Djokovic & Adidas

[Fedex]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

What would I know though, I've only worked in global-brand advertising/marketing strategy for 20 years?

Guess we're in the same business although it's a big field.
I own an advertising company.
Which companies were you with and what did you do?

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Wow!
Jr, all this wasted.to make you feel better about yourself and not a single reasonable fact. ....

Now, don't get too emotional about this stupid thread, kid. No need to bang on your keyboard early Saturday morning speculating what kind of pajamas I wear.
Life is much more than doing one thing for 20 years. You should experience some other things

You, sir, are simply hilarious. You calling others egotistical shows an astonishing lack of self-awareness. I hope this continues as it is highly amusing, even if otherwise pointless.

Calling people kid... as you've done many times before is also laughable. It's a sort of ham-fisted attempt at an insult but doesn't come off. Maybe it's a European language crossover thing letting you down or some hick middle-America thing you picked up - either way it's neither here nor there in terms of results. The intent is noted though as (yet) another demonstration of the sort of person you are to deal with.

Nothing I posted was done to make me feel better about myself - it's to see how you fly off the handle when people don't agree with you.

[dr325i]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

You, sir, are simply hilarious. You calling others egotistical shows an astonishing lack of self-awareness. I hope this continues as it is highly amusing, even if otherwise pointless.

Calling people kid... as you've done many times before is also laughable. It's a sort of ham-fisted attempt at an insult but doesn't come off. Maybe it's a European language crossover thing letting you down or some hick middle-America thing you picked up - either way it's neither here nor there in terms of results. The intent is noted though as (yet) another demonstration of the sort of person you are to deal with.

Nothing I posted was done to make me feel better about myself - it's to see how you fly off the handle when people don't agree with you.

Maybe it is that I am 10 years older and more experienced (in life) than you, or maybe that has nothing to do with the Euro language crossover or whatever you call it. Stop "Maybe this or that" guessing as I already pointed out to you -- you are a bad guesser and you do not "read" people well -- makes you sound like a fool...

Stick to what you're good at -- throwing many words put together that in the end -- could be said in 1/5 th ot the length...

You are a kid for me that believes that a few years (certainly NOT 20) of something makes him an expert...

You are guessing in this thread as much as I am -- you may be right, or you may not be right...

However, you still did not explain the Murray markething scheme from Adidas...

PS: Also, Junior, calling me a "Sir"... How do you know I am not a Ma'am?

Oh, to your last point -- where do you see me "fly off the handle..." Do you really believe I got ticked off by your crap? Use google translate and see above what it's all about

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Maybe it is that I am 10 years older and more experienced (in life) than you, or maybe that has nothing to do with the Euro language crossover or whatever you call it. Stop "Maybe this or that" guessing as I already pointed out to you -- you are a bad guesser and you do not "read" people well -- makes you sound like a fool...

I doubt you're a decade older than I. You're just just old before your time - one of those people who just can't help themselves but to assume a dominant, paternal, know-it-all position in discussions in the misguided thinking it somehow makes you an automatic expert on anything you care to open you mouth about.

Originally Posted by dr325i

You are a kid for me that believes that a few years (certainly NOT 20) of something makes him an expert...

You are guessing in this thread as much as I am -- you may be right, or you may not be right...

Your know-it-all attitude knows no bounds. I am and have done everything I say I have. Your ongoing snide attempts at painting yourself as the person in the discussion with the only experience worthy of merit on the topic is laughable. Unless you say otherwise, from what I gather from your career related posts previously, you have no experience in consumer goods marketing. You are a sales rep who worked his way up the ladder. You happen to play and have an interest in tennis - it doesn't make you the expert on sponsorship, brand associations or marketing influence that you, in effect, claim to be.

Originally Posted by dr325i

However, you still did not explain the Murray markething scheme from Adidas...

Horses for courses. They appear to have taken a punt on the wrong horse so far as results and the associated publicity that goes with it since Murray joined and Djokovic left their roster. That said, their investment in Murray is finally paying off.

Originally Posted by dr325i

PS: Also, Junior, calling me a "Sir"... How do you know I am not a Ma'am?.

Because your name is Dan. Regardless, the phrase "You, Sir, are...." is not literal - it's a figure of speech. I'm guessing you knew this already and thought you were being smart. You seem to regularly mistake being smart with being smarmy.

Keep it up. The more of your Sunday you spend replying here the better imo.

[Fedex]

Bobby Jr and dr3251.
This has now turned into a personal ****ging match so no more constructive conversation to be had.
I would suggest you swap emails or telephone numbers and carry on this argument there.
You might actually find you like one another in conversation or personal email where it's harder to throw personal insults and you're not hidden behind a computer keyboard.
Bobby Jr you wrote that you worked in global branding. I'm curious to know what your experience was?
I own an outdoor billboard advertising company specialising mainly in the entertainments, events, arts, culture and fashion sector.
Most of my clients are local government, public notice, universities, festivals, theatre, venues and promoters, and we also run campaigns for Nike, Schuh, T in the Park and other major festivals, and major record company acts such as Oasis, Coldplay, Biffy Clyro, Snow Patrol, Emily Sandie etc.
Were you involved in the actual artistic design of the global brands and/or the marketing?

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by Fedex

Bobby Jr and dr3251.
This has now turned into a personal ****ging match so no more constructive conversation to be had.
I would suggest you swap emails or telephone numbers and carry on this argument there.

Not a bad suggestion.

[Fedex]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

Not a bad suggestion.

You know the funny thing is if we ever had a TW party and met one another personally I bet we'd mostly get on like a house on fire, have lots of interesting conversations and pass on our knowledge, stories and experience over a few drinks with posters we thought we couldn't stand.
Put us on a forum, however, and it's world war 3.

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by Fedex

You know the funny thing is if we ever had a TW party and met one another personally I bet we'd mostly get on like a house on fire, have lots of interesting conversations and pass on our knowledge, stories and experience over a few drinks with posters we thought we couldn't stand.
Put us on a forum, however, and it's world war 3.

And to think, only last year I was in Dundee for a couple of days. What could have been.

[Fedex]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

And to think, only last year I was in Dundee for a 4 days. What could have been.

Ha ha. Send me an email next time. I've never seen what a TW creature looks like. I was meant to hook up with Batz who lives only half an hour away but life is so busy. Cheers.

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by Fedex

Ha ha. Send me an email next time. I've never seen what a TW creature looks like. I was meant to hook up with Batz who lives only half an hour away but life is so busy. Cheers.

It was a 15,000km trip as it was. Probably wont be back anytime soon, but you never know.

[dr325i]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

Not a bad suggestion.

Am with FedEx on this too.
Sorry...

Btw, the Murray explanation I am waiting on is - how come when he was with F Perry and #4, raising star, he wore Adidas and Nike, as he wanted (mainly Adidas).
This tells me that a high ranked, highly marketable tennis star was not sponsored by Adidas. How is that possible??
Why is he so different than Djokovic, oscillating between #1 and #2??
Or, why is he different from Kei??

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Btw, the Murray explanation I am waiting on is - how come when he was with F Perry and #4, raising star, he wore Adidas and Nike, as he wanted (mainly Adidas).
This tells me that a high ranked, highly marketable tennis star was not sponsored by Adidas. How is that possible??
Why is he so different than Djokovic, oscillating between #1 and #2??
Or, why is he different from Kei??

Because he was, as you say, a rising star. Rising stars are nothing compared to stars. Once Federer and Nadal were made complete lock-outs so far as clothing/shoe sponsorship goes the next rung down were a dime a dozen punts - most of which haven't paid off. The companies entering into these arrangements know most deals wont pay off in a huge way but it's the cost of business they have to pay if they want to snare the next big thing which also includes an element of keeping them out of their competition's hands also. Once Murray had some level of success I imagine he got other offers, or just the one, that Fred Perry simply couldn't match (or, in the least, justify in their budget).

Murray was a particularly special case - which ANYONE with any marketing nous could tell you regardless of his results. He was the UK's next big hope.... that made him more valuable for a sponsor than anyone from a backwater European country.

Nishikori, again, it a special case. He's Japan's only (male) tennis player of any note for 15-odd years. That means something, especially in such an insular country as Japan with a huge and unique domestic market. There is no doubt at all that he is paid to wear Adidas shoes. The Uniqlo stores have Adidas shoes on display in the tennis-wear section and on the posters. That is not by any random chance or the result of some free product.

So far as the Murray wearing Nike shoes thing goes, that's neither here nor there - nothing more to it than him requiring specific traits in a shoe for those tournaments. And, more specifically, it's of zero significance in the whole Djokovic wearing Adidas scenario.

[dr325i]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

Because he was, as you say, a rising star. Rising stars are nothing compared to stars. Once Federer and Nadal were made complete lock-outs so far as clothing/shoe sponsorship goes the next rung down were a dime a dozen punts - most of which haven't paid off. The companies entering into these arrangements know most deals wont pay off in a huge way but it's the cost of business they have to pay if they want to snare the next big thing which also includes an element of keeping them out of their competition's hands also. Once Murray had some level of success I imagine he got other offers, or just the one, that Fred Perry simply couldn't match (or, in the least, justify in their budget).

Murray was a particularly special case - which ANYONE with any marketing nous could tell you regardless of his results. He was the UK's next big hope.... that made him more valuable for a sponsor than anyone from a backwater European country.

Nishikori, again, it a special case. He's Japan's only (male) tennis player of any note for 15-odd years. That means something, especially in such an insular country as Japan with a huge and unique domestic market. There is no doubt at all that he is paid to wear Adidas shoes. The Uniqlo stores have Adidas shoes on display in the tennis-wear section and on the posters. That is not by any random chance or the result of some free product.

So far as the Murray wearing Nike shoes thing goes, that's neither here nor there - nothing more to it than him requiring specific traits in a shoe for those tournaments. And, more specifically, it's of zero significance in the whole Djokovic wearing Adidas scenario.

hmm, I am not sure I understand your explanation that Murray, a #4 at the time, a member of the "Big 4", was considered just a Rising star, whereas, lets say, quite a few others, Simon, for example (to stay away from your "special cases") was sponsored by adidas and clearly NOT a potential of Murray...
The significance/parallel is that Djokovic and Murray were/are top athletes, Murray is far more marketable (overall) and yet, just because one is 2 spots above the other you firmply claim the differences...

"Which anyone with Marketing nous..." -- I told you, I have been doing marketing (portion) while you were in the Middle school, so, lets not go there.

This is more to hear your way of thinking...without going back the route of the previous few posts...

[dr325i]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

I doubt you're a decade older than I. You're just just old before your time - one of those people who just can't help themselves but to assume a dominant, paternal, know-it-all position in discussions in the misguided thinking it somehow makes you an automatic expert on anything you care to open you mouth about.

Your know-it-all attitude knows no bounds. I am and have done everything I say I have. Your ongoing snide attempts at painting yourself as the person in the discussion with the only experience worthy of merit on the topic is laughable. Unless you say otherwise, from what I gather from your career related posts previously, you have no experience in consumer goods marketing. You are a sales rep who worked his way up the ladder. You happen to play and have an interest in tennis - it doesn't make you the expert on sponsorship, brand associations or marketing influence that you, in effect, claim to be.

Keep it up. The more of your Sunday you spend replying here the better imo.

BTW, this caught my eye...
WHile I keep repeating OVER and OVER that this whole thread is my opinion, you, somehow, conclude that I claim to be an expert and claim all I say to be "the fact". Do you even realize how egoistic that is, just to prove your own point? THAT is what I meant "to make yourself feel better" part -- you turn things around and "put" words in my mouth just to make yourself feel better...
I advised you NOT to guess, you continue making yourself a fool...
If you must know, obviously bothering you a lot, I was a systems/design engineer, then Applications/Marketing Engineer for the first half of my career (when you graduated from College). Then...shoot me an email for more

What do you do on Sundays?

PS: I promise, no more off the topic stuff

[tistrapukcipeht]

So far, since I joined, reading posts of both of you in many threads I found out:

dr325:
- has said before he knows Djokovic's family
- system design engineer that works with marketing
- is wrong about this topic, but doesn't want to admit

Bobby Jr:
- coached or worked coaching with Tony Roach
- Has worked in the marketing business for a long time.
- Has explained the most probable theories about Djokovic/Adidas sponsorship, which is clearly spot on.


What's right and what's wrong, who is telling the truth who isn't?

[NJ1]

Originally Posted by tistrapukcipeht

So far, since I joined, reading posts of both of you in many threads I found out:

dr325:
- has said before he knows Djokovic's family
- system design engineer that works with marketing
- is wrong about this topic, but doesn't want to admit

Bobby Jr:
- coached or worked coaching with Tony Roach
- Has worked in the marketing business for a long time.
- Has explained the most probable theories about Djokovic/Adidas sponsorship, which is clearly spot on.


What's right and what's wrong, who is telling the truth who isn't?

Thanks for the Cliff notes

[dr325i]

Originally Posted by tistrapukcipeht

So far, since I joined, reading posts of both of you in many threads I found out:

dr325:
- has said before he knows Djokovic's family
- system design engineer that works with marketing
- is wrong about this topic, but doesn't want to admit

Bobby Jr:
- coached or worked coaching with Tony Roach
- Has worked in the marketing business for a long time.
- Has explained the most probable theories about Djokovic/Adidas sponsorship, which is clearly spot on.


What's right and what's wrong, who is telling the truth who isn't?

Thanks for the "non-biased" summary of the thread.
Seems like you and Bobby conveniently pick words that fit your own agenda, and summarize the whole thread.

1) I have worked as an engineer about half of my career, just when bobby got out of college. Then, I was in sales/marketing for the rest of my career.
2) I have met DJ family a few times, parents, brothers, met him twice... Knowing his family means nothing in this thread.
3) I do not mind admiting I am wrong if it can be proven to me (remember, engineer). However, so far, Bobby's been playing a single card - Novak would be crazy to wear the shoes that fit him perfect without getting big $$$$ yet, Murray, was "crazy" for quite a few years. Telling me how crazy it would be to accept the ST/uniqlo deal Limiting him on the shoe deal, yet, Adidas (worth 1000...x) is crazy not to put world's #1 face on their page or have their name on his page.. Maybe it is the sports marketing?

4) I have trained with the top player on these boards who coached at Newcomb's, Sanchez and is currently coaching at Prague's top clubs. He was and is sponsored and has shared some insights.

Again, I am not saying Bobby is wrong or right, and that I have facts. I am just questioning the logic of outdated model shoes, no face on web pages, no single google link on his sponsorship.... And then, the Murray thing that was newer answered....

[tistrapukcipeht]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Thanks for the "non-biased" summary of the thread.
Seems like you and Bobby conveniently pick words that fit your own agenda, and summarize the whole thread.

1) I have worked as an engineer about half of my career, just when bobby got out of college. Then, I was in sales/marketing for the rest of my career.
2) I have met DJ family a few times, parents, brothers, met him twice... Knowing his family means nothing in this thread.
3) I do not mind admiting I am wrong if it can be proven to me (remember, engineer). However, so far, Bobby's been playing a single card - Novak would be crazy to wear the shoes that fit him perfect without getting big $$$$ yet, Murray, was "crazy" for quite a few years. Telling me how crazy it would be to accept the ST/uniqlo deal Limiting him on the shoe deal, yet, Adidas (worth 1000...x) is crazy not to put world's #1 face on their page or have their name on his page.. Maybe it is the sports marketing?

4) I have trained with the top player on these boards who coached at Newcomb's, Sanchez and is currently coaching at Prague's top clubs. He was and is sponsored and has shared some insights.

Again, I am not saying Bobby is wrong or right, and that I have facts. I am just questioning the logic of outdated model shoes, no face on web pages, no single google link on his sponsorship.... And then, the Murray thing that was newer answered....

Sometimes there won't be any explanations for situations, specially in deals that only a few people know about it, that is why Bobby Jr's explanation sound reasonable to what may be the deal.

Players go through shoes faster than most people think, sometimes the deliveries happen to tournament sites sometimes to hotels, their residencies etc... if a player is using older model of shoes it can be for a lot of different reasons, Murray was wearing Nike at the time on clay because he was allowed by Adidas to wear since the Nike may have been a better shoe at the time for Murray, still He was sponsored by Adidas, but Murray is/was a different case.

Djokovic, the number 1 player in the world is getting sponsorship money from Adidas, as any top player get paid to wear shoes from a brand. Being on Adidas site or not doesn't mean much, maybe Adidas doesn't want to put Djokovic's picture there because what most people will see is Uniqlo (which pays him to wear clothes in every photo shoot), and that's the last thing Adidas want is someone like Djokovic to be wearing a competitor's apparel on their site - meaning Adidas will be promoting Uniqlo.

Anyway, Bobby Jr is right on the money with what may just as well be what happened in the "Djokovic's case" .

[dr325i]

Originally Posted by tistrapukcipeht

Sometimes there won't be any explanations for situations, specially in deals that only a few people know about it, that is why Bobby Jr's explanation sound reasonable to what may be the deal.

Players go through shoes faster than most people think, sometimes the deliveries happen to tournament sites sometimes to hotels, their residencies etc... if a player is using older model of shoes it can be for a lot of different reasons, Murray was wearing Nike at the time on clay because he was allowed by Adidas to wear since the Nike may have been a better shoe at the time for Murray, still He was sponsored by Adidas, but Murray is/was a different case.

Djokovic, the number 1 player in the world is getting sponsorship money from Adidas, as any top player get paid to wear shoes from a brand. Being on Adidas site or not doesn't mean much, maybe Adidas doesn't want to put Djokovic's picture there because what most people will see is Uniqlo (which pays him to wear clothes in every photo shoot), and that's the last thing Adidas want is someone like Djokovic to be wearing a competitor's apparel on their site - meaning Adidas will be promoting Uniqlo.

Anyway, Bobby Jr is right on the money with what may just as well be what happened in the "Djokovic's case" .

I like this explanation, especially because only faces showing on Adidas page are fully sponsored by Adidas -- no Kei, no Novak...

On the other hand --Murray was allowed to wear Nikes, Djokovic was not when he did and had to tape the swoosh thing...and it was all over the web news... Does not fully add up...however, I suspect your explanation would be that he was with FP sponsored for clothing...

Why is UNIQLO promoting Adidas (their competitor) in their stores?

[tistrapukcipeht]

Originally Posted by dr325i

I like this explanation, especially because only faces showing on Adidas page are fully sponsored by Adidas -- no Kei, no Novak...

On the other hand --Murray was allowed to wear Nikes, Djokovic was not when he did and had to tape the swoosh thing...and it was all over the web news... Does not fully add up...however, I suspect your explanation would be that he was with FP sponsored for clothing...

Why is UNIQLO promoting Adidas (their competitor) in their stores?

I don't know much of the details, but may be because Uniqlo does not have shoes, but clothing store would not mind showing shoes and may as well be in the contract, it may also be because shoes are small part of the picture or they aren't showed on all pictures, usually when people see a full picture of a tennis player, what they see more ate clothes and tennis racquet.