Calling footfaults is important

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by spot

...We play rec tennis and 90% of people don't get individual coaching where working on a footfaulting problem is easy.

...None of us look at our own feet while serving to see what is really going on.

...Every single time I have seen it called in a match it has always been a total d-bag move after a match already got a bit contentious.

...There are just far more important things to worry about and if someone wants to win that way then I wouldn't be on a team with them.

Fair enough--and the corollary is: Your's is not a team I would want to play on. Could you please tell us what the "the far more important things to worry about" are?

Of course you can't look at the ball toss and your feet at the same time--but you can look down at your feet after the serve and see if you are f-f'ing. Or--if you and your teammates want to help the perp, you could kindly point it out to them and help them fix it--or discover that hearing constructive criticism causes them to come un-hinged. Do you really want to play with border-line psychos?

You are in essence saying, that you and your pals, just want a list of 12 to 20 numbers to call or email for a guaranteed match, rather then take your chances and venturing down to the public tennis center, or ye' ol' club and chance a pick-up game--thereby maybe diversifying your tennis network by playing with new folks. That's my main gripe with the damage league tennis has done to a great sport. Instead of seeing a world of potential players to meet and greet, it's now been narrowed down to a handful, with an occasional invasion of an enemy camp (the other team's territory).

You are in essence saying you have NO aspirations of your team advancing to season finals--because there f-f'ing, will come back to seriously bite you. The roving umpire will come out of nowhere, like the CHP, loudly yelling "foot fault", while the perp is saying: "Who me?". Likely coming un-hinged, arguing the match away or under great pressure trying to fix a relatively very easy issue, f-f'ing, all of a sudden.

Pack up your bags--this will likely cost your buddies the fun and glory of advancing further in the competition--wait until next year. I've seen it and the rest of the team wan't real happy about such a "minor infraction" f-f'ing costing them the match and advancement in the playoffs.

If a "friendly" rec match, has the potential to get "contentious", why provide the ammunition for it to happen by f'-f'ing and playing into their hands. What other rules should not followed willy-nilly at the whim of the individual with the silent consent of buddies?--not-up?, getting grazed by a ball?, calling out the score only when you're ahead?, waiting to call a let when a ball rolls on the court until you lose the point?--which are the important rules and which are the ones that can be bent or ignored and who gets to decide?

Tennis is a relatively simple game with rules that generally are easy to understand without a supreme court clerk's interpretation. Why not learn them and teach them to your teammates? Team practices would be an ideal time to work on this stuff. If the perp can't handle it then, do you really want to hang-out with this type of individual--are you that hard-up for a list of people to play with?

[sureshs]

Yesterday I stood on the side and watched a 4.0 doubles match (social). After a game was over, I told the server that every one of his serves was a FF. He was caught by surprise and just stood there staring at me, and I thought oh oh time to make a fast retreat. Then his partner "comes out"" and says I have seen you FFing all the time, and then proceeds to explain in detail how his foot comes forward and catches the line before the serve!

His partner had bottled it all in before this and he let it all come out when given the opportunity.

Mission accomplished.

[spot]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

You are in essence saying, that you and your pals, just want a list of 12 to 20 numbers to call or email for a guaranteed match, rather then take your chances and venturing down to the public tennis center, or ye' ol' club and chance a pick-up game--thereby maybe diversifying your tennis network by playing with new folks. That's my main gripe with the damage league tennis has done to a great sport. Instead of seeing a world of potential players to meet and greet, it's now been narrowed down to a handful, with an occasional invasion of an enemy camp (the other team's territory).

This is actually pretty funny because of how far from reality it has been for us. ALTA lets you have far more flexibility creating teams so we had enough people that wanted to join that we split the team. Then it got popular enough that we split the team again. Now we have 3 teams that all practice and play together, have 6 to 8 courts on practice nights, and always have a big group going out for drinks afterward and are sponsored by a bar. We have players from guys who played D1 to guys who picked a racquet for the first time after the age of 30. I have no clue where you get the idea that "not caring about footfaults == less willing to meet people in tennis" In fact I'd guess that it is strongly the opposing direction.

You are in essence saying you have NO aspirations of your team advancing to season finals--because there f-f'ing, will come back to seriously bite you.

Ridiculous. I said that I wouldn't have someone on my team who consistently wanted to call footfaults on the opponents. If an objective umpire calls it then I have no problems with it. If the opponent calls one of my players on it I'd hope they would just move back.

EVERY SINGLE TIME that I have seen someone calling footfaults in a match its because they were losing and were trying to jack with the opponents. I do not want to be in that group and I wouldn't have people on my team who wanted to win that way.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by spot

EVERY SINGLE TIME that I have seen someone calling footfaults in a match its because they were losing and were trying to jack with the opponents. I do not want to be in that group and I wouldn't have people on my team who wanted to win that way.

Every single time Federer has challenged using Hawk-Eye is when he would have lost the point.

So what?

It only matters if the FF happened. Other considerations are not relevant.

[tennis tom]

=spot

...ALTA lets you have far more flexibility creating teams so we had enough people that wanted to join that we split the team.

...always have a big group going out for drinks afterward and are sponsored by a bar.

...If an objective umpire calls it then I have no problems with it. If the opponent calls one of my players on it I'd hope they would just move back.

I have no idea what alta is--glad you found an alternative tennis universe that fits your needs.

You found your priorities--drinking--not following the rules--hope you have a DUI attorney in your large group.

HOPE springs eternal, maybe your player will move back--or maybe it will get into his head and get contentious.

[OrangePower]

I agree with Spot here.

If footfaults were consistently enforced, that I would be all for that. It's part of the rules after all. However, because of the difficulty of seeing ff's from across the net, they are rarely if ever called. So as it turns out, when they are called, it's usually an attempt at gamesmanship.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

I have no idea what alta is--glad you found an alternative tennis universe that fits your needs.

You found your priorities--drinking--not following the rules--hope you have a DUI attorney in your large group.

HOPE springs eternal, maybe your player will move back--or maybe it will get into his head and get contentious.

Actually, in Atlanta, USTA is the alternate tennis universe. ALTA is the premier tennis system in the Atlanta area.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

...because of the difficulty of seeing ff's from across the net, they are rarely if ever called. So as it turns out, when they are called, it's usually an attempt at gamesmanship.

It's no more difficult to see a foot-fault then to see whether a ball is in or out, especially by the net man. A flagrant one can be easily seen from anywhere on the court--that's why it's flagrant. A human foot is much larger then a tennis ball and remains on the line longer then the hit by a ball. Most players have no problem calling a ball out, (but some do), it shouldn't be any different calling a foot-fault--but obviously it is or we wouldn't be discussing it here.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

Actually, in Atlanta, USTA is the alternate tennis universe. ALTA is the premier tennis system in the Atlanta area.

Maybe alta should run league tennis and give usta a run for it's--er--MY money--competition is good--it reveals character.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

It's no more difficult to see a foot-fault then to see whether a ball is in or out, especially by the net man. A flagrant one can be easily seen from anywhere on the court--that's why it's flagrant. A human foot is much larger then a tennis ball and remains on the line longer then the hit by a ball. Most players have no problem calling a ball out, (but some do), it shouldn't be any different calling a foot-fault--but obviously it is or we wouldn't be discussing it here.

I'm having trouble understanding this post. When calling a ball in or out, you are calling on your side of the net. How can you compare that to calling a foot fault from 78 feet away?

[spot]

Its tougher to call foot faults than line calls not only because of the distance involved but also because you have to choose between playing tennis and enforcing the rules. For singles in order to call a footfault you have to stop looking at the ball and instead look at the opponents feet. This is why reasonable people choose not to call footfaults in recreational matches- you have to compromise your own tennis playing in order to try and win the point through a technicality. Personally I would rather just play tennis.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

It's no more difficult to see a foot-fault then to see whether a ball is in or out, especially by the net man. A flagrant one can be easily seen from anywhere on the court--that's why it's flagrant. A human foot is much larger then a tennis ball and remains on the line longer then the hit by a ball. Most players have no problem calling a ball out, (but some do), it shouldn't be any different calling a foot-fault--but obviously it is or we wouldn't be discussing it here.

Um, no.
1. FF is on other side of the court. Line calls you are making on your side of the court.
2. Judging FF requires depth perception along far baseline, which is hard.
3. When your team is getting ready to receive, even if you are the net man, you are (or rather should be) watching the toss to gauge the serve, and watching the opposing net person to see what he is doing... not looking at the server's feet.
4. Um, and how about singles?
5. Can you really tell from across the net whether the server is getting any airtime or not, and judge whether the feet are actually on the ground at the moment of impact? If the feet are even half an inch in the air after crossing the baseline up to the point of contact, that's a legal serve.

I agree that a flagrant FF can be seen from across the court. Unfortunately there is no clear definition of what constitutes a flagrant FF. That's what makes the whole thing a source of gamesmanship.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Um, no.
1. FF is on other side of the court. Line calls you are making on your side of the court.

What can I say, I guess I'm cursed with having better then average vision.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

What can I say, I guess I'm cursed with having better then average vision.

Yeah, Brendan Evans used to make that argument on the pro tour when he disagreed with a line call. "I have had surgery, I have 20/10 vision". Well, just because you have great vision doesn't mean that you see the ball correctly (or foot).

[Sumo]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Of course you can't look at the ball toss and your feet at the same time--but you can look down at your feet after the serve and see if you are f-f'ing.

Congrats....with one sentence you were able to lose all credibility on this issue.
Anyone who can tell if they are foot faulting by looking at their feet after the serve has a TERRIBLE serve and won't be gaining any advantage by foot faulting. Why waste the effort?

Are you the guy who calls every touch foul when playing pickup bball? Because those guys are fun to have around.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by Sumo

Congrats....with one sentence you were able to lose all credibility on this issue.

LOL. I'm glad someone finally said it (even though I'm sure we were all thinking it).

[sureshs]

It is very difficult to tell accurately if there was a FF or not. I think we can all agree on that.

FF calls during a league match will cause tension. We can all agree on that.

At the same time, with half the adult players FFing, the status quo is just not acceptable.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Sumo

Congrats....with one sentence you were able to lose all credibility on this issue.
Anyone who can tell if they are foot faulting by looking at their feet after the serve has a TERRIBLE serve and won't be gaining any advantage by foot faulting. Why waste the effort?

Are you the guy who calls every touch foul when playing pickup bball? Because those guys are fun to have around.

A "gotch-ya'" moment. Oh boo-hoo, I'm SO busted, I've lost credibility at a tennis message board--I'll just have to go down to the hot-tub and wash away the shame of it all. I guess you never practice your serve, if you did you could very easily look down at your foot to check if you are foot-faulting--it is humanly possible to serve a ball and down look at your foot--unless you are so out of balance from chasing your errant toss that you would fall on your face.

I was just working with a woman the other day on breaking her of the foul habit. I would call her on, it where-about she immediately looked down at her foot and saw she was doing it--something she was totally unaware of. She then over-compensated by stepping back too far. I told her to only move back about four inches which in her case remedied her f-f'ing bad habit.

I think you're talking about basketball, I haven't played that for probably 20 years. I've learned that most tennis players who sprained their ankles did so playing basketball--like Todd Martin. I'm saving myself for tennis thank you. I guess now that I've lost all my cred here, I'll have to refund you all your money for all the lessons.

Adios amigos!

[kylebarendrick]

What is a "flagrant" footfault? That is easy. It is a footfault so obvious that it can be called with certainty 78 feet away.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by sureshs

It is very difficult to tell accurately if there was a FF or not. I think we can all agree on that.

FF calls during a league match will cause tension. We can all agree on that.

At the same time, with half the adult players FFing, the status quo is just not acceptable.

Agreed. Time to invent a FF-detection device.