to beat for comfort and playability (at least in my book) TW only had Gosen PolyMaster I, which is just a slightly larger diameter of PolyMaster II. I didn't want to pay shipping associated with obtaining the II from another source.

Will update asap.



Jack

[corners]

Originally Posted by ChicagoJack

I have just placed an order for four string test demos. I will be testing all 4 together, at the same time. All will be going into 4 identical racquets with the same gut mains at equal tensions. I will keep my Gut/Polyfibre Hitec 18 in a 5th racquet, as that's the one to beat for comfort and playability (at least in my book) TW only had Gosen PolyMaster I, which is just a slightly larger diameter of PolyMaster II. I didn't want to pay shipping associated with obtaining the II from another source.

Will update asap.



Jack

Rad! Looking forward to your playtest reports Jack!

[polytheist]

Yeah, Cofocus has almost everything, it just needs to be a tad softer and consistent. So we press on for greener pastures.

[polytheist]

any updates?

[The Big Kahuna]

I am still playing with the MSV Co-Focus. It is still the gold standard - especially at the Price to Performance Ratio.

[wmilas]

In my experience the sidewinder is superior to the co-focus. A tad softer, and better tension over 8-10 hours (when I break the gut mains). Same spin.

[polytheist]

Anyone else try Sidewinder? Does the twisted nature eat the gut?

[GlenK]

Still using MSV CoFocus 1.18 as a cross for WNG. It's an amazing cross and by far the best I've tried...

[PKfan1]

I put big hitter silver 17 as a cross for Tonic and I am loving it strung 58/56 in pslgt. It considerably out performs alu power for me and is cheep cheep!

[ChicagoJack]

Just a quick update. I've gotten a feel for some of my demos and thought I'd share. I'll rate each in order from most favored to least favorite in each category. Pretty much any Gut/Poly plays pretty good, so it's like trying to choose your favorite son, a tough task for sure. In all cases my mains are Babolat Tonic 15L. Tension is 54/50, in 4 identical Donnay P1's.

Gut/PolyFire HiTec 18: This super comfy18 was a lifesaver when I was battling my TE, but now that I'm doing better, and have dropped my tension from 58/54 to 54/50, I'm able to hit comfortably with a bit stiffer crosses. I've also noticed that it bags out after the tension drops and it's a bit slow on the snap back, or does not snap back at all. It's for sure a bit tackier to the touch. I think for all of those reasons, control suffers when it ages. Kind of like an expensive Rip Control. Feels great at first, but response gets kind of inconsistent with age. Every once in a while you get a ball that lands long with slightly less spin that feels like a winner when you hit it.

Gut/MB, Gut/Yonex : I'm currently having a tough time choosing between the Yonex and Mosquito Bite, I like them both, with the Yonex maybe a hair more consistent response, but with Mosquito bite a bit more comfy, and slight more spinny. I get a nice catch and release feel with MB, and a bit cleaner feel with the Yonex. However, I'll confess that a few times I've grabbed the wrong racquet after a sit down change over and didn't notice for a few points. Both really similar imo, and both really good crosses. MB was highly recco'd by several forum members who's opinions I trust. The new Yonex string has been getting stellar reviews over at the stringforum. I expected to be pleased and neither string disappointed.

Gut/Co-Focus: Was my go to fave for about 8-10 months last year, and have been trying other options the last 2-3 months. In my mind, it's the gold standard that I compare everything else to. Now that I'm trying it again side by side with other strings at the same time, what seems really obvious to me is that with COF, the rebound angle seems noticeably higher than all the other set ups. Logic dictates that my response should be to close the racquet face slightly. Closing the racquet face would create more spin. (Perhaps that scenario is why this string is so often praised for it's spin potential). But I dunno, right now I am so grooved to a different string, with a different rebound angle, that the COF just seems kind of "wild" feeling to me now. When the balls are popping off high and long, that's when I get nervous about hitting out, and that's when my stroke slows down, not a good series of adjustments. I'm sure that with some time I could find my co-focus groove again, but I'm liking the both the Yonex and the MB just a tad better, and I see the the balls diving down into the court pretty hard in either case.

I'll be demoing Gosen Sidewinder and Gosen PolyMaster next.

Spin:
1. WC Mosquito Bite 18
2. MSV Co - Focus 17L
3. Yonex Poly Pro Tour 16
4. Polyfiber Poly Hitec 18

Comfort:
1. Polyfiber Hitec
2. Mosquito Bite
3. Yonex
4. Co-Focus

Control:
1. Yonex, or Mosquito Bite (Tough Call)
2. Co-Focus
3. Poly Fibre HiTec

-Jack