What to do with "stallers"

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

No it's not a valid tactic as the rule is that the server has to wait for the receiver to be ready.

It may not be a valid tactic but when you nail them in the back it just feels oh so good.

[crosbydog]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

Also when talking about the third set tiebreak, do you mean a third set tiebreak, or a 10 point match tiebreak in lieu of a third set?

10 point in lieu of third set

[crosbydog]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

What section was this? I have a very hard time believing there was not a tournament referee available.

Missouri Valley - there was also no official AND no tournament director a week ago when this same opponent walked off the court when an opponent called her on foot faults

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by crosbydog

Missouri Valley - there was also no official AND no tournament director a week ago when this same opponent walked off the court when an opponent called her on foot faults

Ok. Now, definitely something is wrong with your posts. First of all, unless it was a "novice" tournament, there's no way there was not one tournament referee. Also, there can't be a USTA tournament without a Tournament Director OR a Referee.

Finally, from what you put in your original post and the way you worded it, there's nothing wrong with what the player did against your daughter.

[goran_ace]

I also see nothing wrong with what your daughter's opponent did. Juniors often have a tendency to 'play fast' and are coached to slow it down in between points. Walk to the back fence/tarp between every point or count to 10. Mentally reset before the next point.

Even if there were an official there, good luck getting them to do anything about it. In all of my years of playing competitive tennis I have never seen a penalty issued for taking too much time in between points. The most I've seen is a verbal warning (more like 'hurry it up, please') if taking too much time during changeovers, but never in between points.

I'll give the opponent the benefit of the doubt that she as just gathering herself and it's not gamesmanship, but gamesmanship does exist with more experienced tournament players. If that's the case, experience teaches you how to speed up or slow down play to mess with your opponent, but experience also teaches you how to not let stuff like that bother you.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by goran_ace

I also see nothing wrong with what your daughter's opponent did. Juniors often have a tendency to 'play fast' and are coached to slow it down in between points. Walk to the back fence/tarp between every point or count to 10. Mentally reset before the next point.

Even if there were an official there, good luck getting them to do anything about it. In all of my years of playing competitive tennis I have never seen a penalty issued for taking too much time in between points. The most I've seen is a verbal warning (more like 'hurry it up, please') if taking too much time during changeovers, but never in between points.

I'll give the opponent the benefit of the doubt that she as just gathering herself and it's not gamesmanship, but gamesmanship does exist with more experienced tournament players. If that's the case, experience teaches you how to speed up or slow down play to mess with your opponent, but experience also teaches you how to not let stuff like that bother you.

Even if it was gamesmanship, doesn't mean that there was anything illegal about what she was doing. Almost every match has some kind of gamesmanship played into it in one form or another.

[crosbydog]

[quote=woodrow1029;7033203]Ok. Now, definitely something is wrong with your posts. First of all, unless it was a "novice" tournament, there's no way there was not one tournament referee. Also, there can't be a USTA tournament without a Tournament Director OR a Referee.

Well there was no referee at this tournament nor was there at the one a week ago ( a "Challenger" tournament at the Missouri Athletic Club) where because there was no tournament director present players had to check in with the cashier of the pro shop. Some parents contacted the St Louis District USTA office.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by crosbydog

Well there was no referee at this tournament nor was there at the one a week ago ( a "Challenger" tournament at the Missouri Athletic Club) where because there was no tournament director present players had to check in with the cashier of the pro shop. Some parents contacted the St Louis District USTA office.

Maybe you need to contact the USTA Missouri Valley section to find out why they are not having referees at these tournaments then, considering it's a requirement.

[woodrow1029]

I see the issue. You also have to give complete information. Like giving the information that this was not a main site, but an alternate site.

[JLyon]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

I see the issue. You also have to give complete information. Like giving the information that this was not a main site, but an alternate site.

Even if an alternate there still should be a deputy referee assigned to the site correct? As well as some semblance of desk staff

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by JLyon

Even if an alternate there still should be a deputy referee assigned to the site correct? As well as some semblance of desk staff

There should be, but I don't know if that is a rule that there must be. In NorCal I believe it's a rule that each site must have a referee/deputy referee and one official per every 8 courts (I think that's it). I don't know about other sections.

But there for sure has to be a referee.

[coaching32yrs]

There is nothing wrong with what the opponent did. She has every right to 8-10 seconds between the points.

[Woolybugger]

She will have to learn ways to deal with it.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

Ok. Now, definitely something is wrong with your posts. First of all, unless it was a "novice" tournament, there's no way there was not one tournament referee. Also, there can't be a USTA tournament without a Tournament Director OR a Referee.

Finally, from what you put in your original post and the way you worded it, there's nothing wrong with what the player did against your daughter.

Maybe, there can't be....

But, I have been to plenty of sectional tournaments, where the tournament ran late
and the TD and ref left....... Score was reported to the kid who was holding down the front desk.

I did complain. And it still happens.....

I am going to say this is one of the biggest issues in junior tennis, lack of refs and/or TD's interested in running a good tournament. And I am going to guess it must be about the $.
The TD's probably don't make a lot of money running the tournaments and I know the refs are not paid well ( especially when you factor in gas money).

I do wish the USTA would help fund some of the tournaments with money for more refs.

I don't hear parents complaining about the cost of a tournament, but I do hear them complaining about the cost of a tournament not being worthwhile if it is not properly equipped to do a good job....

Lastly, the reason I don't post on this board much anymore is all the snarky comments.
Just because you have never been to a tournament where the ref disappears,
doesn't make it impossible.

It is a big country, every tournament is not a cookie cutter excellent event.
Maybe, there was a ref and maybe he/she was taking a long lunch break.......

I was at a national tournament two years ago,
one ref went to lunch and the other one got lost in the bathroom......

I have been to two supernats where they had replacement refs and they didn't know the rules.

I have been to tournaments where the ref checks their texts during the matches.

I could go for a while, but you get the idea.

[woodrow1029]

Originally Posted by tennis5

Maybe, there can't be....

But, I have been to plenty of sectional tournaments, where the tournament ran late
and the TD and ref left....... Score was reported to the kid who was holding down the front desk.

I did complain. And it still happens.....

I am going to say this is one of the biggest issues in junior tennis, lack of refs and/or TD's interested in running a good tournament. And I am going to guess it must be about the $.
The TD's probably don't make a lot of money running the tournaments and I know the refs are not paid well ( especially when you factor in gas money).

I do wish the USTA would help fund some of the tournaments with money for more refs.

I don't hear parents complaining about the cost of a tournament, but I do hear them complaining about the cost of a tournament not being worthwhile if it is not properly equipped to do a good job....

Lastly, the reason I don't post on this board much anymore is all the snarky comments.
Just because you have never been to a tournament where the ref disappears,
doesn't make it impossible.

It is a big country, every tournament is not a cookie cutter excellent event.
Maybe, there was a ref and maybe he/she was taking a long lunch break.......
I was at a national tournament two years ago,
one ref went to lunch and the other one got lost in the bathroom......

What exactly was snarky about me saying that there's no way a USTA sanctioned tournament can be held without a Tournament Director and Referee? The OP said that there was no referee and no tournament director at a tournament, which just can't happen (until I did my own research and found out it was at an alternate site, where it is possible that there wasn't an official at that site).

This goes back to what was discussed in a couple of other threads last week about parents at junior tournaments. I would be willing to bet that if someone went up to the OP's daughter and asked her if she was bothered by her opponent going back to the fence for 8-10 seconds, she would say no (that is if she even noticed what was happening, or that is if it even happened at all)! Most of the time, what parents complain about, doesn't even happen at all. If it does happen, the kids don't even notice it, and it's not worth complaining about.

[Tennishacker]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

This goes back to what was discussed in a couple of other threads last week about parents at junior tournaments. I would be willing to bet that if someone went up to the OP's daughter and asked her if she was bothered by her opponent going back to the fence for 8-10 seconds, she would say no (that is if she even noticed what was happening, or that is if it even happened at all)! Most of the time, what parents complain about, doesn't even happen at all. If it does happen, the kids don't even notice it, and it's not worth complaining about.

How can you be so clueless.

Walking back to the fence after every point is taught to disrupt your opponent.

Its sad that kids are taught to use unsportsmanship tactics to win matches.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

What exactly was snarky about me saying that there's no way a USTA sanctioned tournament can be held without a Tournament Director and Referee? The OP said that there was no referee and no tournament director at a tournament, which just can't happen (until I did my own research and found out it was at an alternate site, where it is possible that there wasn't an official at that site).

This goes back to what was discussed in a couple of other threads last week about parents at junior tournaments. I would be willing to bet that if someone went up to the OP's daughter and asked her if she was bothered by her opponent going back to the fence for 8-10 seconds, she would say no (that is if she even noticed what was happening, or that is if it even happened at all)! Most of the time, what parents complain about, doesn't even happen at all. If it does happen, the kids don't even notice it, and it's not worth complaining about.

There are two issues here, and I only addressed one of them.

So, let's start with the first issue, the poster's issue of the junior stalling for time.
What else will bother juniors - the long strategic bathroom break, the come on after every point, hooting for double faults, etc, etc, etc.
All issues of gamemanship - ok with some folks here on the board.
I think juniors should just work on their game and technique, and that would be a better long term strategy.
And just ignore all the other stupidity.

Second, I addressed the lack of TD and ref.
Yes, technically they should be there.
Just like technically you shouldn't cut off the car in front of you or speed.

But, many times, they disappear, or it gets late and they go home.

Look it is a thankless job being a ref.
You get paid very little and some of the junior boys are completely disrespectful to boot.

I have seen great refs who write up code violations for throwing racquets and cursing,
and I have seen others who are too busy talking to another ref or on their blackberry......

My feeling is if you are going to take a job, do it well.

[crosbydog]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

I see the issue. You also have to give complete information. Like giving the information that this was not a main site, but an alternate site.

It was the one and ONLY main site!

[crosbydog]

[quote=woodrow1029;. I would be willing to bet that if someone went up to the OP's daughter and asked her if she was bothered by her opponent going back to the fence for 8-10 seconds, she would say no (that is if she even noticed what was happening, or that is if it even happened at all)! Most of the time, what parents complain about, doesn't even happen at all. If it does happen, the kids don't even notice it, and it's not worth complaining about.[/QUOTE]

How much was that bet for?
My daughter did notice and it did get to her. My daughter did a retaliatory facing the back fence for an extended period while the opponent was doing the same. When the opponent turned around and saw my daughter copying her she turned back around to continue facing the back fence. Ridiculous!

You should have such great skills that you don't have to rely on that c**p.

[10ismom]

Originally Posted by crosbydog

How much was that bet for?
My daughter did notice and it did get to her. My daughter did a retaliatory facing the back fence for an extended period while the opponent was doing the same. When the opponent turned around and saw my daughter copying her she turned back around to continue facing the back fence. Ridiculous!

You should have such great skills that you don't have to rely on that c**p.

I saw that kind of drama before. Girls must have been taught to stall or they just copy Sharapova.

Boys probably will just walk slowly to get the towel. They are less likely to talk to the fence. My daughter talks to her strings to calm herself.....not the fence.