Video of my serve: help me stop "arming" it.

[lendl1986]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDo4mthLBvA

Coming back after 12 months off due to a shoulder injury, so it's imperative that maximize use of my legs, hips, and shoulders...and not my arm, to get adequate racquet speed on serves.

But after maybe 50 serves today, I'm quote sore.

This image worries me:



Seems my elbow should be "tucked" tighter and the swing should be more "upward" and driven by my legs.

What do you see?

[LeeD]

Bend you knees much more, to use them.
Turn much more sideways to your target, so you twist into the serve.

[boramiNYC]

your torso in general appears very rigid. stretch the muscles in the torso and start moving those muscles. all the muscles attached to shoulder girdle, spine, neck, and hip. do some yoga or tai chi if you don't wanna study anatomy.

[corners]

Sore after 50 serves is kind of worrisome. Be careful. If it doesn't feel nice and easy take a break and reassess. I guess that's what you're doing now. A couple things - leg drive and yadda yadda can wait. I think you should put down the racquet and just throw some tennis balls for a while. It looks to me like your throwing mechanics are off. They were probably off before you got injured, which is probably why you got injured.

I would just go out and throw some tennis balls around the court. Some high, some long, some into the ground in front of the net. Just work on a smooth, effortless throw. Once you get it all flowing you can work on getting some snap into the motion.

That should get you ready to fix your shoulder over shoulder cartwheel, which looks broken. Read this: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showp...6&postcount=36

Once you've got that down then start throwing balls from your serving stance. This works for me when my motion gets ****ed up.

Finally, your toss isn't far enough into the court which will cause shoulder impingement. Check out the frame at impact. See how the line from right hip to right shoulder to right hand is almost vertical? Now go to the same frame of some good server that you admire. Since you use a platform stance it may as well be Fed. See how his right hip to right shoulder to right hand line is angled into the court? He's really throwing his racquet into the ball with good leverage, while you appear to be hacking up at it using just your shoulder.

You've really got to go back to square one, and if I were you I would start with throwing tennis balls. Hope that helps.

[anubis]

I don't mean to be too simple about this, but here's your answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqj1F-DCskM

Picture perfect example of how to use your entire body while serving. can't really explain it any better than that

[guitarplayer]

Your upper body....shoulders aren't turning at all on the backswing. Turn them to the right and then release them into the swing.

[Power Player]

Looks like you are doing the waiters tray with the wrist as well. You want your palm facing the sidefence in trophy pose and then facing your ear on the swing up.

Definitley turn the shoulders as stated.

[JW10S]

In my view your problem is the abbreviated take back is contributing to your arming the ball. There's no rhythm and no connection between your upper and lower body.

BTW, how much did you pay that guy to lean on the cart and toss you balls?

[ATP100]

Show the receiver your back when you throw up the ball, this will help.

[sabala]

You're not swinging edge on at the ball - can really see this in the slo mo at the end. Your racket face is completely parallel to ground when it should be perpendicular to ground...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QLLwCrQKLI

Try some serving and actually try to hit the ball with the edge of the frame to get the feel.

[NLBwell]

Geez guys, you are missing the easy stuff.
For practice (you can initially do this against the fence):
1) put the inside of your arm against your ear
2) put the head of the racket down your back.
3) swing from there
you can do this first practice swinging with the racket edge hitting the fence
then, after a few times swing from the initial position with the forearm and wrist turning during the motion so that the stringbed would hit the fence/ball.
This should give you a good idea of the "backscratch" position.

Think of it as a whip or a catapult with a lot of hinge points.
Your motion is more of a shove, with the elbow never getting in postion to lead the forearm/wrist/racket.

Originally Posted by lendl1986

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDo4mthLBvA

Coming back after 12 months off due to a shoulder injury, so it's imperative that maximize use of my legs, hips, and shoulders...and not my arm, to get adequate racquet speed on serves.

But after maybe 50 serves today, I'm quote sore.

This image worries me:



Seems my elbow should be "tucked" tighter and the swing should be more "upward" and driven by my legs.

What do you see?

First of all, wake your pro up from his nap, and tell him to teach you some stuff..Until you get out of the this face up, waiter position, you will never develop a decent serve. If he can't see this, or come up with some solutions, find someone else... This is basic stuff. You need to correct this racquet work before worrying about leg drive. In fact, adding significant GRF with this hand position may put MORE stress on your shoulder.

[charliefedererer]

Plenty of good advice above.

Video to teach deeper racquet drop (notice how far to the right side of the body the racquet drop is:
McCraw Serve Fundamentals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuIgT...eature=related

Pronation practice to incorporate that deeper racquet drop into a proper arm motion:
McCraw explaining a serve pronation exercise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iONY6fcqZGg


Robin Soderling shows the deep knee bend "archer's bow" configuration (with your front hip well over the baseline) you will need to use your whole body to power your serve:
Robin Söderling serve slowmotion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a56pvP1i6x8

The above clip of Soderling is a very short version of the information in this video
Nick Bollettieri-Sonic Serve.wmv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajoZ0f7hw-A


One thing that confuses many is WHEN to "bend the knees" and "go into an archer's bow".



Notice as Pete releases the ball in pic 1 he has only a small knee bend (but do NOT straighten your legs like too many do as you release the ball up - it becomes too hard to straighten your legs as the toss goes up, then have to get even this slight bend in the knees as you release the ball).
It is while his tossing arm is pointed straight up that he "bends his knees" (you will feel it more as lowering your whole body weight, as in a squat.)
Lowering your body weight will let you stay in balance as this is like a controlled fall - almost like sitting down but with your tossing arm straight up, as seen in pics 2-8.

Notice that it is fairly late, in pics 8,9 that Pete forms the archer's bow shape.
As a server, what you are trying to do is get your hitting shoulder as close to the ground as possible - but as you do it YOU HAVE TO LET YOUR FRONT HIP SWING OUT OVER THE BASELINE to maintain your balance.

If you can get into this position in your trophy pose with your knees very bent and your body in a bow shape ...
... then all you have to do is push off from your legs as hard as possible and reverse your bow shape UP and at the ball to get your body into the serve.


So I urge you to practice this motion at home without a racquet to get comfortable with bending your knees and getting into a bow shape ...
so you can explode out of this position to power your serve.

(If you wait until you get to the tennis court to try and add this into your serve, you will feel way to rushed, and it will take much longer to get it.)


Good luck!

[JohnB]

You seem to serve very upright. I think if you would bent your upper body more sideways before impact, like Safin in the link, you're allowing your hittingarm to move more freely around your body instead of heaving to use mostly your shouldermuscle to get the racket up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhrfqjokS_Q

[lendl1986]

TTW delivers again!

Thank you to every one who took the time to respond. You're not just helping me...you're helping lots of other members with serve issues.

I'll get to work and post a new video soon.

PS: My instructor was focused on my wandering ball toss. He certainly mentioned more flaws, but we're trying to keep things simple and repeatable.

[UCSF2012]

Something tells me you've never thrown a baseball in your life. Buy a mitt and throw a few around with your son.


The most correct advice given belongs to NLBwell. I'll just rephrase it....bend your elbow. When you begin the racquet throw, you UNbend your elbow. What you're doing is rotating your shoulders instead of throwing your arm. That's why you jacked up your shoulder in the first place.


I honestly believe some of you guys grew up without a proper childhood. I do see myself as somewhat of a jock, esp compared to all the nonathletic people out there. I think throwing a baseball, catching a frisbee, playing dodgeball,....etc are part of a proper childhood for boys.


Study this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDgMXFBHLP0

[spacediver]

erm i think it's equally important for our daughters to develop these athletic skills too.

[tenniswhisperer]

Here is a video of the "softening process". Without a firm, flexible wrist you will begin to get sore after 50 balls... you're putting too much stress of on other areas of your body

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ic0EW8Jhc&feature=plcp

[Chas Tennis]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...C/ivanovic.swf

There is a breakdown of the serve with sound after the video.

(Dr Elliott, sometimes called 'Mr Internal Shoulder Rotation', caves to convention and only uses the term 'pronation' not mentioning IRS at all. ........)

[tricky]

The sock drill helps train you to treat the service motion as like a pitching/throwing motion, which helps you avoid arming it.

Take a long sock with one or two tennis balls in it, and practice your service motion. Then swing a normal racquet and observe differences. You can do NLBwell's suggestion and start from the halfway point of the backswing.