WORLD NO. 1 (by year)

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by Mustard

I have Trabert as the number 1 amateur player in 1953 and 1955, and narrowly behind Drobny in 1954. As a professional, he did very well to win his 2 French Pro titles.

Not Rosewall in 1953?

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Not Rosewall in 1953?

hoodjem, I rank Trabert, Rosewall and Seixas together No.1 in 1953.

[Dan Lobb]

[quote=BobbyOne;7022904]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Did Trabert ever have a year as no. 1?

Has he ever factored into GOAT discussions?[/QUOTE

Trabert was never No.1 or in a GOAT discussion. He just was best claycourter in 1956 and 1959. And Dan claims that he had a better backhand than Rosewall...

Not my claim, but Hoad's in a 1977 Sports Illustrated interview.
He actually said something like, "You hear so much about Ken's great backhand, but I always feared Trabert's more, as the more dangerous shot. I always felt that I could beat Ken, but if I was not playing well he would probably win, as he was the more consistent player."

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

hoodjem, I rank Trabert, Rosewall and Seixas together No.1 in 1953.

They all won majors that year, but Hoad won five tournaments just below major rank, and was clearly world number one in December.
The Davis Cup was the premiere event in the game at that time, and ONLY HOAD was offered a pro contract at year's end (the final proof of status).

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

They all won majors that year, but Hoad won five tournaments just below major rank, and was clearly world number one in December.
The Davis Cup was the premiere event in the game at that time, and ONLY HOAD was offered a pro contract at year's end (the final proof of status).

Dan, you forget to tell us if Hoad was also best in 1947 and 1432!!!

Hoad was No.5 in 1953.

[BobbyOne]

[quote=Dan Lobb;7024418]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Not my claim, but Hoad's in a 1977 Sports Illustrated interview.
He actually said something like, "You hear so much about Ken's great backhand, but I always feared Trabert's more, as the more dangerous shot. I always felt that I could beat Ken, but if I was not playing well he would probably win, as he was the more consistent player."

All (?) other players said that Rosewall had the best backhand after Budge.

[pc1]

There are always different opinions about players and opinions vary. Rosewall had a great backhand, arguably the greatest ever but of course not everyone who played him thought he had the greatest backhand they ever face although it often seemed that way. Trabert had a fabulous backhand and probably one of the all time greatest also but I've never seen it argued as the greatest backhand ever as Rosewall's or Budge's was.

Arthur Ashe's ranked Rosewall's backhand the best along with Rod Laver.

If Hoad said that about Trabert's backhand, that's fine but I'm sure Rosewall's backhand was very important in so many of Rosewall's victories over Hoad.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by pc1

There are always different opinions about players and opinions vary. Rosewall had a great backhand, arguably the greatest ever but of course not everyone who played him thought he had the greatest backhand they ever face although it often seemed that way. Trabert had a fabulous backhand and probably one of the all time greatest also but I've never seen it argued as the greatest backhand ever as Rosewall's or Budge's was.

Arthur Ashe's ranked Rosewall's backhand the best along with Rod Laver.

If Hoad said that about Trabert's backhand, that's fine but I'm sure Rosewall's backhand was very important in so many of Rosewall's victories over Hoad.

Thanks, pc1 for your statement. I do know that Trabert's backhand was fantastic but still I would rate Rosewall's and Budge's and Borg's and Laver's and Connors' backhand a bit stronger.

Could it be that Lew did not want to praise Ken's backhand that much because he was his friend and doubles partner to avoid the impression he was biased?

I also rank Kovacs' and Nüsslein's backhand very high and maybe above Trabert's.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Dan, you forget to tell us if Hoad was also best in 1947 and 1432!!!

Hoad was No.5 in 1953.

Number five? You have a great sense of humour, my friend.
His record against Trabert: 2 and 0
Rosewall: 2 and 0
Need we continue?

[Dan Lobb]

[quote=BobbyOne;7025201]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

All (?) other players said that Rosewall had the best backhand after Budge.

If Trabert had the time to set up, as he did on clay, I wonder if perhaps Hoad was right. Hoad certainly played these two guys enough.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Number five? You have a great sense of humour, my friend.
His record against Trabert: 2 and 0
Rosewall: 2 and 0
Need we continue?

Read the than "official" rankings of Lance Tingay (in the Collins encyclopedia).

Hoad failed at the majors.

Reading your posts I lose my humour totally...

[BobbyOne]

[quote=Dan Lobb;7025370]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

If Trabert had the time to set up, as he did on clay, I wonder if perhaps Hoad was right. Hoad certainly played these two guys enough.

Pancho G. said:" What Rosewall could do with his backhand, Segura could even do better with his forehand" (sorry for my English). This is the ultimate praise for Rosewall's backhand. And also Gonzalez played Trabert and Rosewall very often.

[kiki]

Bobby, I always imagined a Tilden vs Rosewall match on wood or supreme
Who would win it?

[pc1]

Originally Posted by kiki

Bobby, I always imagined a Tilden vs Rosewall match on wood or supreme
Who would win it?

That would be a heck of a match.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by kiki

Bobby, I always imagined a Tilden vs Rosewall match on wood or supreme
Who would win it?

kiki, Hard to decide. Tilden beat Vines in their first match. Rosewall won nine of his 23 majors indoors (wood) plus the two Dallas finals indoors.

[Kirijax]

Nice to see Wilander's 1983 respected. He wasn't as flashy as McEnroe and "only" had an Australian Open title where he beat both McEnroe and Lendl.

[kiki]

1983 Wilander,e xcept on clay, was below mac´s level.John dominated th two biggest indoor events, which were considered far above the Ao in those days, although Mats win at Melbourne was really impressive.

Mac also took the world´s premiere title, defeating again Lendl in a one sided semifinal.I know Lewis was not a top player, but he played better than the rest and deserved to make it to the final day.

In 1983, John Mc Enroe was the nº 1, and Connors , Wilander and Noah may share the nº 2 position.Maybe with Wilander a bit ahead of the other two.

[krosero]

In the other thread we were talking about how Connors won only 4 official events in 1983, but 9 non-sanctioned events.

That gives him 13 titles of every kind, which puts him past Wilander's official total of 9 titles. Depending on whether Wilander won any non-sanctioned events, it's possible that Connors leads the year with 13 titles of every kind.

He won one Slam event (USO). So did McEnroe (Wimbledon), and so did Wilander (AO).

So if they each had one Slam victory, do Connors' 13 titles put him in the #1 spot for the year?

We usually think of either McEnroe or Wilander as the #1 this year, but we've almost never talked about the non-sanctioned events, and Connors won a ton of them in '83. McEnroe and Lendl each won only 1 non-sanctioned event, and each man won 7 official titles.

Here are the lists of non-sanctioned events:

Connors - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_C...8_man_Field.29

McEnroe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mc...singles_titles

Lendl - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Le...inals_.2862.29

Wilander's Wikipedia page is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mats_Wi...bsite_.2833.29. It does not say whether Mats played non-sanctioned events, but we know he played at least two, and lost to Connors in both of them (Newport Beach and Beaver Creek).

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Number five? You have a great sense of humour, my friend.
His record against Trabert: 2 and 0
Rosewall: 2 and 0
Need we continue?

Just to repeat for 1953 Amateur Rankings:
1) Hoad 2) Trabert 3) Rosewall 4) Seixas
Hoad held a 2 to 0 edge against Trabert and a 5 to 0 edge against Rosewall, won five important tournaments, won two Davis Cup final matches (the most important tennis event of the year), and was the only amateur offered a pro contract by Kramer for the 1954 pro tour.
That looks like number one for the year.

1954 Amateur Rankings:
1) Drobny 2) Seixas 3) Trabert 4) Hoad 5) Rosewall

1955 Amateur Rankings:
1) Trabert 2) Hoad 3) Rosewall
This ranking reflects the classic Davis Cup final match between Hoad and Trabert which drew over 10 million viewers and was NBC's first ever color broadcast

1956 Amateur Rankings:
1) Hoad 2) Rosewall 3) Davidson 4) Anderson 5) Cooper

1957 Pro Rankings:
1) Gonzales 2) Rosewall 3) Sedgman 4) Trabert

1958 Pro Rankings:
1) Hoad 2) Gonzales 3) Rosewall 4) Sedgman 5) Trabert 6) Segura
This reflects Hoad's ranking as the number one money-winner, Ampol world championship, winner of the greatest match ever at Kooyong, and apparent edge against Gonzales when healthy.

1959 Pro Rankings:
1) Hoad 2) Gonzales 3) Rosewall 4) Sedgman 5) Trabert

1960 Pro Rankings:
1) Gonzales 2) Rosewall 3) Hoad 4) Olmedo

1961 Pro Rankings:
1) Rosewall 2) Gonzales 3) Hoad 4) Gimeno

1962 Pro Rankings:
1) Rosewall 2) Hoad 3) Gimeno

1963 Pro Rankings:
1) Rosewall 2) Hoad 3) Laver 4) Gimeno
This ranking reflects Hoad's head-to-head edge against Laver.

1964 Pro Rankings:
1) Laver 2) Rosewall 3) Hoad 4) Gimeno
This ranking reflects Hoad's win of the New Zealand Tour in February against Laver, Rosewall, and Anderson.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by krosero

In the other thread we were talking about how Connors won only 4 official events in 1983, but 9 non-sanctioned events.

That gives him 13 titles of every kind, which puts him past Wilander's official total of 9 titles. Depending on whether Wilander won any non-sanctioned events, it's possible that Connors leads the year with 13 titles of every kind.

He won one Slam event (USO). So did McEnroe (Wimbledon), and so did Wilander (AO).

So if they each had one Slam victory, do Connors' 13 titles put him in the #1 spot for the year?

We usually think of either McEnroe or Wilander as the #1 this year, but we've almost never talked about the non-sanctioned events, and Connors won a ton of them in '83. McEnroe and Lendl each won only 1 non-sanctioned event, and each man won 7 official titles.

Here are the lists of non-sanctioned events:

Connors - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_C...8_man_Field.29

McEnroe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mc...singles_titles

Lendl - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Le...inals_.2862.29

Wilander's Wikipedia page is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mats_Wi...bsite_.2833.29. It does not say whether Mats played non-sanctioned events, but we know he played at least two, and lost to Connors in both of them (Newport Beach and Beaver Creek).

Mc Enroe wins Wimbledon,WCT and Masters. 3 of the top 6 events in that era.50%.No match, not even closed.

Connors won a great USO title ( only a big name in his path, Lendl, while Teltscher and Scanlon were mere second fiddle) but failed at Wimbledon,Masters and had that ignominous defeat at RG against Vasselyn.

Wilander did far better than Jimmy.He also reached the Masters semi but,besides winning the AO with two great wins over Mac and Lendl, reached the FO final.He also played the DC final.

Jimmy was n1 3 in 1983 and he was nº 3 in 1984.He never got anybetter after his great 1982 season.